Nav Override

[SW03ES]

I appreciate that.

I understand your frustration. You spent a lot of money on the car, if you learn to adapt to the limitations of these driver lockouts however (which as I said all but one manufacturer has) you will be happy with the system.

[bobstran]

This nav system is terrible. My son was going to buy a Lexus until he realized how pitiful it is. He bought the Acura instead. DO NOT BUY a Lexus with a nav system. The little $500 Garmin is a much better solution.

[SW03ES]

Again, I've had mine for 4 years, I've had the updated system in the Prius for 3, totally happy. The only plus for the Acura is that they don't lockout functions when moving, FOR NOW. When the DOT requires manufacturers to do that they"ll have to if they want to sell cars in the US. That day is coming very soon.

[amf1932]

This nav system is terrible. My son was going to buy a Lexus until he realized how pitiful it is. He bought the Acura instead. DO NOT BUY a Lexus with a nav system. The little $500 Garmin is a much better solution.

For a new member, you certainly are starting out on the wrong foot!!

For your information, and your son's, the Lexus Navigation System is considered by auto experts to be the top rated units....bar none!

Example: PC Magazine

No built-in car navigation is better than the Lexus DVD Navigation System, which covers the US and Canada.

[jaspal]

Total screen blackout while driving is a bit too much lockout. Data entry or any user interaction lockout is understandable, but screen with map and car's position, direction of motion etc., should continue to display. Quick glance on where your car is, upcoming road curve and turn direction etc., are very useful. My ES350 is non-nav, I use Garmin nuvi and glance on the map every now and then, when at stop light, etc.

[SW03ES]

Um, if the screen with map and car's position is not functioning for you, there is something wrong with your system. The map screen should always be visible unless you've set it to revert to the radio screen or something as default.

[Rx330driver]

the thing about after market navs are that....they are ugly. period.

now about the nav system. It is rated the most intuitive and best interface, just solely on the nav. I agree the lock out feature is horrible, but its nothing compared to having an ugly after market nav stick out at you.

i think what lexus should do is this. THey already have a sensor in the passenger seat for the seatbelt light. They should override the nav when there is a passenger there, and then lockout everything when there is only a driver, or people in the back. thats a good compromise.

[Rontenfour]

Hi Rx330driver --

I could not agree MORE with you. In fact I have chatted about the very SAME idea with friends. I hope the right people are listening.... Thanks........

[Rontenfour]

PS to "All" --

I have responses from two local non-Lexus dealerships which confirm that they have "Full Navigation System Function" while the car is in motion.

I have read indications here suggesting that only one other manufacturer provides "Full Function Navigation while in motion".

Does anyone have any refutations or confirmations ??

Thanks

[SW03ES]

They have full navigation function through voice commands, not through the tactile interface. You have full function through voice commands too.

[my350]

PS to "All" --

I have responses from two local non-Lexus dealerships which confirm that they have "Full Navigation System Function" while the car is in motion.

I have read indications here suggesting that only one other manufacturer provides "Full Function Navigation while in motion".

Does anyone have any refutations or confirmations ??

Thanks

Can we please kill this thread? I mean come on, you bought a car that does not have the functionality that you thought it had. So the way I see it is that you have a few options;

1. Sell your car and apply the money toward the purchase of a vehicle that does offer the functionality that you are looking for.

2. See if there is an aftermarket solution that would be acceptable to you.

3. Deal with what you have purchased.

All this discussion of pulling off to the side of the road, or entering a destination before leaving your home, or doing whatever you need to do to enter a destination into the system is getting quite old.

Bottom line is that when the car is moving you are locked out of using the tactile portions of the Nav system, let's move on now.

my350

[SW03ES]

While I agree with you, You don't have to read threads that you aren't interested in reading...

[TuneGuy]

Interesting thread. Only two people have posted that the system is fine and one of them started out by saying that the system was "beyond annoying." Every other poster says he does not like the sytem as is. Such a majority indicates that there is a problem.

Rontenfour has expressed dissatisfaction with his navigation system and the primary thrust of SW03ES is that he should adapt to the system. That has been the exact attitude of General Motors in the past and is one of the reasons I do not do business with them any more. IT IS NOT UP TO THE CUSTOMER TO ADAPT TO THE PRODUCT. IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE MANUFACTURER TO ENSURE THE PRODUCT MEETS THE NEEDS AND DESIRES OF THE CUSTOMER! The dustbin of history is replete with failed companies that thought otherwise.

Also Rontenfour's dissatisfaction is NOT incorrect and it cannot be. Indeed no one's dissatisfaction with anything can be wrong or disputed. It is entirely personal, so let it be. Rontenfour and nearly everyone else on this forum do not like the crippling of the nav system underway.

Add me to the list.

I have owned an ES350 for about two weeks and 2,200 miles now. I researched this car extensively before purchasing. I read the ENTIRE IS?50 OWNER"S AND NAVIGATION MANUALs online before buying (I did not find them for the ES350 and figured the nav system would be the same which turned out to be correct). NOT ONE WORD in the manual said anything about the system working any differently underway than at rest. My paper manuals which I have now read in their entirety are the same. If Lexus' intent is to be open and honest about this, why is this information missing? That is an important question.

Like Rontenfour, my salesman demonstrated the nav system for me... in the showroom. Our drive was to test the way the car drove and he did not offer to demonstrate the nav system further aside from letting it show us where we were. At no time whatsoever was any statement made PRIOR to purchase or in the explanation of the systems prior to drive away that the nav system would be different underway than at rest, much less that maybe 80% of its functions would unavailable. Why do you suppose he never mentioned any of this when his knowledge of everything else appeared encyclopedic? I suspect he too understood the unpopularity of Lexus' decision.

I personally was very happy with my Garmin that I moved from car to car. It asked me once if I agreed that it was dangerous to program it underway and shut the heck up and let me do what I wanted thereafter. I bought the Lexus nav system primarily because it was the only way to get the backup camera, without which I thought I eventually would back over or into something, maybe an elephant the rear of the car is so high. Had I known the navigation system would be SO seriously crippled I most definitely would not have bought it. $2,400 for a backup camera without a fully functional nav system is a bit steep considering good backup cameras are available in the aftermarket for far less. Lexus' total silence on an unpopular characteristic makes me suspicious that the omission is intentional.

Some have made reference to the availability of the voice system for changing the destination enroute. Yes, you can go to an address, but all the other eight or ten methods available when stopped are impossible. Also, I found it has not ONCE understood my pronunciation of the street name, even at rest. And according to the observations of countless people over my life, I speak unaccented English a la Walter Kronkite. And that's the way it is, April 17th, 2007.

Some of the crippling is difficult to justify. When driving down the Interstate perhaps you are willing to stay at the NEAREST hotel, but I certainly am not. I want to be able to choose the town around which to search (nicer hotels are in the bigger towns) and to see a list of the hotels there ahead of time and call them to check on availability and price. Picking from a list certainly seems safer to me than pushing icons to see the hotels one by one. Or maybe I prefer Hampton Inns and only want to see them. "Sorry, if we told you that we'd have to kill you." I also agree with Rontenfour that pulling over on the shoulder of a road is dangerous, even on an Interstate, and probably more dangerous than touching the dashboard. I remember the family of seven that was decimated not ten miles from my home a few years ago. The surviving children are now orphans. Indeed, some states appear to agree that pulling over if it is avoidable is dangerous and thus prohibiting hitchhiking.

With about 85% of the miles I've driven since purchase having been with two people in the car, I find the crippling of the nav system under all conditions underway particularly disturbing. With all the talk of the relentless pursuit of perfection, you know they considered the impact on drivers of crippling the nav system even when they had a copilot. Why then did they decide to do nothing about it, particularly when weight sensors in the passenger seat already existed? That is the real question. And other companies consider the acceptance of an on-screen agreement adequate lawsuit protection. So what the heck is up with Lexus? Not all Lexus buyers are so senile they cannot drive and touch the dashboard at the same time. I agree the nav system is crackerjack... when I'm parked.

And one more bit of support for Rontenfour; countless times I have left the house without deciding in what order I would do my errands.

Rather than just complain about all this I did something. I researched extensively on the Net and within a day of my purchase found a way to hack the DVD in the nav system to regain the override available before 6.1 (menu, volume, top left, bottom left, top left, bottom left, override, back). It works fine, but I have learned I lost some voice capability for Bluetooth [this may be incorrect as I delved deeper into the manual tonight]. I am still considering whether the gain was worth the loss. But considering the system understands me for dialing at 70 mph no better than my father without his hearing aids, it does not seem to be such a great loss.

If you want to hack yours, you'll find all the information you need at http://toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.p...3730&page=3. Start with Black88mx6's post near the bottom of the page, then read through to the end of the thread for a complete explanation for a beginner. I got a good DVD that worked on the first try. Some programmers are now working to enable full functionality enroute without substituting the old file. That would avoid losing any features. You're welcome in advance!

[GMoney749]

Before I traded in my G35, I had two Infinitis, both with Navigation, neither of which can be programmed for anything but the first 6 entries in your address book while driving. It ain't just Lexus. Is it at all possible that the guys and gals who actually build cars for a living might actually know what they're doing?

I know a lot of people who complain that they can't watch a DVD in the front while driving. I know people who type messages on their Blackberry while driving. Just because somebody WANTS to do something doesn't mean they're right, customer or not. In the couple weeks I've had this car, I've drifted onto the lane markers more than once fooling around with the touchscreen while driving, even in its "crippled" state. Somebody in the passenger seat is no guarantee the driver isn't going to be programming the system - or distracted by the passenger doing it.

Is it really that big a deal to pull over for a second and program the thing? What's it like two minutes? Sheesh. What's the freakin' rush, America?

[SW03ES]

Again, what you're reading are posts on a internet message board. People join these things when they're really happy with their product, or really dissatisfied with it. You can't take opinions of people on here as being representative of the whole population who owns the car.

The Lexus nav system is awarded top honors when systems are reviewed all the time and consistantly is awarded top honors in consumer surveys comparing systems. It is a minority of you who this really bothers.

Your choice is to continue fuming, or to simply adapt to the system as it is.

[Rx330driver]

third choice: remove the dash and cut the wires, thus voiding your warranty

[CBSSYS]

OK, I am upset enough about this to the point where I am ready to cut the wires. Which/where is the thread explaining in a 430 which wires to cut and where to get to them? What I want to do is to make the car look like it is not moving, as far as the disabling software is concerned.

[SW03ES]

If you just cut the wire the nav system will no longer function. It uses the speed sensor to extrapolate the car's position in concert with the GPS signal. What you need is a switch, or override of the speed sensor and the ability to switch it back on.

If you have an 04 430, the menu override will work.

[Doug Bates]

FYI, I have started a website dedicated to getting the navigation override restored. Please visit the site and be counted!

The site is http://www.lexusoverride.com and I would appreciate folks signing up. Your email addresses will be kept confidential and only used to update you on any changes in the Navigation system. In my mind, Lexus has misjudged their customers. This is a great way to let them know how many owners are dissatisfied with the new system.

Doug Bates

[SW03ES]

The system only had the override from 04-06, its not like its always had it.

[amf1932]

The system only had the override from 04-06, its not like its always had it.

I had the override in my '07 ES, but I had to take the car into Lexus service because the display was not showing my car in the proper position on the map. There was a TSB for this problem, so the repair was to change the DVD disc to an upgraded version. So, that took care of using the override. It doesn't work anymore. :cries:

[jeffsstuff]

Does anyone have the NEW codes for the ver. 06.1 DVD to override the nav system so that a passenger can input a destination while traveling.

The old codes (Menu, up, down, up, down) do not work with DVD ver. 06.1.

I called Lexus. I called the dealer. They stonewalled me citing safety issues.

I posted the whole mess to: www.jeffsstuff.com/blogs if you want, post your feelings. I'm going to compile them and forward them to Lexus.

There is also a site called: www.lexusisnotmymother.com or www.lexusnav.com which is doing the same thing.

Lexus customer service said that they would look into the possibility of a rebate of some sort but that under no circumstances will they enable the system when in motion.

Can anyone say "class-action". Any attorneys want to step up and weigh in on this?

We shouldn't need override codes. It should work as advertised. We bought it, we should be able to use it. Period!

[jeffsstuff]

I agree that the lockout is beyond annoying, but you can't fault anyone for protecting themselves from liability in a world as sue happy as this one...

I disagree for these reasons:

1. A passenger can use the system safely, even in motion.

2. Other car makers don't treat their customers like children.

3. My $500 Garmin Nuvi doesn't have this restriction.

4. The car doesn't stop me from driving 120mph. The speed is "electronically limited to 137mph". Well, why don't they make it 85? There isn't a road in the country where it is legal to go faster. At least that would be in compliance with a law.

5. If I did drive 100+ mph and caused an accident, would anyone consider suing the car maker? Of course not. It would be my fault.

www.jeffsstuff.com/blogs

[jeffsstuff]

Interesting thread. Only two people have posted that the system is fine and one of them started out by saying that the system was "beyond annoying." Every other poster says he does not like the sytem as is. Such a majority indicates that there is a problem.

Rontenfour has expressed dissatisfaction with his navigation system and the primary thrust of SW03ES is that he should adapt to the system. That has been the exact attitude of General Motors in the past and is one of the reasons I do not do business with them any more. IT IS NOT UP TO THE CUSTOMER TO ADAPT TO THE PRODUCT. IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE MANUFACTURER TO ENSURE THE PRODUCT MEETS THE NEEDS AND DESIRES OF THE CUSTOMER! The dustbin of history is replete with failed companies that thought otherwise.

Also Rontenfour's dissatisfaction is NOT incorrect and it cannot be. Indeed no one's dissatisfaction with anything can be wrong or disputed. It is entirely personal, so let it be. Rontenfour and nearly everyone else on this forum do not like the crippling of the nav system underway.

Add me to the list.

I have owned an ES350 for about two weeks and 2,200 miles now. I researched this car extensively before purchasing. I read the ENTIRE IS?50 OWNER"S AND NAVIGATION MANUALs online before buying (I did not find them for the ES350 and figured the nav system would be the same which turned out to be correct). NOT ONE WORD in the manual said anything about the system working any differently underway than at rest. My paper manuals which I have now read in their entirety are the same. If Lexus' intent is to be open and honest about this, why is this information missing? That is an important question.

Like Rontenfour, my salesman demonstrated the nav system for me... in the showroom. Our drive was to test the way the car drove and he did not offer to demonstrate the nav system further aside from letting it show us where we were. At no time whatsoever was any statement made PRIOR to purchase or in the explanation of the systems prior to drive away that the nav system would be different underway than at rest, much less that maybe 80% of its functions would unavailable. Why do you suppose he never mentioned any of this when his knowledge of everything else appeared encyclopedic? I suspect he too understood the unpopularity of Lexus' decision.

I personally was very happy with my Garmin that I moved from car to car. It asked me once if I agreed that it was dangerous to program it underway and shut the heck up and let me do what I wanted thereafter. I bought the Lexus nav system primarily because it was the only way to get the backup camera, without which I thought I eventually would back over or into something, maybe an elephant the rear of the car is so high. Had I known the navigation system would be SO seriously crippled I most definitely would not have bought it. $2,400 for a backup camera without a fully functional nav system is a bit steep considering good backup cameras are available in the aftermarket for far less. Lexus' total silence on an unpopular characteristic makes me suspicious that the omission is intentional.

Some have made reference to the availability of the voice system for changing the destination enroute. Yes, you can go to an address, but all the other eight or ten methods available when stopped are impossible. Also, I found it has not ONCE understood my pronunciation of the street name, even at rest. And according to the observations of countless people over my life, I speak unaccented English a la Walter Kronkite. And that's the way it is, April 17th, 2007.

Some of the crippling is difficult to justify. When driving down the Interstate perhaps you are willing to stay at the NEAREST hotel, but I certainly am not. I want to be able to choose the town around which to search (nicer hotels are in the bigger towns) and to see a list of the hotels there ahead of time and call them to check on availability and price. Picking from a list certainly seems safer to me than pushing icons to see the hotels one by one. Or maybe I prefer Hampton Inns and only want to see them. "Sorry, if we told you that we'd have to kill you." I also agree with Rontenfour that pulling over on the shoulder of a road is dangerous, even on an Interstate, and probably more dangerous than touching the dashboard. I remember the family of seven that was decimated not ten miles from my home a few years ago. The surviving children are now orphans. Indeed, some states appear to agree that pulling over if it is avoidable is dangerous and thus prohibiting hitchhiking.

With about 85% of the miles I've driven since purchase having been with two people in the car, I find the crippling of the nav system under all conditions underway particularly disturbing. With all the talk of the relentless pursuit of perfection, you know they considered the impact on drivers of crippling the nav system even when they had a copilot. Why then did they decide to do nothing about it, particularly when weight sensors in the passenger seat already existed? That is the real question. And other companies consider the acceptance of an on-screen agreement adequate lawsuit protection. So what the heck is up with Lexus? Not all Lexus buyers are so senile they cannot drive and touch the dashboard at the same time. I agree the nav system is crackerjack... when I'm parked.

And one more bit of support for Rontenfour; countless times I have left the house without deciding in what order I would do my errands.

Rather than just complain about all this I did something. I researched extensively on the Net and within a day of my purchase found a way to hack the DVD in the nav system to regain the override available before 6.1 (menu, volume, top left, bottom left, top left, bottom left, override, back). It works fine, but I have learned I lost some voice capability for Bluetooth [this may be incorrect as I delved deeper into the manual tonight]. I am still considering whether the gain was worth the loss. But considering the system understands me for dialing at 70 mph no better than my father without his hearing aids, it does not seem to be such a great loss.

If you want to hack yours, you'll find all the information you need at http://toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.p...3730&page=3. Start with Black88mx6's post near the bottom of the page, then read through to the end of the thread for a complete explanation for a beginner. I got a good DVD that worked on the first try. Some programmers are now working to enable full functionality enroute without substituting the old file. That would avoid losing any features. You're welcome in advance!

Add to your list the fact that a passenger would be able to input anything safely while the car is in motion. Well, they can't because of this silly limitation.

Please, if the programmers succeed, please let us all know. Also, please, if you would, post your comments to my site at www.jeffsstuff.com/blogs as I am putting together a list to forward to Lexus showing them the extent of the dissatisfaction.

[jeffsstuff]

Again, what you're reading are posts on a internet message board. People join these things when they're really happy with their product, or really dissatisfied with it. You can't take opinions of people on here as being representative of the whole population who owns the car.

The Lexus nav system is awarded top honors when systems are reviewed all the time and consistantly is awarded top honors in consumer surveys comparing systems. It is a minority of you who this really bothers.

Your choice is to continue fuming, or to simply adapt to the system as it is.

It is attitudes like yours that hurt everyone. Consumers should get what they want, not what a company wants to provide.

If they simply disclosed the limitation before the sale, I would not complain (of course, I'd have skipped it in favor of an after market one).

Also, the car maker shouldn't be telling me how to use the car. Its that simple. I'm the one responsible for driving, I should be the one to decide how I can best do that safely, not the auto maker. I wouldn't use it while driving, but my passengers would. I should be trusted to do that. After all, the state trusts me to drive a 3500+ pound vehicle around. I would agree if there was a law, but there is none.

You wouldn't buy a car that doesn't run on Thursdays. Why by a nav system that doesn't work when driving (which is the majority of the time you are in the car!)

Lexus, give us what we paid for.