Brett in AK Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Hello folks, I'm brand new here and just bought a 2006 LS 430 Ultra. :) I was wondering if the 8.1 update could be shared amongst Forum members? Or is it something that is unique to one vehicle? If it could be shared, seems to me we could save a $ or two. Or is that heresy? Would appreciate your input. Brett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonystewart Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Great Idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyShaft Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Hello folks,I'm brand new here and just bought a 2006 LS 430 Ultra. :) I was wondering if the 8.1 update could be shared amongst Forum members? Or is it something that is unique to one vehicle? If it could be shared, seems to me we could save a $ or two. Or is that heresy? Would appreciate your input. Brett I believe that the title of this post regarding the rules of the board covers this topic pretty well... Forum Terms And Conditions / Nav Dvd Copies = Ban Boards and software that encourages or facilitates the theft of intellectual property have been sued in the past (Napster ring a bell?) and I am pretty sure that the management of LOC do not want to answer questions from "The Man" on why they thought it would be ok to buy a single copy of something and allow their members to copy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett in AK Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 Hello folks,I'm brand new here and just bought a 2006 LS 430 Ultra. :) I was wondering if the 8.1 update could be shared amongst Forum members? Or is it something that is unique to one vehicle? If it could be shared, seems to me we could save a $ or two. Or is that heresy? Would appreciate your input. Brett I believe that the title of this post regarding the rules of the board covers this topic pretty well... Forum Terms And Conditions / Nav Dvd Copies = Ban Boards and software that encourages or facilitates the theft of intellectual property have been sued in the past (Napster ring a bell?) and I am pretty sure that the management of LOC do not want to answer questions from "The Man" on why they thought it would be ok to buy a single copy of something and allow their members to copy it. Thank you for your input. I researched your link and could not find anything regarding sharing a DVD unless you're alluding to the last paragraph regarding copyright? I did however contact a Lexus dealership and posed the question to them who in turn contacted Toyota and the company that build the GPS. I won't go into any detail, but you might gain a little better insight if you were to call them and inquire for yourself. No encouragement or facilitation offered here, but it was refreshing to hear it from the horses mouth! Question asked / now answered. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonystewart Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Brett in AK Do you need help with a Gen 4 v7.1? Thank you for your time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyShaft Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Thank you for your input. I researched your link and could not find anything regarding sharing a DVD unless you're alluding to the last paragraph regarding copyright? I did however contact a Lexus dealership and posed the question to them who in turn contacted Toyota and the company that build the GPS. I won't go into any detail, but you might gain a little better insight if you were to call them and inquire for yourself. No encouragement or facilitation offered here, but it was refreshing to hear it from the horses mouth! Question asked / now answered. Thanks again. Hey Brett, The link I provided is simply a pinned/stickied policy of the LOC on selling copied NAV DVDs. You asked about the club sharing Nav DVDs and I figured that board policy would speak for itself without involving my own opinion in the matter. Having worked in the IT side of the entertainment industry, including the largest music company in the world and three different movie houses, I am familiar with the laws regarding copyright material and I understand why these people want to get paid for their work. In my position we did a lot of work combating piracy and frankly, it nearly ruined our industry. I guess my point is that my insight is probably fairly educated where the issue of piracy is concerned. Please provide insight if you have any on Denso/Navteq position on copying their material. If they consider the older version software to be abandoned by toyota/lexus and hence not subject to anti-piracy rules, that would make my week. Even if they supported this idea, I am pretty sure that they wouldn't be on board with the idea of treating their current $300 software as shareware. Additionally if you have information, in writing of course, stating that they do not mind if you copy their product to your heart's content and sell it/trade it, please post it. I have bought 4 updates over the years and would welcome the opportunity to get it for free in the future. Looking forward to new insight, B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett in AK Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 Thank you for your input. I researched your link and could not find anything regarding sharing a DVD unless you're alluding to the last paragraph regarding copyright? I did however contact a Lexus dealership and posed the question to them who in turn contacted Toyota and the company that build the GPS. I won't go into any detail, but you might gain a little better insight if you were to call them and inquire for yourself. No encouragement or facilitation offered here, but it was refreshing to hear it from the horses mouth! Question asked / now answered. Thanks again. Hey Brett, The link I provided is simply a pinned/stickied policy of the LOC on selling copied NAV DVDs. You asked about the club sharing Nav DVDs and I figured that board policy would speak for itself without involving my own opinion in the matter. Having worked in the IT side of the entertainment industry, including the largest music company in the world and three different movie houses, I am familiar with the laws regarding copyright material and I understand why these people want to get paid for their work. In my position we did a lot of work combating piracy and frankly, it nearly ruined our industry. I guess my point is that my insight is probably fairly educated where the issue of piracy is concerned. Please provide insight if you have any on Denso/Navteq position on copying their material. If they consider the older version software to be abandoned by toyota/lexus and hence not subject to anti-piracy rules, that would make my week. Even if they supported this idea, I am pretty sure that they wouldn't be on board with the idea of treating their current $300 software as shareware. Additionally if you have information, in writing of course, stating that they do not mind if you copy their product to your heart's content and sell it/trade it, please post it. I have bought 4 updates over the years and would welcome the opportunity to get it for free in the future. Looking forward to new insight, B Hello Billy,The information I received, per tel con, was the update could be downloaded on as many vehicles as necessary, as long as the generation was correct and you owned the vehicle(s). They further told me if I were to buy another Lexus and it didn't have the latest update, then go ahead and use the DVD! So, as you can see the DVD is not restricted or registered to only one vehicle. I'm curious if you owned more than one Lexus utilizing the same generation of GPS, and took each one into the dealership, would they charge you for each vehicle, or would they just use one DVD? Here's another scenario. If you purchased the DVD update and borrowed your friends Lexus who had an older version of the GPS information, would you be in violation of copywright laws by using your DVD in his car while on your trip? I could see where one would be in clear violation if they copied the DVD, but that's not what I'm getting at here. I am brand new to this forum and full of questions. I haven't even taken possession of my Lexus yet. I didn't see anything about this subject in previous posts and figured who better to ask? I appreciate your experience and wealth of knowledge you've expressed, but the suggestion of being banned for simply asking an innocent question I thought was perhaps a little harsh. Perhaps it could have been worded differently? I was also told the DVD must be in the player in order to utilize the updates, so the the question is really a moot point. FWIW the GPS doesn't even work here in Alaska, so you can see it was just a simple question as opposed to anythng sinister. Nuff said! Regards from a former Utahan (Moab) Brett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyShaft Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Hey Brett, Information is a good thing. I assumed from your original post that you had a sneaking suspicion that copying software might be a "bad thing"... It is entirely possible I was a little sensitive about the subject since I was recently accused of being "a monster" for suggesting that the owners of $50,000 vehicles could likely afford to buy updates verses stealing them. I can further understand the LOC being sensitive about people using their forum for anything not above-board. If I came across harsh, I apologize. My intent was to point out the posted rules so that mistakes would not be made. Software licensing is such a nightmare to navigate and the use of it really depends on the company and their official stance and on what type of use license you bought. I will say this much, if I had two vehicles with Gen 4 Nav systems, I am not sure that I would personally buy two copies. I could potentially be held liable for something like that, but under what circumstances? It really depends on their licensing: if it is a site license, then you are allowed to use it within a defined scope to your heart's content. Microsoft often sells software this way to businesses. They do however get angry when those site keys make their way onto the internet. :) It sounds like the people you talked to implied that owning a disc entitles you to use it in as many vehicles as you own. I did some light research on this subject yesterday and could not find an "official" answer other than standard "all rights reserved" language. On Navteq site in the developer section, they did state that using samples of their software and data for product development is authorized, but they clearly drew the line on developing and then selling without them getting their piece of the action. I think we do agree that buying the latest NAV software and then making copies and selling them on craigslist and ebay is pretty black and white on the "wrong" side of the issue. My own ethical question related to this regards older versions of the map data. If a company no longer sells a product and in fact will not accept payment for the software (like versions 7.1, 6.1, 5.1, etc) could this software be considered abandoned? Is it reasonable to expect me to pay good money on ebay for discontinued OEM discs when Lexus won't accept payment or receive a dime for the disc? Dunno. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKperformance Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 It is worded harshly , i agree. It is done so because a very high amount of forum users have very low morals and think that stealing of any nature is acceptable. In certain countries counterfeits and fakes (namely east Asian ones ,not necessarily the people )are second nature and it is ok to steal windows xp and vista and sell it . Lets take the car they produce that is part Chevy equinox and RX350 . They didn;t steal the car but they copied the parts exactly. It is always easy to question someone else's work when you are not the one working to make or produce it. Using a disk in all of YOUR cars is not even close to the same thing as strangers borrowing the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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