After 5 Months - My Es350 Is Going Back!

[AZ08LexusES]

Last Friday I needed to buy a part for my Navigator. So I went to the Lexus dealer, dropped my car off (they do a complimentary hand wash, I don't know if they do this at other ones) and walked across the street to the Ford, Lincoln, Mercury Dealership. OMG!!! They were under construction and the people were very nice, but I felt like I left the Apple Computer store and walked into a Walmart the day before Christmas. Just seems overcrowded and they must have over 50 mechanics and technicians working there. They seemed BUSY!!! I went back across the street to get my car, which was ready btw, and that calmness was so nice.

Now, I hear about complaints about the Lexus service at the dealerships, but have you been to the other ones? What about your dealership, do you mind going there?

[SW03ES]

I love my dealership...

[carma350]

Whoa, Carma, I hope you didn't cross off the ES because of what I said! I'll sell you my ES with 5K and take the risk myself with a new one. I know it doesn't happen on mine, and the fact that there is a TSIB on it means that there is a fix for it. And BTW, where did you see that the 08 had the same problem? Also, what I meant about CR was, that if you don't like the review, wait a couple of months, it will change...

Anyway, what are you going to get now?

AZ08, since the thread in which we were conversing was locked, I responded here.

Your comments were a positive for the 2008 ES since you don't have the flare.

I looked at car forums plus the Consumer Reports downgrade of ES / Camry V6 quality which backs up the existence of the flare (i.e., transmission slip) and other ES problems described on forums. Yes, the CR rating for the ES could change for the better in a couple of months - it could also stay the same or get even worse. Lexus / Toyota have had a history of transmission problems going back to at least 1999 with the Lexus RX300. I also think the Lexus / Toyota response to these transmission slips is, on the whole, pathetic.

I'm guessing the odds of getting a 2008 ES 350 that has: no slip (50%); minor slip which most owners wouldn't notice (49%); major slip (1% or less). I suspect any kind of slip could worsen and cause serious transmission damage - some ES owners have experienced a worsening slip. Although an owner may not notice a minor slip (200rpm), it could cause tranny damage. Some ES owners on forums are also experiencing engine hesitation and jerking /surges. That's very dangerous. Worse, Toyota refuses to recall the 6-speed transmissions - it probably won't recall the transmissions until you-know-what happens to some ES / Camry V6 / Avalon customers.

Yes, there's an ES slip TSIB but several previous TSIBs haven't fixed the slip. There's no evidence from Lexus, CR, forum ES owners, or other sources that the slip is fixed. Maybe a fix will occur tomorrow. But I'm not holding my breath. Lexus may never fix the slip. Maybe the 2012 ES 380 will have a better tranny but then again, maybe it doesn't. IMO, transmission slips, tranny damage, and engine hesitation / jerking / surges are too serious a problem to gamble on. If CR gave the ES a below-average rating for its front grille logo, I could deal with it, but not when we're talking powertrain, warranty or no. There are too many good alternatives in the marketplace that have fine powertrains. Why gamble on a Lexus?

[SW03ES]

You still have to be aware that the people who post on internet forums are not representative of the population of car owners as a whole. For instance my generation ES (and most cars built between 98-05 with a DBW throttle) has a throttle hesitation when accelerating under some load characteristics that you'd think was rampant given the forum postings, but its never bothered me and when I meet and talk with ES of my generation owners I have never met ONE who felt the throttle had any lag. Not ONE, and I know a lot of 02-06 ES owners. Its a very popular car in my industry.

As for the RX, the RX had some transaxle failures for two years, 99-00 and only on AWD RX300s. Doesn't apply to the ES even of that generation and certainly not the ES350.

As far as jerking surges, Alan here at the LOC had an 03 ES and he was one of the people who took great issue with the throttle lag on his 03 ES. He traded it on an early run 07 ES350 and has nothing but praise for the transmission. Given all the complaining he did before I have zero reason to believe he wouldn't complain if he had problems now...

Given the fact that you're this convinced of the issue you probably would never enjoy the car. However, having been privy to all of this knowledge I'd still buy an ES350 without hesitation.

[amf1932]

As far as jerking surges, Alan here at the LOC had an 03 ES and he was one of the people who took great issue with the throttle lag on his 03 ES. He traded it on an early run 07 ES350 and has nothing but praise for the transmission. Given all the complaining he did before I have zero reason to believe he wouldn't complain if he had problems now...

Ohhh.......I certainly would complain, but so far I'm very happy with the new 6 speed transmission on my ES. :)

[Ira d]

As far as jerking surges, Alan here at the LOC had an 03 ES and he was one of the people who took great issue with the throttle lag on his 03 ES. He traded it on an early run 07 ES350 and has nothing but praise for the transmission. Given all the complaining he did before I have zero reason to believe he wouldn't complain if he had problems now...

Ohhh.......I certainly would complain, but so far I'm very happy with the new 6 speed transmission on my ES. :)

Although I already posted this my trans in my car is very smooth shifting so far, I think that

sometimes the shift from 1st to 2nd is a bit to early but otherwise its ok.

[carma350]

You still have to be aware that the people who post on internet forums are not representative of the population of car owners as a whole. For instance my generation ES (and most cars built between 98-05 with a DBW throttle) has a throttle hesitation when accelerating under some load characteristics that you'd think was rampant given the forum postings, but its never bothered me and when I meet and talk with ES of my generation owners I have never met ONE who felt the throttle had any lag. Not ONE, and I know a lot of 02-06 ES owners. Its a very popular car in my industry.

As for the RX, the RX had some transaxle failures for two years, 99-00 and only on AWD RX300s. Doesn't apply to the ES even of that generation and certainly not the ES350.

As far as jerking surges, Alan here at the LOC had an 03 ES and he was one of the people who took great issue with the throttle lag on his 03 ES. He traded it on an early run 07 ES350 and has nothing but praise for the transmission. Given all the complaining he did before I have zero reason to believe he wouldn't complain if he had problems now...

Given the fact that you're this convinced of the issue you probably would never enjoy the car. However, having been privy to all of this knowledge I'd still buy an ES350 without hesitation.

I'm more comfortable buying a car from a manufacturer that doesn't have a history of transmission issues; that's why I'm going to avoid Lexus / Toyota. The Lexus / Camry V6's transmission reliability ratings from Consumer Reports are dropping, the Camry's more so. But they share the same powertrain, leading me to believe the ES's transmission reliability ratings will continue to drop, especially because there's no indication Lexus / Toyota have any handle on the transmission slip.

I wouldn't rely solely on forum complaints. The forums give anecdotal evidence but they point me to comprehensive reliability reports such as CR. The forums and CR support each other regarding the Lexus ES transmission slip. Better to pick a manufacturer which doesn't have a history of powertrain issues. That's my rationale, right or wrong.

[SW03ES]

I would hardly call one issue with one transmission on one model for two model years "a history of transmission issues". You won't find a car company anywhere that doesn't have at least one model somewhere in its history that has had some reliability foible. Lexus has one of the most stellar records for reliability in the industry, thats an undisputable fact.

What manufacturer will you choose that has never had a model with a powertrain issue?

[carma350]

I would hardly call one issue with one transmission on one model for two model years "a history of transmission issues". You won't find a car company anywhere that doesn't have at least one model somewhere in its history that has had some reliability foible. Lexus has one of the most stellar records for reliability in the industry, thats an undisputable fact.

What manufacturer will you choose that has never had a model with a powertrain issue?

It's not just "one issue with one transmission on one model" and it's not a mere "foible." I'd prefer not to list all the Toyota / Lexus models that have had transmission issues since 1999, but I can do so if you wish. Lexus has a history of transmission problems dating back to at least 1999 with the RX300. The current powertrain is not used on "one model" but three - the 2008 Avalon, Camry (V6), and Lexus ES 350, which all share the same problematic U660E 6-speed transmission that has a slip.

Lexus / Toyota does not have "one of the most stellar records" for transmission reliability since 1999. I don't know how much weight you give to transmission problems (such as slips, hesitations, surges, transmission replacements, etc.) but it's a significant issue to me, especially since those problems can lead to serious transmission damage over time and a potentially serious road danger.

The ES 350 had been my clear number one choice before I learned about its transmission slip problem and the Lexus / Toyota history of transmission problems. I'm now looking at 4-5 other makes / models. I agree with you that no manufacturer has a perfect 100% reliability record when it comes to powertrain issues. I'm just looking to buy a car from a manufacturer that doesn't have a history of transmission problems on a number of models, as does Lexus / Toyota.

[amf1932]

I'd prefer not to list all the Toyota / Lexus models that have had transmission issues since 1999, but I can do so if you wish.

I'm sure that many members would be interested in the seriousness of the transmission problems/issues that you seemed to have skirted over.

I have to agree with the statement SW03ES' made in the above post.

You won't find a car company anywhere that doesn't have at least one model somewhere in its history that has had some reliability foible.

Furthermore, this holds true for ALL auto manufacturers all over the world.

[SW03ES]

All I know is I have one of these things with 100k miles and the transmission still shifts as it has since its new. Never any shavings in the pan, no problems.

I do MAINTAIN the transmission, which not everyone does. My Dad had a 98 Ls400 with 160k, transmission shifted flawlessly. He has an 04 now with 70k or no, no transmission trouble.

I know MANY MANY people with the Lexus ES series, and Realtors with TONS of miles (its an extremely popular car in my business, as is the Avalon). I drive 22k a year but many people in my industry drive 50k miles plus a year and I know of no one who has ever had a transmission problem...EVER.

So yes please, list these cars with all these problems...

[JGTNewLexusOwner]

Rocketmatt, sorry to hear of your issues. I just bought my 2008 ES350 and I hope I don't experience what you have. I did read an article/interview with the CEO of Toyota and one of the biggest issues is that with their growth has come problems with quality/reliability. Also, believe it or not (and I am not sure I believe it), that Buick passed Lexus in quality! Argh!!! Anyway, I sure would hope that your dealer would help you. Haven't you got any support from them? Also, alot of states (like mine in PA) have lemon laws, doesn't that qualify for yours? Anyway, good luck!