Sudden Unintended Acceleration

[CanadaCraig]

I don't appreciate the sarcasm - SRK.

No - of course I don't hover my left foot over the brake pedal on my manual transmission NSX. What has THAT got to do with it? If you think right-foot braking is best [on a car with an automatic transmission] good for you. I don't happen to agree. As far as you never personally having to accelerate to avoid an accident - that's been YOUR experience. It hasn't been mine. [in all the years I've been driving] I'm sure there are many cats and dogs and cars backing out of driveways that are grateful that I chose NOT to slam on the brakes but - rather - chose to accelerate AROUND 'them'.

Craig!! :)

[SKperformance]

I don;t agree with the hovering but i already stated that.

I do agree that throttle regualtion and braking is needed in emergency manouvers .

[SRK]

Craig I wasn't trying to be sarcastic, and if you took it that way, my apologies.

My point was that if you drive both cars differently, then your feet are trained to respond in two ways, and that in itself could be dangerous.

And yes there may be times when accelerating is an option, but for me, I haven't found one yet, and I think we would agree that braking is the better option in most cases.

[joon_lee]

My wife was just involved in an accident in her 470 a few weeks back. She was backing out of our garage, then put in in drive to move forward. At that point, she said that the car hesitated a few times and then just took off. She demolished the car accross the street and hit my neighbor's mailbox. There were some kids playing close by, by thankfully nobody was hurt.

We reported this incident to NHTSA and called the lexus rep as well. The car is still in the garage waiting to be inspected by lexus. Even if they examine and find nothing, I completely believe my wife that she did not accidentally hit the accelerator.

I was thinking about having an independent (i.e., non Lexus) mechanic inspect the vehical, but I don't know how to get in touch with people with expertise in this area. Any suggestion?

[VGR]

Chalk it up to women drivers. Unlike most men, most women panic and fail to hit the brake pedal or emergency brake or turn off the ignition or shift the transmission to Nuetral. Scatter brain women were the primary complainers in the Audi case too. Women also file more frivolous personal injury lawsuits than men. And frivolous class action lawsuits against big companies.

[SW03ES]

Oh please, don't start this stupid male chauvanist crap again. The man's wife was involved in a car accident, how about being supportive instead of calling her an idiot? What a jerky thing to say.

Ignore this guy joon, if he does it again I'll suspend his account. Rudeness isn't tolerated at the LOC.

The topic here is not women drivers it is uninetended acceleration. Any posts otherwise will be removed by me.

Anyways, all of the research into the Lexuses and other vehicles accelerating unintendedly has shown that its ALWAYS driver error. The NHTSA did a complete investigation of the LS430 and found that there was nothing inherant to the vehicle that causes unintended acceleration. There is currently a similar investigation of the ES, Camry, Sienna, RX, Highlander, and Solara. I'm confident the response there will be the same.

There are a couple things that could have happened. What is inherant in Lexus or any other vehicle with an electronic throttle is a slight lag when beginning accelration, from a stop or at speed. If you overcorrect for this lag as it sounds like your wife may have done once the throttle kicks in it will accelerate at whatever position the pedal is at, which can be quite startling.

Another possibility is your wife may have hit the gas before the truck has successfully shifted into drive. I see people doing this all the time, they back out of driveways and shift to drive before they've stopped and let the car ride back on the transmission and then ride forward and they never actually stop. Aside from being really hard on the transmission this can be very dangerous. If you apply the gas before ther shift is complete it will hesitate, and when it shifts again, the acceleration will be wherever the gas pedal is placed, if its placed too far down again you can loose control.

The main cursor for me is when your wife said "it hesitated a minute". If her foot wasn't on the gas there would be no hesitation to feel. Not saying she's a bad driver, at this point in our lives so many things we do when driving are simply automatic when something traumatic happens like an accident, we don't remember exactly what we did because we do it beneath the level of conciousness.

I'd bet money they're going to find no problem. Glad everyones okay!

[alaska_LX]

I will never own a domestic again pure crap. There is never a toyota or honda complaint, as tehy always look after the vehicle they made .Not abandoning it after the infancy or warranty is up.

Hi everyone- new here. Sorry but Honda and Toyota are guilty of the same behavior: Honda with its transmission problems on the 2000-03 Accord and Acura CL/TL (acknowledfged design problem, refused to do a recall), and Toyota with its engine oil gelling problem (refused to do a recall, suggests more frequent oil changes). Extending a warranty instead of fixing a design problem is a cop-out, and Honda and Toyota are just as guilty as the domestic automakers.

[SW03ES]

Actually the engine oil gelling problem was addressed when the engine was upgraded from 3.0 liters to 3.3 liters.

[alaska_LX]

Actually the engine oil gelling problem was addressed when the engine was upgraded from 3.0 liters to 3.3 liters.

That is fine, but it still doesn't address the issue of Toyota choosing to avoid a recall to fix what is a design problem.

[SW03ES]

But what can they recall? Its the way the engine is built, do they replace all the engines? The problem only happens when owners fail to follow the reccomended maintenance schedule. So what they've said was continue to follow the reccomended maintenance schedule, if the oil still gells they'll replace the engine. That seems pretty sporting to me. In fact Lexus even will cover the engine if the owner is able to produce receipts for YEARLY oil changes, thats less than 35% of the oil changes Lexus reccomends. I don't understand why people think Lexus is slighting them on the oil gelling issue. If you don't follow the maintenance schedule the warranty is void, we all know that as car owners. If you follow the reccomended maintenance schedule the oil won't gel. So whats the problem? I dont get it.

[alaska_LX]

But what can they recall? Its the way the engine is built, do they replace all the engines? The problem only happens when owners fail to follow the reccomended maintenance schedule. So what they've said was continue to follow the reccomended maintenance schedule, if the oil still gells they'll replace the engine. That seems pretty sporting to me. In fact Lexus even will cover the engine if the owner is able to produce receipts for YEARLY oil changes, thats less than 35% of the oil changes Lexus reccomends. I don't understand why people think Lexus is slighting them on the oil gelling issue. If you don't follow the maintenance schedule the warranty is void, we all know that as car owners. If you follow the reccomended maintenance schedule the oil won't gel. So whats the problem? I dont get it.

The Toyota manual recommends 5k oil changes, not 3k. I have friends that have had the problem even though they stuck to 5k and even 3k oil change intervals- the problem accumulates over time, so even an engine with 3k change intervals will likely have the problem by the time it reaches 100k. It is a design flaw, and it should be fixed. What is causing this problem- ppl not changing their oil often enough, or a design flaw in the engine? The answer is a design flaw in the engine. The gelling problem will eventually occur in every engine, so it should be fixed in every engine. Toyota is not addressing the core problem, they are tryying to get out of as many cases as possible by blaming the owner when it is actually a known design flaw they should take responsibility for.

[SW03ES]

I never said the manual called for 3k changes, I said it called for 5k changes.

As for it "always happening" according to our resident Lexus tech (who does not work for Lexus" this is not true. I will find you some quotes.

[alaska_LX]

I never said the manual called for 3k changes, I said it called for 5k changes.

As for it "always happening" according to our resident Lexus tech (who does not work for Lexus" this is not true. I will find you some quotes.

Why is this "Special Policy Adjustment" only offered on 1997-2001 Camrys, Solaras, Siennas, Avalons, Celicas and Highlanders as well as 1997-2001 Lexus ES300s and RX300s, and not any of the older or newer Toyotas? Because those SPECIFIC years are the ones with the design flaws!

Toyota made a design CHANGE to fix this problem in newer engines (see http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=38921 ), so it obviously indicates they are aware of the design flaw. Toyota initially said there was no problem and blamed it on the consumer, then when the complaints grewe louder, they said they would only cover sludge repairs for 1 year, more complaints so now they say they will pay for sludge-related repairs for 8 years from the date of purchase- most people buy Toyotas to keep them for a long time, well over 100k miles, so I feel this is inadequate. They wait for people to have the problem before they fix it even though it is an acknowledged design problem. Blaming the consumer is not the answer here- I have friends who have skipped an oil change or 3 on their older Toyotas and have had no problems whatsoever. The reason there is such a big problem with these specific models is because there is an underlying design flaw. They should step up to the plate and do a recall.

[SW03ES]

I don't think anyone is saying it isn't a design flaw. The question is what can Lexus feasibly do about it, replace all of the engines in their most popular model? Toyota would go out of business. You've got to be reasonable. 8 years is more than the national average legnth of time people keep vehicles. Personally I have seen and see plenty of older ES' on the road with hundreds of thousands of miles that are operating just fine. We have a family friend that has 3 ES, a 91 250, a 94 300 and a 96 300. The 91 has over 300k, the 94 over 200k and the 96 over 100k. No smoking, no adverse signs of wear or gelling or whatever. Just well maintained cars that have lived and continue to live out their serviceable lives well. All I'm saying is its not the huge across the board issue you're saying it is, if you maintain the cars properly you'll most likely be fine.

If you feel this strongly about this, strongly enough to ressurect a 7 month old thread to discuss it then why do you drive a Lexus product?

Here's the thread I was going to quote you BTW http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...6205&hl=gelling

[alaska_LX]

We have a family friend that has 3 ES, a 91 250, a 94 300 and a 96 300. The 91 has over 300k, the 94 over 200k and the 96 over 100k. No smoking, no adverse signs of wear or gelling or whatever. Just well maintained cars that have lived and continue to live out their serviceable lives well. All I'm saying is its not the huge across the board issue you're saying it is, if you maintain the cars properly you'll most likely be fine.

If you feel this strongly about this, strongly enough to ressurect a 7 month old thread to discuss it then why do you drive a Lexus product?

Here's the thread I was going to quote you BTW http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...6205&hl=gelling

None of the ES' you mention are affected by this problem. The problem is only found in 1997-2001 Camrys, Solaras, Siennas, Avalons, Celicas and Highlanders as well as 1997-2001 Lexus ES300s and RX300s, so I'm not surprised those older ES' have held up so well. It is a huge across the board issue on the 97-01's. If you maintain your car properly, you'll just see the problem at a later mileage.

I resurrected this only because I am new here and saw it for the first time. Why do I still drive a lexus product? I don't understand the connection. I was merely responding to someone's comment on this discussion- they stated that Ford and Chrysler don't stand behind their products like Toyota and Honda do, and I pointed out how Toyotra and Honda both avoided recalls even though they had acknowledged design faults, so they are no better than the domestic automakers in that respect.

Just because someone has a problem with one aspect of a company doesn't mean they will abandon the company completely- constructive criticism and suggesting improvements is what I'm doing. I was merely pointing out that all car companies do this to some extent, and I believe Toyota could do better. Moreover, I would never buy a lexus affected by this problem- I bought a '97 LX after doing a lot of research. If I had come across a problem like this on the LX, I would never have considered the vehicle.

[Natsume]

[2los]

I've joined this forum today looking for other's who might have experienced sudden acceleration. My mom has a lexus ls430 which also accelerated out of control, exactly the same way as the original starter of this thread stated as to what happen to his lexus ls430. If you have also experienced sudden acceleration, please email me t2los@netzero.net

thank you