How Did You Take Off Your Crankshaft Pulley Bolt

[saltyreefguy]

i am in the process of changing out the oil seal, off my wifes 96 es300. Since i don't have a sst tool for it

have any of you guys taken off any certain way? also is the bolt counterclockwise threaded or standard? thanks

in advance for any ideas..

[saltyreefguy]

well, i found and searched many ways this is done, guess i better make a choice..

[wwest]

well, i found and searched many ways this is done, guess i better make a choice..

Just a suggestion...

Put a piston at BDC, Bottom Dead Center, compression stroke, fill the cylinder with fresh oil and install the spark plug.

Just remember not to crank the engine until you have removed the spark plug and cranked the engine over enough times to expunge the oil.

Never tried it myself but I keep running upon this question.

[saltyreefguy]

thanks for that suggestion, but i think i'll take a different route, (not to say it would not work, since it has not been tried) but i'm not a person to be putting anything inside the cyclinder hole, to me only thing that stays inside there is compression gas. i did find the thread regarding another person tring to take out the same pulley bolt...

[LoveLearn]

From memory about 2 years ago, I think I finally prevented wheel rotation by putting manual transmission in 5th gear to minimize gear ratio torque transmitted to brakes. Then I mechanically locked front brake disk(s). I don't recall exactly how I prevented their rotation but a screwdriver projecting from air-flow passage between sandwiched disks or vice grip on disk are common strategies. Automatic transmission's require other crank immobilization strategies.

Yes, that pulley bolt is standard counter-clock to loosen. I had a VERY tough time applying enough torque to break it free.

First I tried my longest 1/2" drive ratchet handle which is about 18" long. I used a socket-drive extension shaft so the socket wrench could be outside the wheel well. While it's been years since weight lifting days, my dead lift was just over 500 pounds and I have a history of breaking Craftsman 3/8" sockets without cheater bars. But this tough dog was too tough for me to turn by hand.

I took lunch and considered this insult. The Lexus had defeated me. I had been pulling up on the wrench handle with my right hand while trying to hold the left end down as it was connected to the socket extension shaft.

New plan: To deliver torque to the pulley bolt, I created an extension shaft support so I could push down on a socket wrench instead of pulling up on the handle. To make that support, I cut a "V" slot across the end of a wood 4"x4", then cut that wood to length so when vertically standing on pavement, the "V" cut groove elevation closely matched the engine's crank pulley center bolt elevation. Getting ready to apply some serious torque here. Supported 1/2" socket extension with socket on pulley at one end and the 4x4 short post V-slot at its other end. I knew I was going to need to extend my socket wrench with a tubing "cheater bar" since I can pull up several times my body weight and that had failed. I learned long ago that cheater bars are a prescription for breaking ratchet mechanisms in socket wrenches. So I decided to use a non-ratcheting "breaker bar" socket wrench. I slid a 3 foot long pipe over the breaker bar and bounced my full body weight on the fully-extended cheater bar. Result? I don't know if that's when I first bent one of my 1/2" drive extension tubes on this project. Or maybe that occurred after I replaced the 3 foot cheater bar pipe with a 6 foot cheater bar. I bent 2 different 1/2" socket extensions. I was using heavy 6-point impact sockets rather than much weaker 12-point non-impact-rated sockets. After the first 1/2" extension bent, I tried another, hoping it would not also fail. Sadly, both failed.

New plan 2: Buy a 3/4" socket, 3/4" extension shaft & 3/4" breaker bar. Called phone-book-listed pawn shops and quickly found one willing to sell me those three used pieces for $22 + taxes. Next trial involved the 4x4 support stand with V-slot top, the newly-acquired 3/4" socket tools plus one 6-foot cheater extension pipe. Amazingly, I bounced my full body weight a few times on the cheater bar near its end. Then a loud bang report that could be heard inside the house occurred and the cheater bar moved down, torquing the socket counter clockwise beyond some very high threshold resistance point. What had failed? I'm happy to report that only that tough-dog bolt had broken free. Ridiculously tight.

Ok, now that you have that pulley free, know that it is also you engine's "vibration damper." It is made from an inner and outer section connected by an elastic rubber-like connection band. These vibration dampers can and DO separate at their elastic connection barriers, yet when they separate, that separation only disconnects rotationally. They don't fly apart while bolted to your crankshaft when their elastic connection band separates. Instead, they just slip.

Results of failed crank-pulley/vibration-damper elastic band connection:

First you'll notice that your alternator light flickers on and off. Why? Because the engine crank is spinning normally but that pulley also drives your alternator by way of the attached belt.

Second, timing belt marks no longer continuously align with the crank-pulley mark. Why would it? After all, the rotary connection between the pulley assembly's inner section and outer section slips. Yes, it transmits enough torque to spin the alternator, but not enough torque to keep their rotational ratio speeds locked.

You may think that you'd hear noise from that slipping. But I've seen one that has slipped for several years without producing enough noise to alert anyone to that failure. I ONLY discovered it when I was asked to change the water pump which prudent time-allocation models suggest is time to also replace the timing belt. Slightly dimmer than normal headlights resulted from lower battery charging voltage due to that internally-slipping vibration damper/pulley.

How to fix:

Easy high-priced solution is buy a new replacement vibration damper/pulley. As I recall, that's about $300!

Alternate strategies:

1) Buy a used but hopefully not used-up vibration damper/pulley. I believe these parts have a finite service life between failures at their elastic connection band. So it is almost impossible to estimate the remaining service life these have when their previous use history is unknown. I feel that buying one used which has not yet failed is comparable to buying a used incandescent light bulb. It may last a long time or it may fail very soon. At least with light bulbs, globe darkening serves as a warning indicator. Whereas used but not-yet-failed elastic bands show no warning signs.

2) Clean elastic band slipping surfaces with solvents, wire brush to create "tooth" surface, then rebond with high-temperature Silicone sealer. Warm over overnight in home oven to about 300 degrees F. to drive out silicone sealer's "vehicle" solvent in gaseous form. That toughens the bond much faster than room-temperature curing. I tried that and it worked for a week. Then a young-behaving male family member drove the car. That was the first time that rebonded assembly was subjected to high rpms since rebonding. When they drove back, the newly-resealed elastic bond had failed again. About 50 years ago, auto part stores commonly offered kits to rebond inner sections to outer sections of failed vibration dampers. Typical results were satisfactory for daily-driver use, but never lasted if raced. Sure satisfaction typically depended on user driving induced maximum stress limits. Nothing has changed except higher typical rpm bands used by today's engines lowers that threshold. For the female Lexus owner's driving, it held. When lead-foot borrowed the car, the bond failed. How's that for a 1:1 correlation?

3) Consider at your own risk.

Step 1 - align timing mark locations so crank key and outer pulley section's alignment matches factory setting.

Maybe we need to post a photo to precisely show that rotational relationship. Print photo to full sized and set assembly on photo to show where factory alignment occurs. Then scribe or otherwise mark the two parts so future realignments are easily done in the field or on the car for timing belt timing.

Step 2 - tack weld or braze or silver-solder the outer and inner sections solidly together, bridging across the elastic gap.

I know of only one case where that has been done. User observed no vibration nor failure since fusing those parts

together by four tack welds. That was over 100,000 miles ago and it still seems to be performing as well as a new part except for what ever tiny vibration-arresting qualities that elastic band contributes. Super cheap. I suspect it is more durable than a new replacement part.

I am neither suggesting nor endorsing this unauthorized procedure. But from a cost/benefit perspective, it certainly seems worth considering. Four quick tack welds preserving alignment and balance would quickly and cheaply put the car back on the road.

Just speculating, but if any new vibration were observed after this, I'd pull the pulley and redo it.

Grinding off each of those tack welds would take less than 30 seconds. Welding "pulls" when molten metal freezes, so that freezing pull can move parts. Pulling slightly bent RWD driveshafts by weld pulling has been done for many decades.

Many engines have been factory fitted with failure-prone vibration-arresting flexing linkages. Navistar 7.3 diesel Ford truck flexing-link flywheels are an infamous example. Thousands of solid replacement flywheels are now in service without reports of increased manual transmission failures from transmitting pulse loads those flexing links were supposed to arrest. Many Japanese-built engine racers replace stock failure-prone flexi-link crank-pulley/vibration-dampers with solid replacements, also without reports of resulting failures. If the inner and outer sections are accurately aligned and concentric, I think this would be a safe repair procedure. The person who did it didn't use a rotating mechanism with dial indicators to make sure the result was concentric to machine-shop standards. A magnetic mount dial indicator could be used while rotating the crank one revolution to check concentric alignment. They just put it in a vice, welded across opposite sides making four tack welds and are still running it. Lots of choices here.

Use all this at your own risk. I'm only reporting experience-based procedures which worked.

John

[saltyreefguy]

thanks for the thoughts and ideas, i guess thats my current problem is not enough body weight(178)and breaker bar not long enough, this morning i tried heating it up then trying to un=torque with my husky pro impact wrench and no avail. so i tried my snap on hand torque tool used with hammer, nothing... called couple lexus parts and service didn't even bother to help me, couldn't or wouldn't even advice me if the bolt was clockwise torqure or counterclockwise, (they didn't even know), so i figure the forums was the next best place to search and research my problem.

lovelearn thanks awhole lot, will be using alot of your info. thanks.

[saltyreefguy]

thanks for the thoughts and ideas, i guess thats my current problem is not enough body weight(178)and breaker bar not long enough, this morning i tried heating it up then trying to un=torque with my husky pro impact wrench and no avail. so i tried my snap on hand torque tool used with hammer, nothing... called couple lexus parts and service didn't even bother to help me, couldn't or wouldn't even advice me if the bolt was clockwise torqure or counterclockwise, (they didn't even know), so i figure the forums was the next best place to search and research my problem.

lovelearn thanks awhole lot, will be using alot of your info. thanks.

[saltyreefguy]

wow, i can't believe that i am still stuck at taking this ridiculous crank bolt off, i am doing the allen wrench wedge in the flywheel were they meet method, even with the break bar, it will not budge and definitly no room to put on a extension pipe for leverage, i don't know how some of you guys did it this way. since the pulley is way inside the wheel well, even the smallest extension pipe kinda hits everything like the rotors, spring. etc.. i just recieved my chain wrench by mail, guess i give that try or go buy another impact wrench made for a 18wheeler truck..

ps. does any have any suggestion on which impact will knock this bolt off? thanks.

[wwest]

thanks for the thoughts and ideas, i guess thats my current problem is not enough body weight(178)and breaker bar not long enough, this morning i tried heating it up then trying to un=torque with my husky pro impact wrench and no avail. so i tried my snap on hand torque tool used with hammer, nothing... called couple lexus parts and service didn't even bother to help me, couldn't or wouldn't even advice me if the bolt was clockwise torqure or counterclockwise, (they didn't even know), so i figure the forums was the next best place to search and research my problem.

lovelearn thanks awhole lot, will be using alot of your info. thanks.

I think it would be a SURE bet that the bolt tightens opposite the direction the engine turns.

[saltyreefguy]

i wish that was the case, but its a normal threaded bolt, i checked with the dealer just to inquiry about a bolt in stock, and also i did asked if the bolt was threaded the opposite or regular and of course, he replied its a standard bolt...

[saltyreefguy]

Can anyone else chime in and verify this, is the crank bolt standard tighten right and loosen left/counterclockwise?

[SteveH in NH]

Can anyone else chime in and verify this, is the crank bolt standard tighten right and loosen left/counterclockwise?

Hi "salty",

I recently replaced the timing belt and idler pulleys on my 99 ES300. The pulley bolt is standard, meaning that you would rotate it counter-clockwise to loosen. Fortunately or unfortunately, Lexus uses thread-lock and therefore a great amount of torque is needed to break it free. I'd say somewhere around the 250 lb-ft (spec for this bolt is 159 lb-ft).

To hold the pulley/damper in place, I purchased the following tool from Sjdiscounttools (http://www.SJDiscountTools.com )

Schley Products 64300 SCH64300 1 $61.30

Harmonic Damper Pulley Holding Tool

You will also need a puller to remove the pulley/damper from the crankshaft. I used the two bolts that came with the schley holding tool with a bar type puller since they fit into the threaded holds of the pulley/damper.

Hope this helps. Best of luck!

[saltyreefguy]

thanks, came out to be true as usual. lefty loosey, righty tighty..

[G and C Johnstone]

There may be a way. With a North South engine it is possible to use the cranking power of the starting motor assisted by a few inches of wind up for the wrench handle against something that can take the whack. Remove head lamp bulbs. I broke three out of four on my Holden HZ Statesman with socket handle hitting the chassis.

[jet_a_jockey]

I've done several of these on different toyota engines, and there are a few methods that have worked best. First is to get a hammering type impact, 3/4 or 1 inch works best with plenty of PSI to push it. If you can't get one, then another method is to put a breaker bar on it (can use a pipe, something like for fencing). You need leverage. The other thing to do is to take an old belt and wrap it around the pulley to keep it from moving. This is obviously done best with 2 people, as one can wrap the belt and twist it on a big screwdriver and then apply pressure to tighten down on it against something. While doing this, the other guy can use the breaker bar on the bolt itself.

Another thing is I've had to use a 3/4 impact several times, as in trying to break it loose, running low on air, trying again. I've done that 5 times consecutively and had one come loose, so even if it seems like its not doing anything it may be jarring it loose slowly, so don't give up on it with the impact too quickly.

The whole 'using the starter' thing scares me as a somewhat small project could turn into a big problem on the other side of the engine if things go awry.

I assume that you got it taken care of by now, so congrats lol :D

[LoveLearn]

"Lexus uses thread-lock and therefore a great amount of torque is needed to break it free.

I'd say somewhere around the 250 lb-ft"

Is that supposed to be some kind of humor?

In the case of the Lexus 3VZ-FE crank pulley I removed, before it broke free I clearly applied

over 800 lb-ft before it cracked free making a sound about as loud as a small pistol.

If it only took 250 lb-ft to crack these free, we wouldn't be having this discussion and I wouldn't

have bent two 1/2" socket set parts by bouncing body weight on long cheater-extension bars.

John

[spalkin]

You need a socket, extension and breaker bar. Place the assembly onto the bolt with the bar resting up into the shallow V created by the frame crossing the lower control arm. No need to disconnect plugs, just get on the key and bump it over then very quickly (I mean immediately) turn it off.

You'll then get out of the car, walk around and see the breaker bar hanging straight down. The bolt is loose.

You're right about not being able to put enough force on it to break it loose. And using an impact wrench only plays with it because it's not locked down.

The force that the starter puts on it is incredible. After I did mine for the first time I knew that's the way to go. It's simple.

[LoveLearn]

Jet-A-Jockey said, "The whole 'using the starter' thing scares me as a somewhat small project

could turn into a big problem on the other side of the engine if things go awry."

I can't improve on those words.

While I don't doubt that using the starter can break these crank pulley bolts free,

I thought about that and dismissed the thought because the car doesn't belong to me.

I feared that procedure might cause some other grief.

I KNOW we can jump over lots of cars while riding a motorcycle, but I've never done that.

This starter motor strategy feels too much like those leaps.

It's a very appealing idea but I won't be one of the first 10 people trying it.

If it becomes a proven technique, I'll add it to my arsenal of tricks.

I rarely think of myself as being conservative, but in this case apparently I am.

John

[Loyal_Lexinator]

I did the timing belt change on my 92 at about 206K miles... it finally gave out after letting the car sit for almost a year. I think what actually killed it was the waterpump seal dried up, started leaking, and leaked onto the tensioner, which in turn locked up the bearing, causing the belt failure.. but thats another story. It really wasn't as big of a job as I thought it would be until I got to the crank pulley bolt...

After trying many options, and trying to find a 3/4 impact wrench on a sunday, I gave up and purchased one of the "Earthquake" 1/2 impact wrenches from Harbor Freight. It actually had more torque than the 3/4 drives, unless you go with the most expensive one. I didn't have any 3/4 impact sockets, so i opted to try the 1/2... at 120psi, it broke it loose with no trouble whatsoever.. I didn't have to hold the pulley or flywheel either.. Note that my Ingersoll Rand impact wouldn't budge it, but the "Earthquake" having double motor's, probably didn't hammer more than 5-10 times before spinning it right out!

Just my personal experience, and i hope it can help someone..

Good luck all

Ron

[macamm0]

i am in the process of changing out the oil seal, off my wifes 96 es300. Since i don't have a sst tool for it

have any of you guys taken off any certain way? also is the bolt counterclockwise threaded or standard? thanks

in advance for any ideas..

The bolt is a standard right hand thread. I just finished doing a timing belt and water pump change and removed the bolt by securing my 3/4" drive ratchet against the floor and bumping the starter. It came loose as easy as can be. Just be sure to remove the ECU fuse so that the engine doesn't start! I know this does not sound like a good idea, but when done with care does not create any problems. I have also read questions in other areas about whether or not it is necessary to remove the cam pulleys to remove the water pump. It is not. The trick is to loosen the bolts in the engine side cover and to also remove the right hand engine mount studs (I did this by double nutting them) so you can drop the pump down and out.

96 Lexus ES300

97,000 miles

[macamm0]

Can anyone else chime in and verify this, is the crank bolt standard tighten right and loosen left/counterclockwise?

Hi "salty",

I recently replaced the timing belt and idler pulleys on my 99 ES300. The pulley bolt is standard, meaning that you would rotate it counter-clockwise to loosen. Fortunately or unfortunately, Lexus uses thread-lock and therefore a great amount of torque is needed to break it free. I'd say somewhere around the 250 lb-ft (spec for this bolt is 159 lb-ft).

To hold the pulley/damper in place, I purchased the following tool from Sjdiscounttools (http://www.SJDiscountTools.com )

Schley Products 64300 SCH64300 1 $61.30

Harmonic Damper Pulley Holding Tool

You will also need a puller to remove the pulley/damper from the crankshaft. I used the two bolts that came with the schley holding tool with a bar type puller since they fit into the threaded holds of the pulley/damper.

Hope this helps. Best of luck!

The Lexus factory service manual does not call for using locktite on this bolt. The one on my car had no evidence that it was used initially either.

[flanso]

I recently replaced the timing belt on my 2001 ES300. To remove the crankshaft pulley bolt, I put the socket on the pulley bolt in such a way that the attached 1/2" breaker bar rested up against the lower control arm and then flicked the key for a split second. It worked like a charm.

[spalkin]

Flanso's got it!

OK saltyreefguy; here's the deal. You're not going to get that bolt off. You can get a breaker bar 20' long if you want, it won't work.

The absolute easiest, best way to do it is this and you don't need anyone to help you:

1) get the right socket, preferably a six point 1/2" drive, but a twelve is fine.

2) I believe it was 6 inch extension.

3) 1/2 inch drive breaker bar, about 18 or 20 inches long.

4) get the socket on the nut fully and make it so that the breaker bar is not hanging straight down, but is swept back and it's handle area up tight against the shallow 'V' made by the lower control arm with the frame. You want that bar to be sitting up to the 'V'. an inch or so away is still OK.

5) Double check that the socket is pressed onto the bolt.

6) When you're satisfied that it's all set up, gently sit in the driver's seat, put the key in the ignition, take three long breaths, now turn the key to on position (just before start).

You're getting ready to just bump the starter.

7) You want to hit that start all the way and then come right back. Don't be a wuss. Turn that key all the way and then shut it off. Bam Bam just like that.

The first time I did mine, I thought, "Did anything happen?". I walked around the car and looked down to see the breaker bar hanging straight down. I grabbed the breaker bar and found that the bolt was perfectly loosened, and it was all free and perfect, ready to continue working.

That's how you do it. An air wrench won't work. A breaker bar won't work. And messing around trying to hold the crank is not a good idea.

There is a tool that Toyota uses to do that and it's a very simple tool, but it's a special tool so it's kind of hard to make. It has 2 pins coming out of it and it goes into the pulley and into the 2 holes in there but has a wide enough spread to allow your socket to fit between. You hold the crank still with the tool while you torque off the bolt.

The starter method is great. Once you do it you'll see. That starter simply puts a tremendous force. All you have to do is hold the bolt.

Good Luck! :D