How Do I Set The Timing?

[RLis300]

I took my car to AutoZone (Its cheap) to check out a CEL. It said I had a timing issue and to replace the camshaft sensor was probably bad. I'm a Turbo Honda Builder so this is my first Toyota..:)

Anywho...I replaced the sensor which was hell but I found out how to do it..haha. Reset the engine light and everything. Drove the car and it came back on I had it checked again and at my friends import shop in town. SAME THING AGAIN. So my thing its what's wrong? Maybe timing? If so How do I set it....like a "how to" also I heard there's a crankshaft sesnor as well. What do you think....

Smooth feel free to hand over some knowledge please. lol B)

[smooth1]

Hmm, it's hard to diagnose over the site like this. You may be stuck in the fail safe mode and your timing would be fixed at 5 degrees. Ignition timing advance for cylinder #1 should be -64 dgrees, max -63.5. Idling BTDC 6-16 degrees. A cel will come up if there is a difference of more than 5 degrees than target. Also, the Vvt system uses the oil controller valve and the Vvt system controller that all run on the same duty cycle. So you may want to look at the oil control valve as that regulates the oil pressure sent to the Vvt controller.

It would help to know what the dtc codes you were getting are specifically. Maybe have your friend at the import tuner shop do a freeze frame data read to see what's really going on.

Are you misfiring? How does the car run?

[RLis300]

Hmm, it's hard to diagnose over the site like this. You may be stuck in the fail safe mode and your timing would be fixed at 5 degrees. Ignition timing advance for cylinder #1 should be -64 dgrees, max -63.5. Idling BTDC 6-16 degrees. A cel will come up if there is a difference of more than 5 degrees than target. Also, the Vvt system uses the oil controller valve and the Vvt system controller that all run on the same duty cycle. So you may want to look at the oil control valve as that regulates the oil pressure sent to the Vvt controller.

It would help to know what the dtc codes you were getting are specifically. Maybe have your friend at the import tuner shop do a freeze frame data read to see what's really going on.

Are you misfiring? How does the car run?

I'll get the code from Autozone tonight because he is closed on weekends.

It runs ok. When I first start the car and drive...if I get on the gas it wont shift out correctly but if I do it like mid throttle or low it will. at a 30mph roll or so...if I punch it, its hesitates...

[smooth1]

So, maybe the timing is off, and the Vvt controller isn't adjusting.

[RLis300]

So, maybe the timing is off, and the Vvt controller isn't adjusting.

Ok...so next question. How do I set the timing on this car....I'm used to Honda's so this is new to me bro.

[smooth1]

Honda VTEC

The original VTEC was a big step. Back in the dark ages, you had to sacrifice low RPM torque and drivability for high RPM power. Bigger cams mean more valve lift, and more valve overlap, but automakers couldn't do this, because the car would run really rough at low RPMS, and gas mileage would be horrible.

Honda came up with the idea to add more lobes to the camshaft. The idea was to have the regular cam lobes for lower RPMS, but once you reached a certain RPM, the engine would switch to the other set of lobes on the cam, which were bigger and provided more lift, which keeps the valves open longer and open deeper into the cylinder. This allows for more air & fuel into the combustion chamber, thus making more power. Honda has 2 and even 3 stage VTEC systems. One thing to note, is that the original VTEC system, is not a variable valve timing system. It is a variable LIFT system.

SOHC vs. DOHC VTEC

SOHC VTEC = Applies the lobe changes to just the intake valves.

DOHC VTEC = Applies the lobe changes to both the intake and the exhaust valves. The S2000 is a DOHC VTEC engine. I believe it is only a 2 stage and makes an impressive 120 HP per liter. (The original S2000 had a 2.0 liter engine and still made 240HP)

i-VTEC

i-VTEC was introduced to improve on the original VTEC system. It adds variable valve timing to the VTEC system. Now Honda not only has variable lift control, but also can adjust the timing of when the valves are opened. The addition of the VVT system to i-VTEC also smoothes the transition between lobes. It is also intelligent and can change valve timing depending on load, RPM and other environmental variables.

Toyotas VVT-I system is a much simpler technology than VTEC. There is no lift control with VVT-i. All VVT-i does is change the timing on when the intake valves are opened. The "i" in VVT-i stands for "Intelligent." The system is intelligent because it varies the valves timing depending on load, engine temp, rpm, etc. By varying the valve timing, low end torque and high RPM horsepower are achieved. The intake valves are continuously variable throughout the RPM range. Meaning the VVT-i system can !Removed! or advance intake valve openings throughout the whole RPM range. Even though VVT-i doesn't have quite the same performance benefits as VTEC or i-VTEC, it is a cheaper system and has a much smoother power band than VTEC.

The lines in the cam gears go straight up, the dots you see to will be slightly off the the right (let's say 2:00 position)

The crank balancer will have 2 grooves. Mine has a yellow line painted in the 1st groove and white paint in the 2nd.

The 2nd groove on the crank(white paint) will be TDC

You can confirm this for yourself by taking out the #1 spark plug and checking with a clean poker of some kind that the piston is at the top of its travel. So long as your close, the Vvt will pull it in a adjust accordingly. I actually think you have another issue that is effecting the Vvti's ability to adjust.

As for ignition timing, I have a base map I can show you, but your on the stock ECU, which OEM timing maps are based on IAT, coolant temp, knock, ect. The car has variuos timing curves that control ignition timing from the base timing curve.

[Randy&Bonnie]

..

[smooth1]

Yeah, those were the days.

We finished restoring a 1968 Shelby GT 500 KR. a couple years back. (That's my dad's pride and joy. His life was complete when we finished. LOL!!)

We did a full body off restoration. When we pulled the motor, not a single bolt was left holding something together. All new internals, valves, blue printed and balanced, top to bottom. I put the motor on the bench when I was done and we moved on to body and interior. Whne the car was finally ready for the motor, we locked it down and test started it first. I pretty much eyed the initial timing to just get it started, and that thing fired right up. We never had to open the motor again, and dropped it right in, wired it up and it's ran perfectly ever since. He pulled a 12.85 in the 1/4 with it 6 months later.

Heres some pics of my very first car when I was 16. My parents really loved me! ;)

And then later I found this 72 Cuda for $2,200.00 off a friend.

Before:

After:

Those were the good old days!!

[RLis300]

Honda VTEC

The original VTEC was a big step. Back in the dark ages, you had to sacrifice low RPM torque and drivability for high RPM power. Bigger cams mean more valve lift, and more valve overlap, but automakers couldn't do this, because the car would run really rough at low RPMS, and gas mileage would be horrible.

Honda came up with the idea to add more lobes to the camshaft. The idea was to have the regular cam lobes for lower RPMS, but once you reached a certain RPM, the engine would switch to the other set of lobes on the cam, which were bigger and provided more lift, which keeps the valves open longer and open deeper into the cylinder. This allows for more air & fuel into the combustion chamber, thus making more power. Honda has 2 and even 3 stage VTEC systems. One thing to note, is that the original VTEC system, is not a variable valve timing system. It is a variable LIFT system.

SOHC vs. DOHC VTEC

SOHC VTEC = Applies the lobe changes to just the intake valves.

DOHC VTEC = Applies the lobe changes to both the intake and the exhaust valves. The S2000 is a DOHC VTEC engine. I believe it is only a 2 stage and makes an impressive 120 HP per liter. (The original S2000 had a 2.0 liter engine and still made 240HP)

i-VTEC

i-VTEC was introduced to improve on the original VTEC system. It adds variable valve timing to the VTEC system. Now Honda not only has variable lift control, but also can adjust the timing of when the valves are opened. The addition of the VVT system to i-VTEC also smoothes the transition between lobes. It is also intelligent and can change valve timing depending on load, RPM and other environmental variables.

Toyotas VVT-I system is a much simpler technology than VTEC. There is no lift control with VVT-i. All VVT-i does is change the timing on when the intake valves are opened. The "i" in VVT-i stands for "Intelligent." The system is intelligent because it varies the valves timing depending on load, engine temp, rpm, etc. By varying the valve timing, low end torque and high RPM horsepower are achieved. The intake valves are continuously variable throughout the RPM range. Meaning the VVT-i system can !Removed! or advance intake valve openings throughout the whole RPM range. Even though VVT-i doesn't have quite the same performance benefits as VTEC or i-VTEC, it is a cheaper system and has a much smoother power band than VTEC.

The lines in the cam gears go straight up, the dots you see to will be slightly off the the right (let's say 2:00 position)

The crank balancer will have 2 grooves. Mine has a yellow line painted in the 1st groove and white paint in the 2nd.

The 2nd groove on the crank(white paint) will be TDC

You can confirm this for yourself by taking out the #1 spark plug and checking with a clean poker of some kind that the piston is at the top of its travel. So long as your close, the Vvt will pull it in a adjust accordingly. I actually think you have another issue that is effecting the Vvti's ability to adjust.

As for ignition timing, I have a base map I can show you, but your on the stock ECU, which OEM timing maps are based on IAT, coolant temp, knock, ect. The car has variuos timing curves that control ignition timing from the base timing curve.

Well when I get some extra time I will get a new timing belt and reset the timing. I want to get a HKS timing belt but I'll just get one from Toyota.

[smooth1]

actually the Toyota belt is better.

[RLis300]

actually the Toyota belt is better.

ok. The HKS and Greddy belts are high!

So I'll just set the timing on a day off and go from there.

[smooth1]

Even on some motors we have worked on that raised the rpm's to 7500-8000 we stayed witht he Toyota belt. It held up fine.

[RLis300]

well here's the update. I dont have pics but you wouldnt want to see the BS I went thru!

Lets see.....I had to get a chain wrench, a balancer pulley and a big breaker bar to get to my timing belt.

Turns out my timing was off by 15 degrees!!!

Whoever had the car before me had a new timing belt and water pump put on, which is good for me but they could have set the timing right.

I fixed all that and now no CEL and I really feel the power like I'm suppose to...YESSSS

Oh yea...The antifreeze was a dingy greenish/brown Reminded me of some puke....

I'm going to change over all my fluids to Royal Purple.....I do this in all my car and you would be surprised at how your car responds...

Until then.....

[smooth1]

15 degrees? Damn! Yeah, that's just enouph for the car to start and run, but far enouph off to be crappy everything! And you should know nothing is easy with these cars.

Must be like driving a whole new car now! Glad you solved your issue.

Although, judging from your signature, I see we will be talking turbos and whatnot as time goes by. LOL!! Hhmm, a Honda guy just bought a Toyota, Ahhem, Lexus...sorry. HHmm, I wonder if there is any meaning behind that? LOL!!!! B)

Got any pics to post? I'd like to see your Honda set ups if you don't mind. I allways like seeing what people do with thier set up. Did you build the motors yourself? What components did you use and like?

Royal Purple makes good stuff. I use Amsoil, but not because I think it's better, I have just used it for a ton of years, so I stay with what I know.

[RLis300]

15 degrees? Damn! Yeah, that's just enouph for the car to start and run, but far enouph off to be crappy everything! And you should know nothing is easy with these cars.

Must be like driving a whole new car now! Glad you solved your issue.

Although, judging from your signature, I see we will be talking turbos and whatnot as time goes by. LOL!! Hhmm, a Honda guy just bought a Toyota, Ahhem, Lexus...sorry. HHmm, I wonder if there is any meaning behind that? LOL!!!! B)

Got any pics to post? I'd like to see your Honda set ups if you don't mind. I allways like seeing what people do with thier set up. Did you build the motors yourself? What components did you use and like?

Royal Purple makes good stuff. I use Amsoil, but not because I think it's better, I have just used it for a ton of years, so I stay with what I know.

Yes I have pics but I was kinda iffy about posting them on a Lexus/Toyota site. :)

I built the motors myself and tuned them myself as well.

I would like to put a T60 or T70 on the IS300 but I'm just doing research right now.

I'm trying to remain stock as far as the engine goes...Sleeper Style too.

I just did a post on 19's too because I wanna go wit some black wheels, so it'll be black on black on black on black...lol

TINTING IT ALL......

I'll have to post pics later because they are on my portable HD at home.

[RLis300]

Also the meaning behind me going from Honda to Lexus......WELL...When I got my 328I I intended on putting a turbo on it but I totaled it....plus it would have been expensive and the only good thing was the handling...I fould out that I could make a lot more power with the IS300. :):):) Less boost...more power...less work....Seemed like the right way to go.