400h Won't Run

[nick49]

Hello all, I've been a lurker here and actually registered Feb of last year but this is my first post. I couldn't log in so I reregistered today. My wife has an '06 400h that we bought new and it now has 11k miles on it. It has had an interesting life in only a year and a half. We bought it in Houston and drove it half way across the country as our local dealer had a waiting list and was padding the prices. After having the car only a few months, it was stolen out of our locked garage, while we we home and recovered two weeks later, a little dirty but unharmed.

Anyway yesterday my wife was leaving the grocery store and just as she started off there was a loud high pitched whistle alarm coming from the car, and the P/S, Brake, ABS, warning lights were on along with the "!" light and alternating "Check AWD System" and "Check Hybrid System" lights. She said the steering was real sluggish and the brakes hardly worked. She drove the 4.5 miles to get home and parked the car in the garage. She said it had a strange smell of something that had burned. I called the Lexus dealer and talked to a service Rep and heard exactly what I expected to hear. They knew absoltely nothing about anything that I was talking about and said it was a first as far as he was concerned. We will have the car flatbedded to the dealer on Monday.

Funny thing, my wife also has a Porsche Boxster and always compares it to the Lexus. The Lexus is quieter, the Lexus is smoother, the Lexus has a better sound system, the Lexus won't break down like German cars do.... so she took her Boxster out of town yesterday for an overnight trip to meet our daughter and she just might have gained some confidence in it. She has had it nearly 5 years and outer than needing a jump once due to a low battery it's been trouble free.

I'll reply when I find out what broke on the Lexus.

[RX400h]

I have a strong suspicion that the problems you are having has something to do with the theft. I have been reading posts in this Forum since before the RX400h was released and I have never heard of such an issue. Please tell your wife that it is very rare that a Porsche is more reliable than a Lexus. The 911s are particularly trouble-prone, according to Consumer Reports.

[rbh1515]

Doubt it has anything to do with the theft.

We bought our 2006 400h last Nov. Everything was fine for the first month or so. Then the mileage started dropping into the low to mid teens! And about a month later we got 2 messages like you--one was check hybrid system. We called the dealer and they said to drive it in. They had no idea what it ment. They had it for a week--they had to replace the hybrid battery system. After getting it back our mileage still stank--mid teens. They did some work on it twice--I think they finally re-initialized the system or something like that. Of course they never reset the power windows or moon roof which we had to take care of later, but the mileage now is about 21-22mpg. Still not very good but better than mid teens. I need them to look at the system again--one of my friends at work has a 2005 and he gets 25-28 mpg. Thats what I would like to be getting. We'll see. I'm a bit nervous with this car. Are we going to have more problems? My other consideration was the diesel Mercedes SUV which would probably gotten better mileage. At the time I was worried about the reliability of German engineering. Oh well. If I could do it again I would have gone with the Mercedes. Rob

[Rx330driver]

rob, let me address you first. you say that you probably would have gone with ther Merc, but there is no way of knowing what kinda problems you would be having today if you got it. Sure, consumer reports, and JD Powers judges everything by the average Lexus car, and lexus always comes up first. The thing is, you might have gotten a lemon and thats just bad luck. The germans are still way behind in reliability. Also when you bought the car, the bluetec diesels werent out yet, which mean that you probably would be getting good gas mileage, but you would be putting out emissions that are far worse than the average car. At least you have an SULEV vehicle. We dont even get diesels in California because they are so toxic.

now to Nick. THe computer would probably document this problem. WHen they bring it in, have them read the error messages from the ECM or something. Your wife probably should not have drove it back home, but i guess it would have been better than being stuck there. Have you started the car again recently? try it and see if you get the error messages.

on a side note, i dont know if i would want my my car back after it was stolen. God knows what they did in that car...

[Gryphon]

I've owned a number of Porsches--lovely fun cars but definitely neither reliable nor cheap to repair.

Tom

[nick49]

Out of curosity, I started the Lexus and drove it around my hilly neighborhood about a mile and a half. The brakes and steering feel heavy and unassisted, it feels like the gasoline engine is not assisting in power but it is running and doesn't respond at all when stopped and in neutral. The warning lights are still on but no CEL. There is a noise like a breaker or relay cycling coming from the rear of the car. I would be afraid to drive it in traffic as it takes about 150 feet to stop at 35 mph. Battery is about 30% charged, and show it charges while coasting and braking. I didn't check it out further.

Re theft: On a stormy, very windy and rainy night I got home after driving the Lexus to the store. Pulled in the garage and locked the door with the remote and entered the house. Next morning went into the garage and noticed both doors wide open and Lexus is gone, I couldn't believe it. Next I looked on the key holder in the kitchen and it was gone too. The theif had entered our home and stole the key and my wifes car while we were home. Some tools were stolen out of our garage and the contents emptied out of the console of my wifes Boxster, and her cell phone charger was taken.

The car was recovered in a tavern parking lot a few miles from home and had been there for about 2 weeks. The car was quite dirty and had mud on the carpets and the drivers seat was way forward and the back significantly reclined. All her CDs were untouched but the owners manuals were gone along with the first aid kit, tool kit, lug lock socket. They kept the remote key but detached the Lexus key ring and left it on the floor. The car had been driven less than a hundred miles. The car is Lojack equipped which is an anti theft device that has a transmitter placed on the car that can be tracked anywhere in the world within minutes to locate it. Problem is the local Sheriff and Police do not subscribe to this service so it didn't help.

Everyone that has heard this bizarre tale keeps thinking that it is an inside job or was done by family or friend. I can't say that I blame them, but when the details become known it's apparent that it's not the case. I'm unsure what they did in the car but the battery cover under the hood was loosened and askew, the rear hatch had been opened and the storage tray removed and the general area disturbed like they were searching for contraband. Thankfully the car was not vandalized.

[Rx330driver]

sorry to hear about that. It is always a shame. You gotta get an alarm system for your house. Anyways, have it checked out my lexus. I assume its still under warranty. If they cant fix it, the last possible decision for them is to get you a new car. Dont worry, i dont think you will need to pay for anything. You did nothing wrong. Seems like it will be fixed.

[SOMEONE ELSE'S GOT MY NAME]

Doubt it has anything to do with the theft.

We bought our 2006 400h last Nov. Everything was fine for the first month or so. Then the mileage started dropping into the low to mid teens! And about a month later we got 2 messages like you--one was check hybrid system. We called the dealer and they said to drive it in. They had no idea what it ment. They had it for a week--they had to replace the hybrid battery system. After getting it back our mileage still stank--mid teens. They did some work on it twice--I think they finally re-initialized the system or something like that. Of course they never reset the power windows or moon roof which we had to take care of later, but the mileage now is about 21-22mpg. Still not very good but better than mid teens. I need them to look at the system again--one of my friends at work has a 2005 and he gets 25-28 mpg. Thats what I would like to be getting. We'll see. I'm a bit nervous with this car. Are we going to have more problems? My other consideration was the diesel Mercedes SUV which would probably gotten better mileage. At the time I was worried about the reliability of German engineering. Oh well. If I could do it again I would have gone with the Mercedes. Rob

First: Mercedes, as of the past 2-3 years has received horrible reviews in consumer reports, regularly getting thumbs down for reliability. So I don't know why anyone would consider going from one of the top rated autos of reliability to one of the least.

Second: After changing out your batteries, "they did some work on it twice" ? ? ? It would be important to find out what "some kind of work" is. After all . . . any manufacturere can build a lemon (some it may be one out of a 100,000 while others it may be one out of 4,000). If major repairs continue to plague folks, most states have lemon laws that allow you to get a complete replacement . . . and not just keep getting "some kind of work" done, that doesn't really remedy a problem.

Lastly, try taking your vehicle to a large Toyota dealer. Often, their tech's have more experience w/ the hybrid system as there are a ton more of them on the road than the lexus. YES, you clearly ought to be able to obtain at least 24mpg from the 400h. My spouse's lead foot gets even that much. Sorry to hear about all your grief, from a manufacturer that prides itself in being tops.

[silvercorvette]

I did have something weird happen to me twice when I first got the car. It probably had about 200 miles on it and it was parked in my garage the both times it happened. I turned the key, all the lights on the dash lit up like they normally do but the car was dead, nothing worked. I called Lexus roadside but the guy they sent was from a local gas station and he was clueless when it came to hybrids. Fortunately for me the car fixed itself in the time it took him to get to my house, the car computer must have rebooted itself. It happened one more time just before I was getting ready to hop in the car and drive it from NY to TX. The car has been fine and there were no problems on my trip to TX or my trip back. The car has been trouble free since last Oct, no surge, rattles or other problems. I still have two complaints with Lexus. I hate the day time running lights, but I was able to disconnect them a few hours ago. The other thing I hate is you can’t use all the functions of the NAV with the car moving. If I get this fixed the car will be perfect.

[SOMEONE ELSE'S GOT MY NAME]

I did have something weird happen to me twice when I first got the car. It probably had about 200 miles on it and it was parked in my garage the both times it happened. I turned the key, all the lights on the dash lit up like they normally do but the car was dead, nothing worked. I called Lexus roadside but the guy they sent was from a local gas station and he was clueless when it came to hybrids. Fortunately for me the car fixed itself in the time it took him to get to my house, the car computer must have rebooted itself. It happened one more time just before I was getting ready to hop in the car and drive it from NY to TX. The car has been fine and there were no problems on my trip to TX or my trip back. The car has been trouble free since last Oct, no surge, rattles or other problems. I still have two complaints with Lexus. I hate the day time running lights, but I was able to disconnect them a few hours ago. The other thing I hate is you can’t use all the functions of the NAV with the car moving. If I get this fixed the car will be perfect.

That symptom can happen simply by not having your foot on the brake, when you turn the primitave key ignition switch 'on' . . . or by not having your foot on the brake far enough so the system will recognize that the brake is being depressed.

Hopefully the rx-400h will get away from the "key" (50 year old technology from a car manufacturer that prides itself on being on the cutting edg? shaking head) ignition ... and will incorporate the smart ignition system soon. You can't help but know your ignition is "ON" when you hear that distinctive electronic whine (presuming your radio aint blasting).

[silvercorvette]

I did have something weird happen to me twice when I first got the car. It probably had about 200 miles on it and it was parked in my garage the both times it happened. I turned the key, all the lights on the dash lit up like they normally do but the car was dead, nothing worked. I called Lexus roadside but the guy they sent was from a local gas station and he was clueless when it came to hybrids. Fortunately for me the car fixed itself in the time it took him to get to my house, the car computer must have rebooted itself. It happened one more time just before I was getting ready to hop in the car and drive it from NY to TX. The car has been fine and there were no problems on my trip to TX or my trip back. The car has been trouble free since last Oct, no surge, rattles or other problems. I still have two complaints with Lexus. I hate the day time running lights, but I was able to disconnect them a few hours ago. The other thing I hate is you can’t use all the functions of the NAV with the car moving. If I get this fixed the car will be perfect.

That symptom can happen simply by not having your foot on the brake, when you turn the primitave key ignition switch 'on' . . . or by not having your foot on the brake far enough so the system will recognize that the brake is being depressed.

Hopefully the rx-400h will get away from the "key" (50 year old technology from a car manufacturer that prides itself on being on the cutting edg? shaking head) ignition ... and will incorporate the smart ignition system soon. You can't help but know your ignition is "ON" when you hear that distinctive electronic whine (presuming your radio aint blasting).

Thanks I'll see if i can reproduce the problem by taking my foot off the brake. The GS450H has the smart access so it is just a matter of time for the 400 to get it, but I would rather have a NAV system that works when the car is moving then the smart key. I expect to see a lot of changes by Oct of 09 when my lease ends. If Lexus does not give me a NAV that works I am sure there will be other companies that have hybrids as good as or better than Lexus.

[RX400h]

Actually, I'm amazed at just how far behind all the other manufacturers are. I believe MB and BMW will come out with diesels, but their stubborness regarding hybrids is really hurting them, especially with gas prices approaching $4.00 a gallon. I used to see quite a few new MB and BMW SUVs; now I see very few.

[silvercorvette]

Actually, I'm amazed at just how far behind all the other manufacturers are. I believe MB and BMW will come out with diesels, but their stubborness regarding hybrids is really hurting them, especially with gas prices approaching $4.00 a gallon. I used to see quite a few new MB and BMW SUVs; now I see very few.

You are correct, GM is promising the VOLT but the way GM has followed through on it's promises in the past makes me very skeptical that the VOLT will be out by Oct of 09. If Lexus still has the best hybrid vehicle 2 1/2 years from now I will be forced into another Lexus but this time I will get one without a NAV and add an aftermarket NAV that works when the car is moving.

PS I just drove my car to the post office, I tried starting the car with my foot off the brake and I wasn't able to duplicate the problem I had last Oct. The ready light came on with my foot off the brake then I had to press the brake to get it out of "P". When I moved it into "R" it worked fine.

[Gryphon]

My 400h starts without any contact with the brake pedal. If it's broken I have not intention of "fixing" it. I like it fine the way it is.

Tom

[larrytrk]

Hello all, I've been a lurker here and actually registered Feb of last year but this is my first post. I couldn't log in so I reregistered today. My wife has an '06 400h that we bought new and it now has 11k miles on it. It has had an interesting life in only a year and a half. We bought it in Houston and drove it half way across the country as our local dealer had a waiting list and was padding the prices. After having the car only a few months, it was stolen out of our locked garage, while we we home and recovered two weeks later, a little dirty but unharmed.

Anyway yesterday my wife was leaving the grocery store and just as she started off there was a loud high pitched whistle alarm coming from the car, and the P/S, Brake, ABS, warning lights were on along with the "!" light and alternating "Check AWD System" and "Check Hybrid System" lights. She said the steering was real sluggish and the brakes hardly worked. She drove the 4.5 miles to get home and parked the car in the garage. She said it had a strange smell of something that had burned. I called the Lexus dealer and talked to a service Rep and heard exactly what I expected to hear. They knew absoltely nothing about anything that I was talking about and said it was a first as far as he was concerned. We will have the car flatbedded to the dealer on Monday.

Funny thing, my wife also has a Porsche Boxster and always compares it to the Lexus. The Lexus is quieter, the Lexus is smoother, the Lexus has a better sound system, the Lexus won't break down like German cars do.... so she took her Boxster out of town yesterday for an overnight trip to meet our daughter and she just might have gained some confidence in it. She has had it nearly 5 years and outer than needing a jump once due to a low battery it's been trouble free.

I'll reply when I find out what broke on the Lexus.

I'll bet it was the inverter harness shorting out. Happened twice with me until they finally found the short in the harness and replaced it!!!!!

[rbh1515]

The main point to my reply is that similar problems do occur with these hybrids--it happened to me within a month of owning my car. A problem similar to the poster of this topic. My dealer is a big Lexus dealer in the area, but has been very subpar. When I was shopping for an SUV for my wife, I was looking for something that would be reliable and get great mileage (for an SUV). The Mercedes was my other choice, and in fact there was an article on the internet comparing the mileage of the two, and the Mercedes diesel won out on a cross county trip. Mercedes' diesel engines are extremely reliable--I have owned them in the past and put on well over a 100k miles with no problems. I thought I would be getting an even more reliable car with the added benefit of environmental friendliness. So far I am not impressed. Maybe its just my car, but after being on the web and going on forums, I'm hearing of more and more problems with these hybrids. After replacing the batteries on my car, the dealer had to "re-initialize" the system--I believe thats the term they used. The paperwork is very vague, and the second time they didn't even give my any paperwork. I'm sure they are worried about the Lemon Law. My wife's mileage is 21-22mpg (as measured at the pump--the computer overestamates by about 1.5mpg). She drives predominantly in the city--not highway. This is where the hybrid should shine. If I were to do it over, I would have bought the Mercedes. Rob

[retired00]

My 400h starts without any contact with the brake pedal. If it's broken I have not intention of "fixing" it. I like it fine the way it is.

Tom

Correct, brake application is not needed on 400h key ignitions. Push button start on other Toyota/Lexus cars does require it.

[SOMEONE ELSE'S GOT MY NAME]

Thanks I'll see if i can reproduce the problem by taking my foot off the brake. The GS450H has the smart access so it is just a matter of time for the 400 to get it, but I would rather have a NAV system that works when the car is moving then the smart key. I expect to see a lot of changes by Oct of 09 when my lease ends. If Lexus does not give me a NAV that works I am sure there will be other companies that have hybrids as good as or better than Lexus.

If you disconect the speed sensor, the NAV WILL work (presuming your peeved about not being able to input 'on the fly'?) even when the car is running . . . but I didn't tell you that B)

[silvercorvette]

Thanks I'll see if i can reproduce the problem by taking my foot off the brake. The GS450H has the smart access so it is just a matter of time for the 400 to get it, but I would rather have a NAV system that works when the car is moving then the smart key. I expect to see a lot of changes by Oct of 09 when my lease ends. If Lexus does not give me a NAV that works I am sure there will be other companies that have hybrids as good as or better than Lexus.

If you disconect the speed sensor, the NAV WILL work (presuming your peeved about not being able to input 'on the fly'?) even when the car is running . . . but I didn't tell you that B)

Thanks I was aware something could be done with the speed sensor but I wasn't sure how to do it. The reason I haven't tried was I thought it would mess some stuff up. I know it will mess up the dead reckoning on the NAV but I can live with that, I am just worried it will mess some other stuff up. I guess I'll do a search for speed sensor disconnect and see what comes up. If I am not happy or I discover it doesn't work I can always reconnect it.

I am a bit perturbed that we as owners have to do all this stuff to turn off the DRL disconnecting sensors get our cars to work the way we want them to but if I fix this I will consider my car to be perfect.

[silvercorvette]

I did a search and found this thread

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread...ht=speed+sensor

It looks like I am stuck because I have an 07 400, The wire cut and fix does work on the 06 but not the 07. Someone mentioned that maybe someone at the Lexus factory may have read the Internet threads and changed the set up in the 07s in order to stop us for getting the NAV lock out disabled

[nick49]

Got the car back late this afternoon, spent the better part of three days in the shop. The first problem was an open circuit in the skid control ECU. The skid control computer was replaced and codes cleared. The second problem was an open circuit in the ABS Brake Actuator Assebmly which was also replaced.

Seems odd to me that both of these units would fail at the same time. Will keep an eye on things and see if any other problems arise. I will be doing an oil and filter change and rotation of the tires this weekend. I'm probably the only one that changes their own oil here.

[Rx330driver]

I'm probably the only one that changes their own oil here.

you are one of many. A lot of people dont want to give Lexus 100+ dollars to do something so simple. I still go there cause i dont know how...lol...and dont care to learn any time soon. seems so icky. :P

[silvercorvette]

I'm probably the only one that changes their own oil here.

you are one of many. A lot of people dont want to give Lexus 100+ dollars to do something so simple. I still go there cause i dont know how...lol...and dont care to learn any time soon. seems so icky. :P

I have a lift mainly to increase storage space in my garage but a side benefit is being able to do my own oil changes. I am going to be moving soon and it doesn't pay to bring the lift with me but if anyone wants a free lift and you live near exit 58 on long island you can have it for free if you can get it out

[SOMEONE ELSE'S GOT MY NAME]

I'm probably the only one that changes their own oil here.

you are one of many. A lot of people dont want to give Lexus 100+ dollars to do something so simple. I still go there cause i dont know how...lol...and dont care to learn any time soon. seems so icky. :P

Good Year sends out coupons a few time a year for $12 oil changes. With a price like that ... hassle of dumping, etc ... you'd be nuts to do it your self. Let the dealer do it? Yea, that's nuts on TOP of nuts :P

oh! So the speed sensosr disconect is different for the '07? Never heard that . . . but to answer your question about whether it has any other effect, yes.

Many consider it a positive effect. Namely, if you're on ice, starting to get wheel spin, the traction control will do a disconect, and many here have bitched bitterly (rather than simply get killer snow tires or studs, if legal ... but that's another topic) about that issue. With the module disconected, you can "spin 'em" 'till you blow the high voltage system, and void your warranty. Now THAT's a down side.

[riwyle]

Got the car back late this afternoon, spent the better part of three days in the shop. The first problem was an open circuit in the skid control ECU. The skid control computer was replaced and codes cleared. The second problem was an open circuit in the ABS Brake Actuator Assebmly which was also replaced.

Seems odd to me that both of these units would fail at the same time. Will keep an eye on things and see if any other problems arise. I will be doing an oil and filter change and rotation of the tires this weekend. I'm probably the only one that changes their own oil here.

Very odd. Could well have been a misdiagnoses of one part or the other. Sometimes they find part replacement easier than thorough diagnosis. Just be very thankful you are not footing the bill!