Need Help. Bad Experience With Lexus Of Wilmington Delaware

[boss_onie]

Hi, any advice and comments is appreciated. I had a bad experience with the dealership of Lexus of Wilmington, Below is my story.

pictures of the damage: click the link below:

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http://bossonie.pinoyreklamo.com/L2.jpg

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http://bossonie.pinoyreklamo.com/L4.jpg

Summary:

I schedule the car to be repaired. I got a call that the car was damage during the test drive on a HEAVY SNOW DAY. The director for service and parts did not treat me right as well as the overall head manager. I was trying to ask for a diminish value on my car, they don't seem to care. They just want to fix the damage, and I think, thats it for me, because, Accidents happen.

Detailed story:

February 28, 2009 Saturday – I sent the car (have it towed) for repair. David scheduled the car for repair on Monday. David told me, that the guys assigned on my car, will call me, inform about the expenses and ask for permission to install the parts.

March 2, 2009 Monday (Heavy Snow day) Gregg Ritter called me, informing me that the problem was still apparent. According to Gregg, they test drove the vehicle on a heavy snow day, the vehicle’s rear quarter panel, driver side, ended up being damaged. According to Greg, my vehicle, being test driven by a Lexus technician without my prior knowledge and/or permission, slid and struck another vehicle on the road. Gregg asked for my permission to repair the vehicle. I told him to hold off on repairing anything as I was surprised and I wanted to see the vehicle first. We want to see the damage on the car first, before we make any decisions. Gregg further stated that the damage was VERY MINOR, he said that it could be repaired in 2 days. Gregg said that there was a 4-inch damage to the vehicle. We told him that we wanted to see the car right away, unfortunately Gregg told us that your office was closing early because of the HEAVY SNOW DAY. We asked for pictures at least and Gregg told me he will email it to us. I gave him my email address.

By the way, Greg told me that there was a police report but did not show me the actual report so I can read it.

March 3, 2009 Tuesday, We went to lexus of Wilmington and spoke with Gregg Ritter.

Summary of Discussion: I am disappointed/unhappy, of course and I kept asking questions about the accident, how and what happened. Gregg seemed to be somehow irritated and began speaking aggressively and defensively. Saying things like, “It was just an accident, ‘accidents happen’.” Gregg also said that when I brought my car for repair, I signed a waiver and a paper allowing your office to test drive my vehicle.

I did not sign anything. He was so arrogant. I felt belittled. He also stated that the car was not there for frequent service ANYWAY and he made it seem like Lexus was somehow giving us a favor by fixing the damage that they created in the first place. Also, while we were there, Gregg made us feel like it was a sin to ask him questions about the accident. He was so defensive and he raised his voice at us a lot. I was very disappointed and was very upset inside, although it did not show, and that is why I kept on asking questions about the damage. If there is any person who should be irritated, it should be me, not Gregg.

Gregg stated these words in a raised and aggressive manner:

“Technically, we are not responsible for the car because when you came in here, you signed a paper stating that we can test drive your car. But since we are LEXUS that is why we are trying to make it right. We can just have your insurance company involved in the first place but did not because we are LEXUS.”

Gregg also implied that we were accusing him of negligence.

How can Lexus not be responsible for damage that their employee caused or was involved in? Was Gregg implying that I should be the person solely responsible for fixing the damage?

Gregg kept on saying, “these kinds of things happen, accidents happen”.

Gregg also stated that this situation has also happened a couple of times before my incident.

He mentioned that my lexus was not frequently serviced there and he also added that “Normally, if this happens to a regular customer, I would just call them and inform them about the situation and they will signal a GO on the repair.”

Gregg implied that just because I am not a regular customer there, I don't know how things work and I don’t trust him.

How can someone, with their first repair done there, suddenly receive a phone call saying that their car was damaged and feel that he can TRUST that dealership?

In the middle of our discussion he suddenly, in what seemed like a burst of anger, said, “DO YOU THINK SOMEHOW, WE ARE TRYING TO HIDE SOMETHING FROM YOU? IT WAS JUST A MINOR ACCIDENT, AND ACCIDENTS HAPPEN! ”

Gregg cited an example, if someone was driving my car, and it was involved in an accident, then the person who was driving is at fault will be the one responsible for the accident. Did he mean that I, as a Lexus paying customer had to talk to the Lexus technician/driver and have to work things out with the driver since he was at fault and not Lexus?

When we were trying to ask, why they did a test drive on a very heavy snow day, Gregg became more aggressive and yelled at us three times, ”ARE YOU SAYING THAT, IT WAS NEGLIGENCE ON OUR PART ”

The situation was turned around here, he was mad at me, the owner/customer, whose car got damaged.

He said, “In the first place, we could have just called your insurance and informed them that the car was in an accident .” (Its simply telling me that I am somehow responsible for the accident happened because I allowed them to test drive the car. – which I did not gave permission to . I did not sign any paper saying they can test drive the car.) He followed “But, since we are LEXUS, that’s why we are trying to have it fixed right away.” (Trying to sound that he was doing me a favor.) I know what LEXUS is , that’s why I bought one, Lexus stands for Luxury and excellence in everything. From the car performance to customer service. I was not treated the LEXUS WAY, Somehow, I was treated like I bought a low-end vehicle.

I live in a community of lexus owners, My friends have already expressed their disgust towards your service department manager.

It would have made a lot of difference if I was treated professionally.

March 4, 2009 – I spoke with Alex Haeffer – head manager of Lexus Wilmington.

what happen below:

No apology was given by the manager. The manager was also tough on me.

Alex, also told me that he knows what happen and giving the option, to have it repaired on there body shop, or he could write a check for $1200 and have it repaired. I asked him, “Is this how you treat your customers?” I was trying to ask about the diminished value of the car? He told me that it’s a ten year old car, there is not much diminish value on the car. somehow implied that Lexus does not holds its value, which makes me feel I own a very low end car. Lexus are showing in there commercials that they have great resale value, and yet my car was discriminated because it’s a Ten year old.

Alex Haeffer tries to shut me off early in the discussion, as I was still about to tell him that I was not treated well. He is backing up what Gregg had done to me, not treating me right and professionally. Its seems to be clear to me, I was not treated with care and professionally both by Gregg Ritter (director of service and parts) and Alex Haeffer (Overall head manager, Lexus Wilmington.) Is this really how LEXUS treat there customers? I am trying to have an impression, that all LEXUS are like this dealership. Just because I am not a regular customer at there dealership, that’s why I don’t get the treatment that I am supposed to get. Is this a discrimination between a regular customer and new customer.

my opinion, I don't want a car that has been damaged. It will never be the same for me. Knowing the damage was very near the gas tank. Plus the treatment that they gave me. Need help please. advise, comments? suggestions?

[1990LS400]

boss_onie,

Accidents happen. You wouldn't believe how many cars get damaged during test drives. I spent 31 years with the company that insures most auto dealers in the U.S. so I know how common it is -- I've read plenty of claims reports if sometimes only for their entertainment value.

You are not going to get any kind of "diminished value" compensation on a 10 year old car -- even if your car was far newer you wouldn't get that kind of compensation. It ain't going to happen and it is never done that way.

It is normal for a mechanic to take a car for a test drive without your specific permission.

If you don't like the way the dealership is fixing the body damage, take your car to a body shop of your choosing, pay for it yourself and bill the dealership for the cost. If you do this, get your own insurance company involved since litigation may be necessary.

The damage to your car appears to be quite minor and shouldn't be difficult for any competent body shop to repair.

I think the dealership treated you completely fairly.

[newtoncd]

First off, you are posting to this forum, so I assume you want honest feedback.

Next, it is wrong they didn't treat you with the most utmost respect. I don't care what type of dealership it is.

I would think it would be common that if you had your car towed in (and it was drivable) for diagnosis that they may need to test drive to see what is wrong. It is very unfortunate that they damaged your car, although it has happened to me before. The place paid for the repair to my vehicle, accepted responsibility, and I was on my way.

Finally, as I understand things, they wrecked your car and they are offering to either fix it at their repair shop or give you the cash to fix it at the shop of your choice, right? That seems fair to me.

While it is not fair this happened, the damage is minor and there is no concern about the damage being near the gas tank.

Did you purchase the vehicle new back in 1999? If so, has it ever been in a minor accident? If not, how do you know the previous owner didn't have some type of accident?

In the end, I am left a little confused. What do you want them to do, give you blue book price and let you walk because of the damage? You didn't state the number of miles, so I am assuming 100,000 miles and based upon that, the wholesale price is somewhere around $6000-$7000. Their offer seems fair to me.

My $.02.

[artbuc]

I haven't been there for many years, but I can tell you that in the late 90's the LOW Service Department was run by a bunch of liars and cheats. I have several good stories to back-up that claim. On one occasion, the Service Manager called me at work and offered to give me a free tank of gas plus complete detail job if I wouldn't reveal what happened on the customer quality survey. What a bunch of crooks!

[SW03ES]

First of all you need to understand that the dealership is not owned by Lexus, it is a privately owned business. Your issue is with Lexus of Wilmington, not Lexus corporate.

I know how it feels to have your vehicle damaged by the dealership, and I know how it feels to be treated by people who don't care. You feel violated and mistreated over what has happened. I understand that.

First of all, like Jim said damage DOES happen at dealers. It happens more than you would think. Its happened to me 3 times in the 5 1/2 years I've had my Lexus. Test drives are normal. Should they have driven it in heavy snow? I wouldn't have.

The first step in getting something like this dealt with is to pull back and gain perspective. Its a car, a thing, and accidents DO happen. They aren't going to replace your car, they are going to fix it (and they are obligated to). Defensiveness is a two way street.

I was trying to ask about the diminished value of the car? He told me that it’s a ten year old car, there is not much diminish value on the car. somehow implied that Lexus does not holds its value, which makes me feel I own a very low end car. Lexus are showing in there commercials that they have great resale value, and yet my car was discriminated because it’s a Ten year old.

He is correct. Your vehicle is 10 years old and its probably worth somewhere in the neighborhood of $5,000. Theres really going to be no diminished value. Lexus vehicles do have great resale value, that has nothing to do with the fact that yours is old.

If you're concerned about it have your insurance adjuster look at the car and evaluate the damage. He will tell you if there will be any DMV.

my opinion, I don't want a car that has been damaged. It will never be the same for me. Knowing the damage was very near the gas tank. Plus the treatment that they gave me.

Seeing your pictures, the damage is very minor. It can be repaired easily for around what the dealer is saying, $1200. It will in no way hamper the operation and enjoyment of your vehicle. The proximity of the gas tank is just simply not an issue...

My advice? Take it to an independent repair shop you trust and get references, compare the estimates and have the dealer pay that shop for the damage. I wouldn't let the dealer do the work...

It sounds like the dealer is crappy, learn from the experience and dont take your car back there. I'm not sure however what you want the dealer to do outside of what they've already said they would do? Asking them to replace your vehicle or something is just...insane...

[cduluk]

I somewhat know how you must feel. The biggest part for me would be their attitude.

I've seen an accident occur at my local lexus dealer. My dealer's service area has automatic doors that lift and lower as cars in for service approach them. One of the techs was leaving the service station with a customers Rx330 (this was a couple years ago...). As he was driving the car out, the door abruptly shut right on the tailgate! The spoiler and rear glass was shattered, it was a mess! The owners car screamed out, "My car!!!!!!".

A few weeks later, i asked my service manager about the incident, and he told me they bought him a new RX.

I've also had minor damage occur to me once. I was having my door speaker replaced because it went dead under warranty. When i got the car back, there was a large gouge in the center console! (no idea how they managed that one...). I showed the rep, and they purchased me a new console and had it replaced within a week. They were very sincere in their apology, i couldn't have asked for more.

I think the only thing anyone can expect from situations like this is respect. That's how you keep happy customers in my book.

In your situation with a 10yr old RX, it would be a little excessive for them to buy you a new car just because of that dent. That seems more like a $3000 repair to me (they'd need to weld on a new 1/4 panel, repaint it and blend into the rear door...) but as long as they pay you to have it repaired until YOU ARE 100% SATISFIED, i think it's fair.

I used to think having "body work" was something i could never live with- as if something would be tainted about the car. But after i had a few accidents and realized a good auto body shop can make it look as good as OEM (with also removing whatever scratches are there or what not) i didn't mind the idea at all. Now, my car doesn't have a single panel that hasn't had work done to it, but you'd never know and it looks totally brand new :)

Only thing i fault your dealership on is the way they handled it. That attitude is absolutely unacceptable, whether it's Lexus, Rolls Royce or even Hyundai. You don't treat customers like that, you just don't...

[mccldwll]

They have the right to drive it. It may or may not have been negligence re: driving on that day; the person who drove it; how/where it was driven (might have taken your car to get lunch, pick up someone, etc.). Ask for copy of police report for your records.

There certainly can be a problem blending paint on a 10 year old car. Unless I knew a good body shop and was ceratin about the outcome, I would want to leave the problem with that dealership to make certain they got it back to condition it was in before accident. If they can do that, then no diminished value. If they can't, there is. Don't bring in a third party that they can shift blame to if doesn't come out the way you want. Keep the ball in their court.

[John Stanley]

It sounds to me like a main part of the problem is with dealer attitude.

I had the opposite experience with another dealer. After I purchased the 2006 GS 300, i noticed that the paint started to peel around the sensors in the back bumper.

The dealer was very accommodating, and said that they had no knowledge of any paint repair having been done prior to that. But they gave me a brand new loaner, and had it repaired at their cost, with a perfect paint colour match up.

Stan

[boss_onie]

Hey guys,

Thank you very much for all your replies. I have reported this to Lexus main head quarters, and they are now doing a research.

I was treated badly by the dealership.

I will keep you guys updated.

To SW03ES,

I want to make a quote when you said:

"First of all you need to understand that the dealership is not owned by Lexus, it is a privately owned business. Your issue is with Lexus of Wilmington, not Lexus corporate."

- I know this, But do you know that lexus main department has there own way of dealing with these kind of dealers who don't treat there customers right.

regards

onie

[SW03ES]

There certainly can be a problem blending paint on a 10 year old car. Unless I knew a good body shop and was ceratin about the outcome, I would want to leave the problem with that dealership to make certain they got it back to condition it was in before accident. If they can do that, then no diminished value. If they can't, there is. Don't bring in a third party that they can shift blame to if doesn't come out the way you want. Keep the ball in their court.

My opinion is if these guys are jerks, and they can't even drive a car arounf without wrecking it, why would I ever let them do any bodywork to my car?

Thats why I would find an independent shop.

- I know this, But do you know that lexus main department has there own way of dealing with these kind of dealers who don't treat there customers right.

Yes and no. They send out customer satisfaction surveys and they charge low performing dealers higher interest rates on their stock, etc. However, if you called 1-800-25-LEXUS they would tell you that you need to deal with the dealership directly.

[mccldwll]

My opinion is if these guys are jerks, and they can't even drive a car arounf without wrecking it, why would I ever let them do any bodywork to my car?

Thats why I would find an independent shop.

The guys doing the body work generally are not the same service jerks, and if they do almost all their work on Lexuses, they're used to a certain high standard. If someone knows a body shop and in confident about the body work and paint match, OK. Otherwise, if you keep it with the shop which did the damage, and they can't match the paint--get it back to original condition--then it's still their problem. They can't argue no diminished value if there is diminished value due to bad match. It's not really a question about who is capable of doing better work, it's a question about not letting the jerks off the hook until you're completely satisfied.

[SW03ES]

I really disagree. In the many times over the years when I've had bodywork done to cars, the bodywork I've had done at dealership shops has always been the work I am least satisfied with, and that includes Lexus dealers. Dealerships have a built in source of business and they don't need to rest on their reputation to get business. Look at the way this dealer has treated him, they obviously don't care about customer satisfaction.

An independent shop has to rest on their reputation, because its customer satisfaction and referrals that keep them alive.

While I agree with you it would be nice to make these guys do it until its right, me personally I care more that the work is done well and properly than making someone make right for some damage they did.

This dealer doesn't care and they have already written this person off in terms of any future business. They will do a half assed repair job and then tell her to go screw. Thats what crappy dealers do.

Get them to cover the repair at a good shop and never go there again.

[boss_onie]

Hey guys,

Thank you very much for all your replies. Just an update, When i saw the car, I have to go to the body shop. The body shop is winner auto, The shop is really nice, and the people work there is very professional. They also offer lifetime warranty on there work. I am now waiting for the delaers response, as they are now being contact by lexus main department. I hope everything would come out favorable on my side. The way I was treated was really unacceptable.

I am willing to just accept what happen, if thats the case, But I want them somehow to learn there lesson. Never do those things to there customers.

Godbless everyone,

Ron.

[SW03ES]

Good, keep us posted.

Let me give you some advice...don't spend your time trying to teach others a lesson. The dealer isn't going to learn their lesson, you're not the first person they've treated this way I'm sure.

You have to step back and look at this from a business perspective. What has the dealer really lost? You were never a solid customer anyways by your own admission, and would you really have taken it back there and spent $200 on an oil change even if they had treated you great? No, you wouldn't have.

I'm not saying they should have treated you that way, they shouldn't have, but looking at the situation and really understanding the value you bring to the equation and what the other party has truly to loose is enormously helpful when you're negotiating in situations like this...

Just look out for you, get your car fixed and move on.

[boss_onie]

Hey guys just an update,

Friday March 15, I got a favorable response from Lexus main headquarters. I originally have a $1800 for repairs that is scheduled to be done before the accident happened. The dealership lexus of wilmington Delaware will be paying 50% of the cost. I will pay the other half. The damage will still be repaired by lexus wilmington DE at their cost. Thank you for the advice SW30ES. I just want them to learn a lesson, that they should treat customers right.

I hope this story will also be of help to others, that they can count on Lexus Main headquarters to discipline/have authority over those dealers who are doing these things. I commend Lexus customer satisfaction and give them 200% effort in helping me.

regards,

onie

[artbuc]

Hey guys just an update,

Friday March 15, I got a favorable response from Lexus main headquarters. I originally have a $1800 for repairs that is scheduled to be done before the accident happened. The dealership lexus of wilmington Delaware will be paying 50% of the cost. I will pay the other half. The damage will still be repaired by lexus wilmington DE at their cost. Thank you for the advice SW30ES. I just want them to learn a lesson, that they should treat customers right.

I hope this story will also be of help to others, that they can count on Lexus Main headquarters to discipline/have authority over those dealers who are doing these things. I commend Lexus customer satisfaction and give them 200% effort in helping me.

regards,

onie

Based on my experience, LOW does not "learn a lesson". They are glad to get you off their back so they can resume business as usual.

[mccldwll]

Hey guys just an update,

Friday March 15, I got a favorable response from Lexus main headquarters. I originally have a $1800 for repairs that is scheduled to be done before the accident happened. The dealership lexus of wilmington Delaware will be paying 50% of the cost. I will pay the other half. The damage will still be repaired by lexus wilmington DE at their cost. Thank you for the advice SW30ES. I just want them to learn a lesson, that they should treat customers right.

I hope this story will also be of help to others, that they can count on Lexus Main headquarters to discipline/have authority over those dealers who are doing these things. I commend Lexus customer satisfaction and give them 200% effort in helping me.

regards,

onie

Based on my experience, LOW does not "learn a lesson". They are glad to get you off their back so they can resume business as usual.

I don't know LOW, and I'm sure you're right that they haven't really learned a lesson. However, they have to rralize the are accumulating demerits with the mothership so they may be more careful next time.

[boss_onie]

Hello,

LOW here stands for Lexus of wilmington, I think. Yeah, you two guys have a point. They will have to be careful next time, Because demerits to lexus dealership means they will not be recognize as an elite lexus dealership. Not being an elite lexus dealership means less customer for them. I hope everything will be fine after this.

Thanks for all your inputs,

onie.

[SW03ES]

You guys can believe that if you want, but Lexus USA does not have a whole lot of control over their dealerships, no carmaker does because of the strong antitrust laws in the US. They can control things like Elite of Lexus status and the interest rates for holding stock, but ultimately the dealers are all independent. Elite of Lexus status isn't all that important...

Lexus USA is probably picking up that 50% of the tab for your repair and paying LOW for the work to keep you happy. Which is great, don't get me wrong but don't infer that there is control there when there isn't. I spent several years consulting with car dealerships and developing customer retention systems for them, I know how the relationships work.

[blk_on_blk]

Wow, what a crappy thing to have happen, and I for one would have told them what needed to be done to correct the situation, not wait for them to tell me what they were going to do. The way I see it, if I brought my vehicle into a shop for anything, at the very least I will get it back in the same condition. If it comes back with damage, then it will be corrected, and corrected properly without any loss to me. If the shop gave any static about it, I would make sure things got very uncomfortable for them. I don't care why they took the vehicle out for a test drive or how it got damaged, I don't even want to hear about it, I care about the fact that I entrusted my vehicle to them, and in their care it was damaged, and it needs to be fully repaired. If they were abrasive about the 'reasons', I would just truncate that discussion and focus on how the repair was going to be made.

It doesn't matter in one bit if the vehicle is 10-years old, or if it's new. Imagine if you brought in an old classic vehicle like an old Jag or Benz to have work done on it and they damaged it. Do you think it is of importance that the vehicle is old? Absolutely not. Every vehicle has a set value depending all it's characteristics (age, make, model, condition, mileage, etc.). If I bring in a vehicle to a shop in a set condition, I WILL get it back in at least that same condition. If it is damaged at the shop, then it WILL be corrected so the vehicle has at minimum the same value/condition it was brought in with.

The comment that you weren't a "regular customer" at this dealership is totally irrelevant and absolute rubbish. I don't care if I took my vehicle to a repair shop 1000 times, or one time... if it gets damaged anywhere in there, it will be repaired without any BS and hoop-jumping or game playing. It is a case-by-case event. Any business or anyone who ever makes a comment like that is one to not do any business with and avoid like the plague, for each 'experience' in a customer transaction is the make-or-break in doing business... not the lump sum. Plus it's just one serious lame-a$$ excuse for their inability to take responsibility for their actions.

I'm very picky with my vehicles, and I have a 10-year old RX300 in nearly immaculate condition. No service place is going to tell me 'well, it's an old vehicle' as some lame excuse to try and get me to accept damage or lost value (nor should they tell ANYONE that). Not going to happen. So age of the vehicle isn't a consideration in a matter like this. I would not expect them to replace my vehicle unless it was damaged beyond total repair... and if it was, I would expect they pay out the loanable 'buy off' amount for the condition the vehicle was in when I brought it in since the vehicle would be a loss.... and not the 'wholesale price'!! How lame to even suggest that.

All in all, yes, accidents do happen, but there is an accountability and responsible parties when they do happen. It's not just "hey, these things happen... here's a lolly-pop and have a nice day." It's more of "hey, these things happen, and he's what is going to be done to correct the issue." If they don't say that, then you need to... be fair, be frank, be stern, and be reasonable. The situation will definitely be remedied without much chaos nor drama.

[boss_onie]

Hey guys,

Thank you for all your replies. Just to give you an update. I got the car march 27, It was repaired nicely, I will try to post pics later. The paint was match flawlessly. The lexus main headquarters talked with lexus of wilmington DE, and we all agreed that I will pay half for my repairs. The damage done to the car is paid by lexus 100%.

repairs done to the car were:

replace 2 air/fuel ratio sensor

replace MAF sensor

replace 2 knock sensors and wiring harness

parts and labor amount is over $2000

I only paid $609, they just declare that the two air/fuel ratio sensor to be under warranty. A/F sensor cost $256/piece.

The manager and head of service department, are now treating me nicely.

I commend and praise lexus main headquarters for helping me out, If it were not for them, Lexus of Wilmington will stay arrogant and hard on me.

To sum it all up, I want to give Lexus main a 200% for their effort in helping me, and Lexus of Wilmington Delaware a 0% for the BAD treatment and stress they caused me.

Thank you all guys for posting. I will be around.

regards,

Ron.

[SW03ES]

Thats great! Glad it worked out.

[blk_on_blk]

Yeah, really glad to hear it worked out. It just seems they could have been much more accommodating in the first place, rather than giving you such a hard time just to come out at the same endpoint. But then again, as you said, it's the dealership that got the 0%, corporate is the one who came through.

[boss_onie]

Yeah, Im also glad it turned out good. Thank you guys for all your inputs

[cduluk]

Glad it worked out good. Corporate usually does come through if you complain enough...