1991 Ls400 With Cloth Interior... Last Year?

[90LS400Lexus]

Just looking around for other LS400s for sale and ran across this 1991 LS400 that looks identical to mine on the outside, but the inside is gray whereas mine is tan. However, this one has cloth interior. I really wish mine had the cloth interior. Someone once said that only the 1990-91s came with cloth interior and by 1992 leather was standard. I know for sure by 1993 it was, but I am wondering if anyone has ever seen a 1992 LS400 with cloth interior, or was it gone by then? Also, I read cloth was optional and leather was standard?

ALSO - all of the LS400s I have ever seen with cloth interior seems to be gray in color. Was all cloth interiors in these cars only available in gray?

There is a local 1990-91 ES250 that I pass by daily on my way to work. It has cloth interior and no sunroof, which I guess is more common on the ES250s than the LS400s.

Here is that 1991 LS400 I was referring to.... (this one also appears to not have a sunroof) - hey, the LCD looks good! :)

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/cto/964026524.html

[90LS400Lexus]

Now this one is identical to mine... same color in and out. I wish I had this one. Has about 110K LESS miles. :) 1-owner and in MINT condition and only 107K miles. Mine would looks this nice with a good detailing I guess... and new motor mounts, painted rear bumper, coolant level sensor, power steering pump, etc. :D

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/cto/935947837.html

[TA in KC]

Those look very nice. The only fabric LS interiors I have seen were gray and burgundy. The fabric colors available were gray, burgundy, blue, and mauve.

Fabric seats were no longer available for the 1992 model year.

[oldskewel]

One piece of info I can add is that in 1991 the sunroof came in a package with the leather seats. The original owners of my '91 did not want a sunroof (good choice), and to get that they had to get cloth seats. They did an immediate aftermarket leather setup, which has held up very well and looks great.

So if you're looking for cloth seats, look for a car without a sunroof and hope they did not do an aftermarket leather install.

My car is a dark green metallic color (I forget the exact name), that basically looks black except in bright sunlight. It has a gray interior.

[eatingupblacktop]

I really wish mine had the cloth interior.

Just curious, why would you prefer cloth seats?

[1990LS400]

Just curious, why would you prefer cloth seats?

Because the cloth seats are a lot more comfortable than leather -- summer and winter. And the cloth seats wore like iron -- much better than leather. The cloth seats in my 90 LS looked like new when I sold the car after driving it from new until 183,000 miles and for 13 1/2 years.

Cloth was standard for both 1990 and 1991 and required no other options to get it:

http://www.lexus.com/contact/pdf/1990/1991LSspecs.pdf

http://www.lexus.com/contact/pdf/1990/1991LSspecs.pdf

Cloth was available on all years of the JDM Celsior version of the LS400 including the ones with the highest specification -- the ones that included rear A/C, rear reclining seats and rear audio controls.

Photos of my 1990 LS400 and its cloth interior are in my gallery: http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...m&album=131

[eatingupblacktop]

I didn't know the 400 had reclining rear seats with rear audio controls. Learn something every day.

In my experience with leather, I've found the wear and condition depends a great deal on the care they receive and what kind of pants you're wearing. For example jeans with zippered rear pockets or belts with studs, etc. I've also found cloth to collect dog hair (I've got a golden) which becomes a pain to clean because it clings to the cloth. Also the occaisional spill can wind up staining cloth. I'll give you the searing aspect of hot leather in the summer and numbing cold in the winter, but seat heaters and parking in the shade helps with that. Tried your link, but didn't work. Nevertheless, thanks for reminding me bout the gallery, think I'll pay a visit when I've got a little more time. BTW, how's the benz running?

[90LS400Lexus]

BTW, how's the benz running?

Well, its basically like 1990LS400 said. I think they are more comfortable for me personally and the past few later model cars I have had have been leather interior cars. <_< Also the interior on all of the leather cars I have had have been nice and well cared for, as it is in my Lexus and Mercedes now, but I think I would like a change to have a LS400 with cloth. I would imagine that the interior would also be quieter? Toyotas of the early 90s seem to have a cloth interior thats virtually indestructable. I had a 1993 Camry LE with the upgraded cloth interior that was like brand new and it was comfortable. I like leather though, because its easier to clean and you can get in/out easier. Slide in and out easier. :)

About the Benz - well, which one are you referring to? :) I do not remember mentioning my last two Mercedes, but I think I have a different one than I think you are thinking of. If you are referring to my current 1988 model, its doing just fine.

About two or three years ago I had a 1985 380SE. Is that the one you are referring to? Well, I sold that one in 2007 I think not too long after I bought my 2000 Toyota Tundra (which I have also sold). Last summer I briefly owned another Mercedes - a 1984 190D. It was the smallest one for 1984 and it was a diesel. It was a 1-owner car and like new. A little slow, but it ran great and got 42 mpg! I loved it, but it was too small for me. So.... I sold it to a guy in Asheville North Carolina, making a $1500 profit! Then I bought a larger Benz - a 1988 300SEL (which was the largest body style in 1988). Its the big S-Class, but also being a SEL, its the long wheelbase model. Its the 6-cylinder though, which I wanted rather than the V8 models (420SEL and 560SEL). Its not nearly as powerful as the V8 Benzes or my LS400, but the inline 6 MB engines are bulletproof. The one I have are known for headgasket issues, but I think mine has already been professionally replaced - because its fine now. If its not been replaced and something happens down the road, its not a big deal as these engines are super easy to work on. This tank rides like a boat, but handles very well. As nice as the LS400s ride is, the Mercedes has it beat. I guess because its where the Mercedes has softer suspension and a much longer wheelbase than my LS400.

Here is a picture of the old beast incase its the old Mercedes I had is the one you are referring to.... as mentioned, I do not think I posted this one before. I normally do not mention my Mercedes on a Lexus site or my Lexus on the Mercedes site. Lexus owners usually hate Mercedes and Mercedes owners usually hate Lexus. I like them both. :)

[90LS400Lexus]

And this was the one I had before the one I have now (but after my silver 85' S-Class) - as you can see, the interior was much smaller - but this car was clean as new... check out how clean it was around the door seals and floors/trunk....

[DrJfrmLA]

I'm with you 90LS. I have an '04 LS 430 and an '04 S430 (W220) Mercedes. I've had an ES300, GS300 and now the LS Lexus, and I had a W108 and W124 (280SEL 4.5 and 300E) and now the S-class Mercedes. They are both great brands in their own right, but they are also very different cars. The love of each is a matter of preference. My wife drives our LS and isn't interested in being more than a passenger in the S-class. I'm pretty much the opposite, although I enjoy driving the LS. I don't get why the owners of one hate the owners of the other; you say to-may-toe and I say to-mah-toe. Event thought they are supposed to target the same buyer, I don't think they do. Anyway, glad to meet another forum member who likes both big Benzes and big Lexuses.

[90LS400Lexus]

I'm with you 90LS. I have an '04 LS 430 and an '04 S430 (W220) Mercedes. I've had an ES300, GS300 and now the LS Lexus, and I had a W108 and W124 (280SEL 4.5 and 300E) and now the S-class Mercedes. They are both great brands in their own right, but they are also very different cars. The love of each is a matter of preference. My wife drives our LS and isn't interested in being more than a passenger in the S-class. I'm pretty much the opposite, although I enjoy driving the LS. I don't get why the owners of one hate the owners of the other; you say to-may-toe and I say to-mah-toe. Event thought they are supposed to target the same buyer, I don't think they do. Anyway, glad to meet another forum member who likes both big Benzes and big Lexuses.

I agree Dr. I think its where one person may have owned one and had back luck and switched to another, or heard bad things about one, then went with another, etc. I have had good luck for the most part with both of them. All of the ones I have owned have been older models with over 150K and still good ones. I cannot see that one is any worse than the other. Parts are both costly for both, but my Mercedes is much easier to work on than the Lexus. That all changed though, because starting in 1992, the Mercedes S-Class became a very complex car, especially the V8 models. The 1991 S-Class was based on a design that had been in the states since 1981, so its pretty easy. Mine, being an I-6 model, is easy to work on. I have never seen spark plugs so easy to change.... plugs on even the 90-94 LS, well.... :)

I like the Lexus because its a well built and comfortable car. I like the Mercedes for the same reasons, but also because it has classic styling that was so popular in the entire 1980s decade. I just like older cars.

Sounds like you have some nice cars. I love the W220 S-Class and the LS430s. I would like to have a 2001 LS430 and a 2000 S430. I have heard the early W220s are very costly to maintain, but I love them anyway. I know a lady with a gold 2000 Mercedes S430 she bought new. She was always having issues/recalls with it, but it was a beautiful car. Sadly she had a stroke and can no longer drive, so I was told that the car sets in the garage, where it has been since 2004, with 24K on the odometer. :) I miss her, she was a good friend and such a nice lady. She had/has three dogs that would ride in there with her... they would get all up in it - on the dash, rear package shelf, etc. We have dogs and I love them, but if I had a nice car, I would not let them ride in it. I have an old car for that, but if I had the $$$$$$$ she had, I guess it would not matter as a new S-Class could be my work/play car. :)

[DrJfrmLA]

You are right about the '00-'02 W220s. They are extremely complex and it took three model years to get the bugs out. The early ones have frighteningly expensive airmatic suspension problems (struts are $1700 a corner), and many of the electronics aren't well sorted. The '03s were much better, and the '04-'06s were very reliable. The '04 got a 7-speed transmission and DVD-based nav, and I'm averaging 23 mpg in mixed driving and 27-29 at highway speeds (on premium fuel, of course). The '04 LS got a 6-speed tranny and HID adaptive lights so it's pretty "new" though the 460s are exciting. Our LS doesn't have nav, so I can't compare, but I've heard the Lexus nav isn't as good as the MRZ. The real exciting thing for me is the adjustable suspension in the S-class. When it is set at its stiffest, it will suck the doors off a lot of "sport sedans" on a cloverleaf. I suckered a kid in a rice-burner down a decreasing-radius not long ago that left him headed out across a field. I'm sure an old man in a luxo sedan wasn't the teacher he expected for the lesson he learned. You can fling 5100 pounds around pretty well when the suspension is sorted. In my opinion the W220 is the best looking S-class Mercedes has made. I don't much care for the W221. I do agree the classic '80s cars are hard to beat.

Thanks for your comments.

[90LS400Lexus]

You are right about the '00-'02 W220s. They are extremely complex and it took three model years to get the bugs out. The early ones have frighteningly expensive airmatic suspension problems (struts are $1700 a corner), and many of the electronics aren't well sorted. The '03s were much better, and the '04-'06s were very reliable. The '04 got a 7-speed transmission and DVD-based nav, and I'm averaging 23 mpg in mixed driving and 27-29 at highway speeds (on premium fuel, of course). The '04 LS got a 6-speed tranny and HID adaptive lights so it's pretty "new" though the 460s are exciting. Our LS doesn't have nav, so I can't compare, but I've heard the Lexus nav isn't as good as the MRZ. The real exciting thing for me is the adjustable suspension in the S-class. When it is set at its stiffest, it will suck the doors off a lot of "sport sedans" on a cloverleaf. I suckered a kid in a rice-burner down a decreasing-radius not long ago that left him headed out across a field. I'm sure an old man in a luxo sedan wasn't the teacher he expected for the lesson he learned. You can fling 5100 pounds around pretty well when the suspension is sorted. In my opinion the W220 is the best looking S-class Mercedes has made. I don't much care for the W221. I do agree the classic '80s cars are hard to beat.

Thanks for your comments.

Your welcome. 23 MPG is very impressive on a W220. Interesting that the LS does not have nav - I thought it was standard by then - shows how much I know about the later cars.... lol. I almost bought a 1996 Acura 3.5RL with nav. option and for 1996, this was quite a high-tech feature. :)

Yes, I thought it was disappointing about how troublesome the early W220s were. Oh yes, that suspension was a nightmare I am told. My 300SEL has standard suspension, but still rides like a cloud. In 1988, only the 560SEL and 560SEC/SL had the air suspension and I was really wanting to avoid those.

The early W220s were beautiful cars and I loved the interior, especially the instrument cluster. I almost bought what could have been a nightmare. I had found a local 2000 S430 (first year of the W220) for only $6500. The negative was that this car had 319K miles! It had obviously been a good car to have went so many miles, but at that mileage, two of uncles that are Mercedes owners warned me against it. Yes, it was cheap initially, but I could have ended up paying $10K+ in near future repairs/maintainence? Its strange that the early S-Class, for example the 1981 S-Class sedans were superior and reliable cars even in their first year, but they were much more simple cars then and this design lasted through 1991. My uncle has a 1992 300SE (W140) that was bought brand new by his father in November of 1991 - they are beautiful cars, but like the early W220s, they were complex and had alot of problems, but by 1996, had most of the bugs worked out. I have drove his car before and love it. It rides superbly, has excellent seats and instrument panel and like my W126, is built like a tank. My W126 seems as good as a car, but his has more responsive handling and is more powerful. His has a larger 3.2L I6. Looking at the engine under the hood, its huge for a 6-cylinder. He had to get the evaporator core replaced in his, which was a $2200 repair, but its even more in some areas/shops.

The early (1992-95) W140s had problems with evaporator cores (which required the entire dash to be removed and was very costly), engine wiring harnesses (wires under the hood were designed to be biodegradable). By 1996, the wiring harness had been redesigned and the evaporator cores were much better. Back when I was looking, I was told that a 1998-99 W140 is the best one to have, but I was looking for something cheaper, so I was looking for 1992-1995 W140s, especially a 6-cylinder, but had no luck finding one locally in good condition for less than $5K, so I decided to just get another W126, so I bought my 1988 300SEL. Unlike your Mercedes, mine is very far from a powerhouse. It has a small 3.0L inline 6-cylinder engine pulling a heavy LWB S-Class Mercedes, but its powerful enough for me. I just do not want to get in any races in it unless its against an old 4-cylinder import or diesel Mercedes. :D My LS400 definitely has the power advantage over the 300SEL. <_<

You hear alot about electrical problem on German cars, but out of the four Mercedes I have owned, I have never had an electrical problem. I have never had non-working windows, locks, lights, heat/AC, radios, etc. All were 80s cars and I thought it was pretty impressive.

Well, I have also owned the other competetors - I also had a 1992 Acura Legend, which was Hondas luxury car in the late 80s/early 90s, but it could not match the LS400s advancements. They only had a V6, but it was a large engine and pretty powerful. What I found interesting is that my 92' Acura Legend had a longer wheelbase than my LS400s of that vintage. Interior wise, my 92' Legend was a good competetor against the LS400. It was not as nicely appointed, but it had a nice high quality, squeak/rattle free interior and you could see the "Honda quality" inside of it. All panels matched nicely and the interior seemed to weather well, as it did on the 90-93 Accords of that era. My Legend was a very low production base model that did not have sunroof or leather interior. It had a nice cloth interior. I had a 91' Accord as well in the early 2000s, with over 200K and the interior was still like new and no squeaks, etc. The late 80s-mid 90s Camrys have a high quality interior, much like the LS400s of the same era and the Accord of the same years was the same way and the Legends were the same way. My beef with the 91-95 Acura Legends were the high rate of head-gasket failures and oil burning on the 3.2L V6 engines. Acura fixed this with the 96' redesign with the new 3.5L engine.

Wow, I better go, I did alot of rambling. :D

[90LS400Lexus]

Oh, here is the rare cloth interior of my old 1992 Acura Legend.... I really loved this car, but it the valve seals were getting weak, so I sold it.

Notice how much longer the wheelbase is than the 1990-94 LS400, but the ride was not near as smooth. In fact, I think my old 1991 Accord LX 4dr had a better ride.

These were taken in winter of 2005....