SW03ES Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 Here's another link to the underwriting process, stating gender as an effect on risk that is not in the control of the applicant: http://www.aldoi.org/Prop_broch_auto_under.htm
SW03ES Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 Here's a quote from that site: "Gender and Age. Statistically, males still have more accidents than females. For that reason, young men may tend to pay more for insurance than young women. (A small number of states have prohibited insurers from using gender as a factor in underwriting.) Insurers also have statistics that show a higher number of claims for some age groups than for others."
ToddLS400 Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 http://www.aldoi.org/Prop_broch_auto_under.htm 3.) Gender and Age. Statistically, males still have more accidents than females. For that reason, young men may tend to pay more for insurance than young women. (A small number of states have prohibited insurers from using gender as a factor in underwriting.) Insurers also have statistics that show a higher number of claims for some age groups than for others. Ok, this is referring to young men (less than 25 years old) being in more accidents. That's why I had that caveat (as I suspected) in my previous post. It also says "A small number of states have prohibited insurers from using gender as a factor in underwriting.". That proves my point even more as this data is being compiled. Some states have seen that there is no stats to back up males paying higher premiums. Males may have been involved in more accidents but that's due to the pure higher number of men on the road opposed to women. I bet the averages would show that women are at least 2 to 1 more likely to be involved in a at fault accident opposed to a man. But there are less woman drivers on the road at all times. I strongly believe that. I agree that young men drive probably more wrecklessly than any group. I know because I drove kind of crazy in my younger years. But then again, I never caused a accident on the road. I did a stupid thing in the woods (rolled my 4X4) when I was younger. From my experiences, MOST women can't drive.
VMF Posted August 16, 2003 Author Posted August 16, 2003 i beleive its all for people under 25. once i turned 25 my insurance decreased to 2k from 5k!!!! and got 9 points on my license. my female friend just got a car and she pays 2700!. they said its the lowest they can go. oh btw isurance is on her aunt who has a clear license for couple of years.
ToddLS400 Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 Ughhh, you're not going to like this. This was taken from the same site that you already linked to> http://christianparty.8m.com/womendrivers.htm Women Drivers Are a Male Health Risk In 1997 alone, 41,967 American citizens were killed in auto accidents, 28,538 of which were men. If only men were allowed to drive on our streets and highways, and if they drove all the miles currently driven by both men and women, there would be 49% fewer traffic accidents. This would save $98 billion and 20,563 lives each year, 13,983 of which are men. Men are just as likely to be killed by women drivers as to be murdered, commit suicide, or die from cirrhosis or AIDS. Being a woman increases the probability of injury or fatal accident by 41%. Drinking 1.9 ounces of alcohol per day reduces the probability of a man having an accident by 80%. Men have 42% more fatal or injury crashes, but drive 88% more miles, than women. Women have 32% more crashes per million miles than men, 3.3 vs. 2.5. The reduction of alcohol consumption caused by MADD causes an additional 30,000 men heart disease deaths each year. Fatal crash involvement of men decreased 20 percent while that for women increased 28 percent. Contrary to MADD's claims, police reports reveal that only five percent of crashes are "alcohol related" (Table No. 1041) Consistent with women drivers, women pilots have 4 times more crashes than men pilots. The differences between the sexes in hand/eye coordination are dramatic! There are 4,119,842 drivers in crashes each year. Probability of a single car crash with a man driver = X Probability of a two car crash between two men drivers = X2 Probability of a two car crash between a man driver and a woman driver = XY Probability of a single car crash with a woman driver = Y Probability of a single two car crash between two women drivers = Y2 Probability of a single car crash between a man and a woman driver = YX X + X2 + XY = 2.5 Y + Y2 + YX = 3.3 XY = 3.3 -Y -Y2 X = (3.3 -Y -Y2)/Y X = 10.89 -6.6Y -5.6Y +2Y +Y 2.5Y = 3.3Y - Y -Y +10.89 -6.6Y -5.6Y2 +2Y3 +Y4 +3.3Y2 -Y3 -Y4 5.8Y2 +3.3Y -10.89 = 0 Y = 1.115 Y = 1.24 YX = .882 X = .791 X = .626 XY = .882 If women drivers were outlawed and all current miles driven per year were driven by men, the fatal and injury accident rate would be X + X2 = .791 + .626 = 1.417 accidents per trillion miles, or 1,417 per billion miles. Current miles driven of 1,478 billion miles x 1,417 accidents per billion miles = 2,094,326 drivers in crashes This is 1,169,098 drivers in single car crashes and 925,228 in two driver crashes, which is a 49% reduction This would save $98.1 billion per year, or $1,000 per year per family. Per Traffic Safety Facts' "Vehicle Miles of Travel, 1975-1996" http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/www/cfm/libr...ants&recordid=0 Americans drove passenger cars 1,478 billion miles in 1995. Per the "Early Results Report" of the Nationwide Personal Transportation Survey http://www-cta.ornl.gov/npts/1995/Doc/index.shtml men drive 65% or 965 billion and women drive 513 billion of those miles. Per Traffic Safety Facts' "Drivers Involvement in Crashes" from the FARS data base http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/www/cfm/libr...vers&recordid=0 male drivers were involved in 2,418,799 fatal and injury crashes and female drivers were involved in 1,701,043. Per mile driven, women have one third more fatal or injury crashes than men, 3.3 vs. 2.5 per one million miles driven, and 17% more property damage only accidents, 5.86 vs. 5.02. Per the National Safety Council http://www.nsc.org/lrs/statinfo/af78.htm the economic cost of motor vehicle crashes in 1997 was $200.3 billion. Per the 1994 Statistical Abstract of the United States, Table 1023, police departments report that 5% of all traffic crashes are "alcohol-involved" Table No. 1041 If you were to believe all of the claims made by the NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) Report DOT HS 808 770, you would believe that all kinds of new laws (DUI, Helmet, Safety) saved 19,534 lives. However, the actual decrease in the number of fatalities due to the decrease in the motor vehicle fatality rate was only 7,920, which is 11,614 fewer than all the claims. It is suspicious that NHTSA claims that the percent of alcohol-related fatalities decreased from 51% in 1987 to 30.3% in 1997, when such a decrease is almost equal to the actual total decrease in traffic fatalities. It is also contradictory to the Statistical Abstract which reports that police reports show that only 5% of all accidents are "alcohol involved". Traffic Fatalities NHTSA Claims Were Saved By New Laws Actual Lives Saved Due to Reduced Traffic Fatality Rate Lives Lost to Heart Disease Due To Reduced Alcohol Consumption Drinking & Driving Laws 7,452 7,920 29,887 Safety Belt Laws 10,750 Minimum Age Drinking Laws 846 Motorcycle Helmet Laws 486 Total 19,534
SW03ES Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 Ok, this is referring to young men (less than 25 years old) being in more accidents. That's why I had that caveat (as I suspected) in my previous post. It also says "A small number of states have prohibited insurers from using gender as a factor in underwriting.". That proves my point even more as this data is being compiled. Some states have seen that there is no stats to back up males paying higher premiums. Males may have been involved in more accidents but that's due to the pure higher number of men on the road opposed to women. I bet the averages would show that women are at least 2 to 1 more likely to be involved in a at fault accident opposed to a man. But there are less woman drivers on the road at all times. The article isn't written for people under 25 at all, the statement says "Men have more accidents than women" Not, young men. They mention that young men may pay significantly more because its more of a concern over a greater disparity. You say that some states prohibit underwriting based on gender because of "new data", I say its more likely a fairness issue. Again, you say that "you'd bet" statistics show this, this and this, but you've shown me no statistics. I've provided much more evidence than you have, all we have from you is your personal experience, which isn't even valid. You keep saying there are less women drivers on the road, but we've seen no evidence from you to that effect. Again, your personal experience isn't valid because you haven't lived or driven everywhere on earth. Here I see a balance of men and women, maybe even MORE WOMEN, but again thats not valid either because its here, not everywhere. All I've been doing is researching information to post here and have you shoot all to hell because of your limited, statistically insignificant experience telling you otherwise. I apologize if I sound heated, but it is somewhat frustrating. How about you try and find some information also?
SW03ES Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 Ughhh, you're not going to like this. This was taken from the same site that you already linked to> http://christianparty.8m.com/womendrivers.htm Oh shoot me, thats BIASED information! Find information from a GOVERNMENT agency thats not out to blast women back from the stoneage. That organization has an AGENDA, and that AGENDA is to discredit women as worthy citizens. How the hell do you expect anyone to take data from them seriously. Come on! I wish I'd never posted that stupid site.
SW03ES Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 This crap is laughable: "If only men were allowed to drive on our streets and highways, and if they drove all the miles currently driven by both men and women, there would be 49% fewer traffic accidents. " YEAH, THERE WOULD BE 50% LESS DRIVERS?!?!?!?!?! These people are a peice of work.
ToddLS400 Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 Women have 32% more crashes per million miles than men, 3.3 vs. 2.5. Fatal crash involvement of men decreased 20 percent while that for women increased 28 percent. Contrary to MADD's claims, police reports reveal that only five percent of crashes are "alcohol related" (Table No. 1041) Consistent with women drivers, women pilots have 4 times more crashes than men pilots. The differences between the sexes in hand/eye coordination are dramatic! There are 4,119,842 drivers in crashes each year. Probability of a single car crash with a man driver = X Probability of a two car crash between two men drivers = X2 Probability of a two car crash between a man driver and a woman driver = XY Probability of a single car crash with a woman driver = Y Probability of a single two car crash between two women drivers = Y2 Probability of a single car crash between a man and a woman driver = YX X + X2 + XY = 2.5 Y + Y2 + YX = 3.3 XY = 3.3 -Y -Y2 X = (3.3 -Y -Y2)/Y X = 10.89 -6.6Y -5.6Y +2Y +Y 2.5Y = 3.3Y - Y -Y +10.89 -6.6Y -5.6Y2 +2Y3 +Y4 +3.3Y2 -Y3 -Y4 5.8Y2 +3.3Y -10.89 = 0 Y = 1.115 Y = 1.24 YX = .882 X = .791 X = .626 XY = .882 If women drivers were outlawed and all current miles driven per year were driven by men, the fatal and injury accident rate would be X + X2 = .791 + .626 = 1.417 accidents per trillion miles, or 1,417 per billion miles. Current miles driven of 1,478 billion miles x 1,417 accidents per billion miles = 2,094,326 drivers in crashes This is 1,169,098 drivers in single car crashes and 925,228 in two driver crashes, which is a 49% reduction This would save $98.1 billion per year, or $1,000 per year per family.
SW03ES Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 First off, none of the information on that site is valid, they provide links to sources that don't work, and they do the dividing up of the accidents between gender themselves, the NHTSA DOES NOT DO THAT. Their data is in whole, or by age group. I can't find anything broken down by gender.
ToddLS400 Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 This crap is laughable:"If only men were allowed to drive on our streets and highways, and if they drove all the miles currently driven by both men and women, there would be 49% fewer traffic accidents. " YEAH, THERE WOULD BE 50% LESS DRIVERS?!?!?!?!?! These people are a peice of work. No, I actually I disagree with you. There would probably be more like 40% - 45% less drivers (average accidents with a lower # of drivers (men only) vs a higher # of drivers (men & women) on the road) less (maybe more?) on the road since most of the drivers on our roads are men. If we took that percentage of drivers (women) off the road and replaced them with male drivers, you would end up with roughly 28% - 18% less accidents due the accident to driver ratio in respect to the male and female driver. I would say that data is a little bias but overall it paints the real picture.
SW03ES Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 Okay, finally I found some real data: 1: Although there has been a dlarge disparity between men and women on the roads, that gap has closed between 1990 and 1995 to as little as a 5% difference. Also, work related commuting only accounted for 1/5th of all driving in 1995, so as you said more men commute, that doesn't matter because that portion of driving only accounts for 1/5th. The report also shows that another 1/5th of miles travelled is for shopping, would you agree women do more of that then men? I probably would. Data shows that women make 2/3s of the trips to take someone to a destination accounting for another peice of the pie. The data from this site, in 1995 Men drove a total of 1.7 trillion miles, while women drive 1.4. This was in 1995, and the gap has surely closed since then. I'm still reading the article, you can too: http://www-cta.ornl.gov/npts/1995/Doc/index.shtml
SW03ES Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 since most of the drivers on our roads are men You've provided no real evidence that most drivers are men, read the article up on top, it states that in 1995 only 54% of driven miles were driven by men.
SW03ES Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 It also shows that there are MORE female licensed drivers, 94,517 males, 95,804 females in 1999. (data reduced to thousands)
SW03ES Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 Unfortunately I'm gonna have to leave to get ready to go out to dinner, but I'm looking forward to coming back and reading your response ;) See, now who said a heated debate HAD to get personal?
ToddLS400 Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 since most of the drivers on our roads are men You've provided no real evidence that most drivers are men, read the article up on top, it states that in 1995 only 54% of driven miles were driven by men. I bet they're not taking into account the commercial delivery service industry that is mostly employed by men? These people drive daily as part of their job. So they drive more than any of us driving around in our Lexus. Plus they drive in their personal car (most likley) to and from work. I bet they're compiling these stats on the average commuter in a personally owned car. What do you think? Think of all the male taxi drivers in New York. Bus drivers, heavy truck operators, etc. It's freakin' hard to drive a huge delivery truck or a 18 wheeler. Wouldn't you say that's a little more difficult to navigate than a car? Yes, there are women that drive 18 wheelers but VERY FEW. We're talking about drive time actually on the road and/or miles traveled. Not the simple possession of a Driver's License. There is actually more women than men in the USA but men still have more issued driver's licenses and they drive more miles and more often on average. I went to that link before but it just sends me to the home page, not the article.
ToddLS400 Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 Unfortunately I'm gonna have to leave to get ready to go out to dinner, but I'm looking forward to coming back and reading your response ;)See, now who said a heated debate HAD to get personal? Hehe...What are you eating for dinner? I'll see ya later. :P
SW03ES Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 Beats me, I don't get to pick, I get to pay LOL. The article is linked off of that home page, its the thrid or fourth link down I think, its PDF article. It does include the numbers also for professionals.
SW03ES Posted August 16, 2003 Posted August 16, 2003 Here's the actual data sheet: http://nhts.ornl.gov/2001/html_files/trends_ver6.shtml
BG LEX Posted August 17, 2003 Posted August 17, 2003 WOW GUYS, just yesterday I was on this board and it wasnt 5 pages long! this is the hottest board Ive ever seen.. Now as to the debate, Im pretty sure I am the youngest one here, so let me give you my teenage point of view, luckily Ive never been in any crashes, and Im sorry for all that VMF went through, but I must agree with TODD and VMF ( SORRY SWO3ES ! ) Im not going to use any statistics, for my argument but think about what males have been into since they were born?? CARS TRUCKS and ANYTHING THAT HAS WHEELS that MOVES. :D B) We were playing with these hot Wheels since our first birthday, I myself has had around 300 hot wheels.. but obviously this doesnt prove anything, Im just trying to say that men/males/boys have been and will be more into cars than women will ever be... B) I can see a smile on your face after reading this because of after the complex SW03ES (VS) TODDLS400 debate here I am talking about HOT WHEELS finally, I gota say that for any given women (from my viewpoint) its just about getting from A to B and for any given men, its HOW you get from A to B, whether it be speed, luxury, etc. OK SW03ES and TODDLS400 you may continue!!!!
SW03ES Posted August 17, 2003 Posted August 17, 2003 LOL, I can see the humor in your post, but I also know women (my fiance for one) that can take apart and rebuild an engine with nothing but their own knowledge and a set of tools. That doesn't make her a good driver. She is, but thats beside the point. I also know many men who couldn't care less about cars, have never opened their hoods, and wouldn't be caught dead at a car show. Being interested in cars, knowing how they work etc has nothing to do with driving. You can love football and have no idea whatsoever how to play. You can also be a great basketball player and hate the game so much you dont play. Just because more boys play with cars as kids doesn't mean they're better drivers LOL. Driving is a skill, just like any other. Its the ability to operate an appliance. being interested in the appliance is a totally other, non connected matter. In fact, boys play with cars because thats what they're taught they SHOULD like playing with, and they're shamed if they're not, but thats an entirely different psychological discussion ;)
ToddLS400 Posted August 17, 2003 Posted August 17, 2003 From my experiences, MOST women can't drive. :o
ToddLS400 Posted August 17, 2003 Posted August 17, 2003 We heard! LOL ***> CLICK HERE to vote and see the results of "Who Hit Your Car In The Past?" <*** Oh, that's right. I already told you that... <_<
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