Leaking Valve Seal, Cost ?

[TroyLexus]

I believe my valve seals are leaking, does anyone know ball park figure what the lexus dealership will charge for this service ?

[blk_on_blk]

don't know about the dealership, but a good indie shop will charge about $1200-$1300 for the repair. What makes you think your seals are leaking? Blue smoke on start-up? Other? Your vehicle is kind of new for valve seal failures. How many miles do you have? If you really are having valve seal issues, then you may want to run a bottle of Bardahl's No-Smoke in your oil for the time being... that should clear up valve-seal leakage problems for a while (just a Band-Aid to get you by for a while).

[TroyLexus]

don't know about the dealership, but a good indie shop will charge about $1200-$1300 for the repair. What makes you think your seals are leaking? Blue smoke on start-up? Other? Your vehicle is kind of new for valve seal failures. How many miles do you have? If you really are having valve seal issues, then you may want to run a bottle of Bardahl's No-Smoke in your oil for the time being... that should clear up valve-seal leakage problems for a while (just a Band-Aid to get you by for a while).

It's a 2004 ES330 with 80,000 miles. I have the blue smoke or white smoke ? at start up... it's fairly faint, you have to look for it to notice, but you CAN notice... it's not shooting out like a bat out of hell though...

Any other thoughts on what it could be ?

What can I check or tell you that would help anyone diagnose thise here ?

What other information do you need or questions ?

[lenore]

You know that is allfully low mileage. Are you using oil? What kind of oil do you use, and how often was it changed? they can do a leak down test for checking the condition of the rings and valve stem seals. I hope your engine doesnt have signs of sludge. That was generally only on the 1mze engine (1999-2003)

[TroyLexus]

You know that is allfully low mileage. Are you using oil? What kind of oil do you use, and how often was it changed? they can do a leak down test for checking the condition of the rings and valve stem seals. I hope your engine doesnt have signs of sludge. That was generally only on the 1mze engine (1999-2003)

Ok, I bought the car a week and a half ago... so I don't know about the oil .. .

If it has signs of sludge, what am I looking at ? full engine replacement ? I was going to bring it in to the dealership on monday, get estimates... then shop around at indie shops...

the dealerships tend to be super picky and point out every problem.. . where sometimes in my personal experience, the indie shop will say, yeah, it's fine no big deal... but that's just in my experience..

Also, will I be able to see any "signs of sludge" if I drain the oil and look at it ?

[lenore]

Probably not, You need to pull the front valve cover and look under it. Not through the oil filler hole, that is missleading. Another solution is to try some AUTO RX which could clean the engine. Just not sure what kind of problem you have. Did you buy it from a dealership or private party. Was there any kind of warranty...???

[blk_on_blk]

Hmm, so are you saying that you get wispy whitish smoke out the tail pipe (that dissipates quickly), but once it's warm, you don't get it? That very well could just be simple condensation... it's that time of year for it. My mom's CR-V pukes out smoke (which is really steam) like mad on cold start up, but once it's warm, it's fine. That little thing has a HUGE exhaust system on it, and it just takes a while to heat the whole thing up to where it's dissipating the condensation. Before you get too nervous about it, I'd look a little more into your smoke being just condensation.

If it is truly valve seals (which I'm doubting at the moment because your vehicle is just too new), then you'll be getting this blue-grayish smoke that just hangs there and kind of swirls around and doesn't dissipate quickly... that's burnt oil. True white smoke is an indication of a blown head gasket (or more precisely, and indication you are getting water/coolant into your combustion chamber), but that doesn't just show up on start up. If you've got bleed over into your combustion chamber, it's there to stay.

Here's a link with more info on "smoke" from the exhaust. Answers 8 & 9 being the most helpful http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_can_cause_w...rom_the_exhaust

[TroyLexus]

Hmm, so are you saying that you get wispy whitish smoke out the tail pipe (that dissipates quickly), but once it's warm, you don't get it? That very well could just be simple condensation... it's that time of year for it. My mom's CR-V pukes out smoke (which is really steam) like mad on cold start up, but once it's warm, it's fine. That little thing has a HUGE exhaust system on it, and it just takes a while to heat the whole thing up to where it's dissipating the condensation. Before you get too nervous about it, I'd look a little more into your smoke being just condensation.

If it is truly valve seals (which I'm doubting at the moment because your vehicle is just too new), then you'll be getting this blue-grayish smoke that just hangs there and kind of swirls around and doesn't dissipate quickly... that's burnt oil. True white smoke is an indication of a blown head gasket (or more precisely, and indication you are getting water/coolant into your combustion chamber), but that doesn't just show up on start up. If you've got bleed over into your combustion chamber, it's there to stay.

Here's a link with more info on "smoke" from the exhaust. Answers 8 & 9 being the most helpful http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_can_cause_w...rom_the_exhaust

To everyone who hast posted on this topic, I just want to say thanks, and that I truly apreciate the support I am getting. There's nothing more frustratig than buying a car from a dealership with no warranty, and seeing problem after problem... I will drive the car around for a long time, until it warms up really good, and post the results, along with more questions, later tonight...

thanks !

[lenore]

Most of the time blue smoke indicates oil, and when you start it up is when it would show, after the catalytic converter gets hot, the oil is burned up and hard to detect. I would still be tempted to just remove the front valve cover, especially on a unknown engine and make sure you dont have sludge. here is a picture of a sludge engine after scrapping piles out...(note RX300 1mze engine) (2003)

[blk_on_blk]

You know, Lenore, I'm always a bit traumatized each time I see that picture... it's like looking at carnage

[lenore]

Yea I know, I am scared to look at mine, I am just hoping that my deligent maintenance, and use of synthetic stopped any progression towards that picture. that is a 2003 engine with 50k miles, all oil changes done on time at a Toyota dealership.....be-warned everyone, it could happen to you....Keep them oil changes on time and with good quality oil...

[blk_on_blk]

I think with good care and maintenance, you should be fine... and I know you take very good care of your ride. Back in the days I used to race, I had several guys tell me to run Rislone in high-mileage engines as preventative maintenance. I'm not one to trust additives, but Rislone has been around for YEARS and I've never seen one truly bad result with it, plus it's essentially like a mild Auto-RX... just enough of a cleaner to scare away the sludge build up. That's something I can use at 145K miles!

[camlex]

everybody talks about oil, what are other factors? Engine Cooling system !

[pauljcl]

everybody talks about oil, what are other factors? Engine Cooling system !

I do not pretend to the expertise of lenore and blk_on_blk, but I was always told that blue smoke was oil, white smoke water. A little white smoke if engine is starting and cold is often OK. Do you check your oil, does your car use a lot of it? Do you check your water / coolant level? Does it go down, are you losing coolant? If the answer is 'no' to both those questions, you may not have a problem at all....

[TroyLexus]

everybody talks about oil, what are other factors? Engine Cooling system !

I do not pretend to the expertise of lenore and blk_on_blk, but I was always told that blue smoke was oil, white smoke water. A little white smoke if engine is starting and cold is often OK. Do you check your oil, does your car use a lot of it? Do you check your water / coolant level? Does it go down, are you losing coolant? If the answer is 'no' to both those questions, you may not have a problem at all....

UPDATE : Ok so after driving around for half an hour, then coming back home to check for smoke, there was absolutly none! does that mean I'm in the clear ? someone mentioned if you have sludge, after it heats up there will be no smoke anyway... so maybe I should pop the cover off ?

How do I do that ? is it fairly simple and I just remove the point blank obvious screws ?

[lenore]

The front cover does have the spark plug coil packs which need to be disconnected, not a difficult task. the spark plugs can be left in the cylinder. just remove the single screw holding the coils down and remove, then access the valve covers. when putting back do not over torque the bolts. If you have a camera give us a shot.

[TroyLexus]

The front cover does have the spark plug coil packs which need to be disconnected, not a difficult task. the spark plugs can be left in the cylinder. just remove the single screw holding the coils down and remove, then access the valve covers. when putting back do not over torque the bolts. If you have a camera give us a shot.

This afternoon or next, I will do that, I will take a picture and post it here for your guys' expert reveiw..

It's hard to find time working 7 days a week... . .

Once this problem is solved, I just have to worry about my high idle.. I noticed alot of people posted that the IACV is to blame for idle, but from all the posts I've read, it only gives mention to rough, or low idle.... Does anyone know if the IACV valve is suspect for very smooth, but high idle ? I have the chilton, and did not see anything for 'high idle' ...

thanks !

Also, My goal is to tackle these two problems this weekend before my scheduled apt to bring it to the dealer, I'm hoping I can fix these 2 problems and cancel my apt and save hundreds if not thousands. .

I have the throttle body cleaner, and plan on cleaning out the IACV valve this afternoon along with tearing into the engine in search for sludge...

[camlex]

Good Luck.

[blk_on_blk]

All great input here!! Here's another document on evaluating visible exhaust: http://www.autoselectonline.com/LinkClick....90&mid=1771

QUOTE (camlex @ Apr 9 2009, 10:51 PM) *

everybody talks about oil, what are other factors? Engine Cooling system !

BTW, Camlex, I'm with you on the cooling system, and from what I understand, the oil sludge issues comes from the fact that the 1mz-fe engine has narrow oil passages, which slows the oil to the point it picks up too much heat and can cause sludge. One can go after that issue with an improved cooling system, but I doubt anyone is going to update their cooling system (bigger more-row radiator? machine their block to increase water flow? bigger fans on radiator?). So, we're left going after oil that won't sludge up, or an additive that goes in and cleans out any deposited sludge.

[TroyLexus]

I can't get the airbox out. I have all vacume hoses off, air filter out, the three screws at the bottom of the air box out, I can move it freely, except one thing...

the two or three wire in a casing behind the air box, is attached to the airbox, there are plastic loops on the back of the airbox that the cable with plastic casing around goes through.... any idea how to get that off ?

I'm trying to get to the IACV valve. ..

[lenore]

there is a clip on those wire holders, just take a screwdriver or needlenose and detach the entire clip from the housing.

[TroyLexus]

there is a clip on those wire holders, just take a screwdriver or needlenose and detach the entire clip from the housing.

UPDATE - I didn't get to the IACV , I noticed a bad vacume line while I was in there, I replaced it, now here is my next question..

Cold engine, started in park, RPM's are at 1200 for less than 10 seconds, then 1000 RPM for less than 30 seconds, then I put it in gear, and they dropped to 800, after engine warmed up, rpms were at 700 or so, even in park. Is this normal ?

I understand an engine runs higher when cold, my question is, does a normal engine run at lets say 1000 at the highest, and down from there, and so forth ??? the temp is about 60 degrees F outside.. .

thanks !

I'm hoping all my problems are fixed and I can be done with this.. . .

[TroyLexus]

there is a clip on those wire holders, just take a screwdriver or needlenose and detach the entire clip from the housing.

I tried like crazy to get the clip off, from the back, everything, but I think your right, if I took a needle nose, I might be able to screw it off from the back, but man that would be hard .. . .

[pauljcl]

All great input here!! Here's another document on evaluating visible exhaust: http://www.autoselectonline.com/LinkClick....90&mid=1771

QUOTE (camlex @ Apr 9 2009, 10:51 PM) *

everybody talks about oil, what are other factors? Engine Cooling system !

BTW, Camlex, I'm with you on the cooling system, and from what I understand, the oil sludge issues comes from the fact that the 1mz-fe engine has narrow oil passages, which slows the oil to the point it picks up too much heat and can cause sludge. One can go after that issue with an improved cooling system, but I doubt anyone is going to update their cooling system (bigger more-row radiator? machine their block to increase water flow? bigger fans on radiator?). So, we're left going after oil that won't sludge up, or an additive that goes in and cleans out any deposited sludge.

There is a thermostat which regulates the flow of water (and the temperature of the water). Even if you double the size of your radiator, the thermostat will keep the water at the same temperature as previously, unless your engine was over-heating before.

[camlex]

there is a clip on those wire holders, just take a screwdriver or needlenose and detach the entire clip from the housing.

UPDATE - I didn't get to the IACV , I noticed a bad vacume line while I was in there, I replaced it, now here is my next question..

Cold engine, started in park, RPM's are at 1200 for less than 10 seconds, then 1000 RPM for less than 30 seconds, then I put it in gear, and they dropped to 800, after engine warmed up, rpms were at 700 or so, even in park. Is this normal ?

I understand an engine runs higher when cold, my question is, does a normal engine run at lets say 1000 at the highest, and down from there, and so forth ??? the temp is about 60 degrees F outside.. .

thanks !

I'm hoping all my problems are fixed and I can be done with this.. . .

I think that's normal rpm...