2010 Ls460 Awd Vibration

[Beniffnee]

I bought a 2010 LS 460 AWD in April 2010. I've been back to the dealer 4 times for tire balancing since I detect a vibration. They applied "Road Force" balance to the tires which seemed to help a little but an annoying vibration, most evidnet at 70-75 MPH persists but I can feel it at other speeds too. The car 4800 miles.

A bottle of water will reveal the vibration while driving on a smooth road. Also, the headrest will transfer the vibration to my hand if I place the back of my hand against the passenger's headrest while driving. I'm begining to think this a chracteristic of the car since I am reading similar stories from others. I thought for $72K I would not be experiencing that kind of thing but go figure. I'm still considering my options. Has anyone experienced this with the LS 460? Any resovled cases?

[lex460]

I bought a 2010 LS 460 AWD in April 2010. I've been back to the dealer 4 times for tire balancing since I detect a vibration. They applied "Road Force" balance to the tires which seemed to help a little but an annoying vibration, most evidnet at 70-75 MPH persists but I can feel it at other speeds too. The car 4800 miles.

A bottle of water will reveal the vibration while driving on a smooth road. Also, the headrest will transfer the vibration to my hand if I place the back of my hand against the passenger's headrest while driving. I'm begining to think this a chracteristic of the car since I am reading similar stories from others. I thought for $72K I would not be experiencing that kind of thing but go figure. I'm still considering my options. Has anyone experienced this with the LS 460? Any resovled cases?

Couple of things first, are your wheels and tires stock?

I

[forthlexus]

I am on my third ls 460, the lastest a 2010 rwd. My first 2008 ls was delivered with a vibration. After numerous test drives and being sent home from the dealer 3 times with them telling me that they had fixed it they finally determined that the transmission was defective from the factory. This took about 6 weeks of lost time waiting on a Lexus tech rep, on a brand new car, and a cancellation of a winter Arizona vacation. After going to the mat with Lexus factory I was given a new car about 10 weeks later. My second 2008 ls had an intermittent vibration that would usually show itself on very good smooth roads. After numerous test drives and load force balance and a replacement of the Bridgestone tires it was determined to be a bracket that holds the nav antenna to the top of the car. To fix it they wanted to completely remove the headliner and seats and stiffen up the bracket. The car had the clicking engine noise that I was told numerous times was normal [now its revealed that all along the factory knew that it was bad valve springs]. It also had bad air noise around the front doors that I was told was unfixable, at times it sounded like the windows were down. So, after about 15 months-13,000 miles I traded it back to the dealer for a 2010 so that I just did not have to deal with it any longer. One might wonder why I would give them another try after such dismay on a 75,000.00 car and I a guess that it boiled down to liking the general manager at the Lexus dealer who stood behind me on the fight with the factory to get the first car replaced. The Lexus Customer Service people are really arrogant, rude, and disrespectful to the degree that it is almost comical. The feeling that I got was "this is what we will do-take it or leave it. I was actually told by a lady in customer service "Calif. office-her name was Marilyn" that I was not being truthful and she did everything but use the word "liar". They told me that I would qualify for a customer loyalty reward of about $1000.00 on the 3rd car, but Marilyn said "NO" and I received nothing. It is now becoming apparent with Toyota/Lexus that they will do what ever with their customers. The disrespect that customer service shows their customers will eventually ruin the brand even though they do have some good cars. So far the 2010 is good with only a little driver window air noise, a high pitch whistle, that I can live with. Good luck if you have to deal with Factory Customer Service.

[lex460]

I am on my third ls 460, the lastest a 2010 rwd. My first 2008 ls was delivered with a vibration. After numerous test drives and being sent home from the dealer 3 times with them telling me that they had fixed it they finally determined that the transmission was defective from the factory. This took about 6 weeks of lost time waiting on a Lexus tech rep, on a brand new car, and a cancellation of a winter Arizona vacation. After going to the mat with Lexus factory I was given a new car about 10 weeks later. My second 2008 ls had an intermittent vibration that would usually show itself on very good smooth roads. After numerous test drives and load force balance and a replacement of the Bridgestone tires it was determined to be a bracket that holds the nav antenna to the top of the car. To fix it they wanted to completely remove the headliner and seats and stiffen up the bracket. The car had the clicking engine noise that I was told numerous times was normal [now its revealed that all along the factory knew that it was bad valve springs]. It also had bad air noise around the front doors that I was told was unfixable, at times it sounded like the windows were down. So, after about 15 months-13,000 miles I traded it back to the dealer for a 2010 so that I just did not have to deal with it any longer. One might wonder why I would give them another try after such dismay on a 75,000.00 car and I a guess that it boiled down to liking the general manager at the Lexus dealer who stood behind me on the fight with the factory to get the first car replaced. The Lexus Customer Service people are really arrogant, rude, and disrespectful to the degree that it is almost comical. The feeling that I got was "this is what we will do-take it or leave it. I was actually told by a lady in customer service "Calif. office-her name was Marilyn" that I was not being truthful and she did everything but use the word "liar". They told me that I would qualify for a customer loyalty reward of about $1000.00 on the 3rd car, but Marilyn said "NO" and I received nothing. It is now becoming apparent with Toyota/Lexus that they will do what ever with their customers. The disrespect that customer service shows their customers will eventually ruin the brand even though they do have some good cars. So far the 2010 is good with only a little driver window air noise, a high pitch whistle, that I can live with. Good luck if you have to deal with Factory Customer Service.

Interesting I would sure like to hear the other side of this story. This is not normal for Lexus CS. Still no help for the OP.

[Beniffnee]

I bought a 2010 LS 460 AWD in April 2010. I've been back to the dealer 4 times for tire balancing since I detect a vibration. They applied "Road Force" balance to the tires which seemed to help a little but an annoying vibration, most evidnet at 70-75 MPH persists but I can feel it at other speeds too. The car 4800 miles.

A bottle of water will reveal the vibration while driving on a smooth road. Also, the headrest will transfer the vibration to my hand if I place the back of my hand against the passenger's headrest while driving. I'm begining to think this a chracteristic of the car since I am reading similar stories from others. I thought for $72K I would not be experiencing that kind of thing but go figure. I'm still considering my options. Has anyone experienced this with the LS 460? Any resovled cases?

Couple of things first, are your wheels and tires stock?

I had a friend that owned a tire shop when he bought his 9700 road force balancer the boys in the back ended mis balancing tires until they figured out the problem. You need to be trained on the balancer and follow the procedure. The dealer normally does not have a tire guy anyone ends up balancing the tires making for errors. The only way to be sure is have them take a set of wheels off an new car and put them on yours and make sure they torque them with a torque wrench not the torque sticks.Then drive it. Many roads can feel smooth but have ripples in them try many roads if you find a road that does not do it then it is not the car. Good luck I have been down this road with other cars it is not fun.One of the main reasons I buy LS's is for the lack of NVH.

[forthlexus]

I am on my third ls 460, the lastest a 2010 rwd. My first 2008 ls was delivered with a vibration. After numerous test drives and being sent home from the dealer 3 times with them telling me that they had fixed it they finally determined that the transmission was defective from the factory. This took about 6 weeks of lost time waiting on a Lexus tech rep, on a brand new car, and a cancellation of a winter Arizona vacation. After going to the mat with Lexus factory I was given a new car about 10 weeks later. My second 2008 ls had an intermittent vibration that would usually show itself on very good smooth roads. After numerous test drives and load force balance and a replacement of the Bridgestone tires it was determined to be a bracket that holds the nav antenna to the top of the car. To fix it they wanted to completely remove the headliner and seats and stiffen up the bracket. The car had the clicking engine noise that I was told numerous times was normal [now its revealed that all along the factory knew that it was bad valve springs]. It also had bad air noise around the front doors that I was told was unfixable, at times it sounded like the windows were down. So, after about 15 months-13,000 miles I traded it back to the dealer for a 2010 so that I just did not have to deal with it any longer. One might wonder why I would give them another try after such dismay on a 75,000.00 car and I a guess that it boiled down to liking the general manager at the Lexus dealer who stood behind me on the fight with the factory to get the first car replaced. The Lexus Customer Service people are really arrogant, rude, and disrespectful to the degree that it is almost comical. The feeling that I got was "this is what we will do-take it or leave it. I was actually told by a lady in customer service "Calif. office-her name was Marilyn" that I was not being truthful and she did everything but use the word "liar". They told me that I would qualify for a customer loyalty reward of about $1000.00 on the 3rd car, but Marilyn said "NO" and I received nothing. It is now becoming apparent with Toyota/Lexus that they will do what ever with their customers. The disrespect that customer service shows their customers will eventually ruin the brand even though they do have some good cars. So far the 2010 is good with only a little driver window air noise, a high pitch whistle, that I can live with. Good luck if you have to deal with Factory Customer Service.

Interesting I would sure like to hear the other side of this story. This is not normal for Lexus CS. Still no help for the OP.

Just so you don't misunderstand me, my issues were not with my local Lexus dealer. This is not an ususual posting in reference to the way the factory handles their customers. Half truths, denials of problems, covering up of issues is exactly the treatment that I got with wind noise, and engine noise. I am sure that if you read this board you will see that they have treated many others the same as me. Eventually, after they refuse to admit that they have a problem, [the valve spring issue is a perfect example] it comes back to bite them. Everything made has issues and problems, it's how the company deals with them that matters. Yes, unfortunately, with all due respect, this is normal for Lexus/Toyota customer service. The cover ups tell the story better than I can begin to.

[Beniffnee]

Thanks all for your replies. The tires and wheels are stock (I only have 4800 miles). I think the guy on the Road Force Balancer is trained. Hard to verify that but they've been at for a few years so likely they have overcome the typical errors.

Fourthlexus - that's a scary story. This is my 3rd one; One 2004 ES for my wife (still has it - great car), one 2004 RX for me ( I traded it for the LS), and now the LS. Never had a problem before now. I'm cringing at the prospect of dealing with this for months on end after spending that kind of money.

In the absence of others weighing in with simiilar stories and similar resolution, I think I will continue to focus on the tires. I thoough I might learn from others about a drive train problem, trans issue, dampers etc, b ut no such revelations as of yet.

I appreciate all the ideas and I will continue to probe ... Ughhhh,,,,I'd rather be driving and not thinking about it.

[Ed Darte]

Beniffnee

I have a 2009 LS460 AWD with only 7500 miles. I have posted topic "2009 LS460 AWD – Bad Ride Quality..." in this forum on a similar if not identical problem. I at first suspected a "gear searching" problem around 20-25 MPH where the car had a continuous,mild hesitation as if the car was searching for the right gear. After driving the car more I now see it also very often occurs at 60-65 MPH.

I have also noted in another Lexus forum other owners who report similar vibration/hesitation sensations in the AWD model. From my reading of the TSIBs the 2009 and later models should not have the earlier transmission and driveshaft problems that occurred with the 2007 and 2008 years but there does seem to be definitely something wrong that is still unresolved with 2009+ AWD models.

I have only had the car a couple of weeks so I need to drive it more so I can tell Lexus service when the problem does and does not occur. Nothing worse than going in with an intermittent problem that refuses to appear during the service.

Regards,

Ed

[Beniffnee]

Beniffnee

I have a 2009 LS460 AWD with only 7500 miles. I have posted topic "2009 LS460 AWD – Bad Ride Quality..." in this forum on a similar if not identical problem. I at first suspected a "gear searching" problem around 20-25 MPH where the car had a continuous,mild hesitation as if the car was searching for the right gear. After driving the car more I now see it also very often occurs at 60-65 MPH.

I have also noted in another Lexus forum other owners who report similar vibration/hesitation sensations in the AWD model. From my reading of the TSIBs the 2009 and later models should not have the earlier transmission and driveshaft problems that occurred with the 2007 and 2008 years but there does seem to be definitely something wrong that is still unresolved with 2009+ AWD models.

I have only had the car a couple of weeks so I need to drive it more so I can tell Lexus service when the problem does and does not occur. Nothing worse than going in with an intermittent problem that refuses to appear during the service.

Regards,

Ed

[Beniffnee]

Ed,

Thanks for the input. My latest visit resulted in replacemant of all 4 tires. Still the Bridgestones. It definetely helped - got rid of 90% of the problem. It turns out that each of the tires was more than 14 pounds (not sure of the termonology, but I'm thinking foot-pounds or some out-of-round centrifugal force measured in pounds)out-of tolerance. One was upwards of 27 pounds according to the maint report. Why did it take them 5 visits to find it? One can only speculate.

So I think I'm in my tolernace zone, but still, for 72k I was expecting a smooth as glass ride. That's not the case, but we're doing much much better.

I suspect there may be one or more wheels/rims that is pushing the upper limit on out of round tolerence.

B

[lex460]

Ed,

Thanks for the input. My latest visit resulted in replacemant of all 4 tires. Still the Bridgestones. It definetely helped - got rid of 90% of the problem. It turns out that each of the tires was more than 14 pounds (not sure of the termonology, but I'm thinking foot-pounds or some out-of-round centrifugal force measured in pounds)out-of tolerance. One was upwards of 27 pounds according to the maint report. Why did it take them 5 visits to find it? One can only speculate.

So I think I'm in my tolernace zone, but still, for 72k I was expecting a smooth as glass ride. That's not the case, but we're doing much much better.

I suspect there may be one or more wheels/rims that is pushing the upper limit on out of round tolerence.

B

Good to

[Ed Darte]

Beniffnee,

Glad that your problem is now bearable, if not totally resolved. I hope that my cause is similar. I would much rather it be due to bad rubber than a bad tranny. I have yet to get it checked out as I am still trying to clearly document the problem and, as I am more than two hours away from the dealer, it is not something I can easily do.

Ed

[Beniffnee]

Having the dealership withing 20 minutes of the house helped I think. I'm still evaluating thier fix. I'd like to know how your issue comes out also. Best of luck.

B

[SW03ES]

My guess is bad tires. They keep replacing the tires with more Bridgestones...did you ever try Michelins? In my experience Michelin has MUCH higher quality control with regards to construction, and Michelins have always needed less weight to be balanced in my experience.

Sadly, I have heard many stories of Lexus/Toyota CS on a corporate level that are similar to this. Just like any other company in that regard.

[magic]

Thats interesting about the AWD 460. Maybe they have not yet been able to sort out all the problems. I was thinking of the AWD but if it is still not free of the glitches I think I will give it a miss then.

Incidentally, I have had very good service from Toyota when I had problems with my LandCruiser Prado when I lived in the UK. The Prado was a Japanese import to the UK and when I needed service the Toyota dealerships refused to service it more than the normal oil change etc.

So I wrote to Toyota Japan, and they very politely told me that there is nothing they can do about it since it was an import and the dealerships would only service local vehicles but they very helpfully gave me some names in the UK who would be able to service my Prado. So using going to these independent garages , I was able to service and sort out my problems for the Prado.

[doorman]

Hi Guys , I don't have AWD. But my 07 ls46o was getting a vibration @ 70 mph.. The dealer put it on the rack and showed me the inside tread of both rear tires were worn from bad alignment in the rear . After new tires and rear alignment every has been fine ... Hope this helps someone.

[Ed Darte]

Glad your problem was solved so easily. Others are not so lucky.

In my case Lexus did the right thing and did a buyback but this was after checking tires, alignment, replacing transmission and two computers without any improvement. I am now driving a vibration free 2011 AWD

[PA460AWD]

I leased a 2011 LS 460 AWD in March 2011. Within the first month I noticed a vibration, usually at highway speeds. The dealer fworked on it and it seemed good for several months. They told me that 3 out of 4 tires needed to be rebalanced. Months later, When the car reached 8,000 miles, I noticed a vibrations again, this time between 38-40 mph.

The dealer brought it in and rebalanced all the wheels. That did not resolve the problem. They took the wheels off a brand new LS and tested it before they gave it back to me. That did not solve it either. They called the regional Lexus factory rep and asked me to bring it back a couple of weeks later for him to examine it.

The next day I was called back to test drive my car. The service manager and the master mechanic explained to me all the things they attempted over the 4 days they had my car over two weeks. First I drove a brand new 2012 LS AWD with 21 miles on the odometer. It had the same vibration as my car only at slightly higher speed of 40-42 mph. Then I drove my car the vibration was obviously still I noted my car has Bridgestone tires while the '12 had Dunlop tires on it.

My conclusion is, the problem is not tire related, but a manufacturing defect. I believ that it is up to design engineers in Japan to find a fix for this probelm. After reading comments in this forum I suspect this issue has been known by Toyota for at least two years and I am very disappointed that they have not resolved it. For the record, I have leased 4 GS Lexuses from this dealership in the last 12 years. Up to now I have been totally happy with my cars and the good people at my dealership. I believe that they have done everything in their power to fix my car. I hope that Lexus finds a solution to this problem in the very near future. I have 26 months left on my lease and right now I dread drving this car every day. For $73,000 I expected a lot more then what they delivered.

[jaswood]

The very first thing I would do is remove the front drive and see if the vibration persists.

[JHR's LS 460]

Hello All:

I am a, "NEWBIE", to the site and was curious with this topic. I have a 2011 LS460 AWD, Manufactured Feb.'11 and purchased Apr.'11. My LS currently has 7980 miles, standard Wheels, with Bridgestone Turanza EL42 P235/50R18 97V tires.

At about 4000 miles I noticed that there seemed to be a slight vibration when the car was cold the first few miles of driving. I took my LS to the dealer for inspection and was told that the car was heavy and when the tires were cold, such as sitting overnight the tires developed slight flat spots that go away after a few miles of driving. That seemed to be the case and I was satisfied with the explanation.

When I reached about 7500 miles I still was feeling a slight vibration but became noticeable at 38 to 43 MPH, and much after 45 MPH not noticeable at all. You could feel it in the steering wheel and if you put your palm on the center console or on the passenger headrest. I drove my LS on a lot of different road surfaces and was fairly confident it was not my imagination.

I made an appointment and took my LS to the dealer with 7700 miles on early Jan.'12. After inspection they decided there was a, "Belt Shift", in the left rear tire and replaced it. It was difficult for the dealer to test drive the LS for any length of time at the speeds of 38-43 45 MPH because of traffic. I took the car home and thought I still was feeling a slight shutter and vibration. I made another appointment and returned to the dealer 5 days later with 7800 miles on my LS. The dealer had me ride with the mechanic and I could feel a bit of a shutter vibration with the mechanic driving but was difficult to keep driving at a consistent speed. They replaced the right rear tire because of a, "Belt Shift", as a, "GOODWILL WARRANTY".

I took my LS home and in the last week have put about 150 miles on it. Although the vibration and or shutter I am feeling seems to have definitely lessened I am not convinced that it is gone completely.

Well, that's my story and I would appreciate any comments or suggestions.

Sorry that I have been so long winded in my first post!

[sonowino]

I have a 07 LS460. It has developed a steady vibration at 70 mph. The dealer did everything except look at the car. All they did was look at tires, which were 3 days brand new. They did the 'road force test'. It seems they have more experience with this issue than they are willing to admit. They tried to blame the vibration on the new tires, so I had the tire dealer replace them with better tires. Same thing. I had them replaced a 3rd time in two weeks, better tires each time. Still the car vibrates at 70. Same as 'Beniffnee' above. Finally after 3 sets of new tires, the dealer admitted finding the drive shaft needed balancing, the very item I asked the dealer to check from the 1st visit. The drive shaft was rotated 140 degrees. Wow. Secondly, I have a clink in the underside when I shift from park to reverse while in the garage on level ground, it does it too, shifting to drive. The dealer tells me there is a suspension problem that will cost $4000 to repair. Can anyone relate to this??? Control arms maybe???

[Ed Darte]

I have just had this TSB (L-SB-0013-12 AWD Vibration between 30-75 MPH) applied to my 2011 LS and I am feeling pretty confident that this finally fixes the AWD transmission vibration problem. On inclines at speeds around 60 MPH under slight acceleration I would get quite severe vibration that was even noticeable to passengers. After this TSB was applied I could not detect any vibration.

I think I need take more time to be sure this is a permanent fix because when I first picked up this 2011 I could not feel any vibration but after about 4000 miles the car was vibrating worse than my 2009. I suspect that this was a result of changes to the transmissions's shifting algorithm after "learning" my driving behavior.

But if this fix does work it will have solved a problem that has plagued my ownership experience since June 2010.