Question Reg. Factory Paint Finish

[W201 sweden]

Hello all you excellent board members! :)

(Extra good mood today - I slightly unexpectedley got $1200 tax money back...)

as so many of you already told me, the LS - seems to be a keeper. ^_^

So now I'm thinking of rectifieing some of the deeds of the previous owner. (Wealthy, careless family with dito careless kids...)

My -95 LS is black, and has been repainted very shortly before my purchase. (Which I of course saw, and since finish was not perfect, I got the price lowered accordingly!) ;)

So, I have a car without visible corrosion, no new dents, but some visible traces of damages not perfectly fixed before the paint. But I have couple of questions regarding the finish and coating.

What kind of surface finish was on the original paint on a -95 LS? Most new cars today (MB included) have terrible, orange peel like top structure, don't you agree?

On my repainted car, finish is better, but there is some of that orange peel look to mine too.

But when I check the original, factory paint job in doors etc, the finish is almost as good as on old vintage cars with "cellulose paint". (I tried to find an english translation - not sure I got it right.)

Was it originally mirror-like finish on my car, and did it also have some clear coating on top of the actual paint? (When you polish your car, will (or won't) the paint bleed slightly to the towel/rag/whatever?

/Alexander from Sweden

[nc211]

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...=27799&st=0

Alex, the thread above will take you to pictures of Blake's and my 95' LS's, just like yours...

It is my understanding "and very obvious if you put your fingernail on the paint" that our black 95 LS's have a soft paint. It is not covered in a clear coat. Bad for exposure to environmental junk, but GREAT for detailing. Very easy to bring back the shine. I suggest using an orbital buffer. The Porter's are the best, but are pretty expensive. I used a cheap $50 orbital buffer on mine. I did not have "black rags" of paint when I did mine. You might want to give the full detail thing a try before spending the money on painting the car. Just read that thread for instructions.....especially about using clay bars.

By the way, have any pictures of your car? Love to see it!

[SRK]

As NC211 says, the Lexus black is not clear coated. I believe all the other colours are. They would be an acrylic lacquer base with a urethane clear coat. The black would be a straight urethane.

The term "cellulose" comes from the original term "nitrocellulose lacquer" which was the original type of finish used for years until air drying and catalyzed enamels and urethanes became popular.

If you have the car repainted the shop will probably be using Sikkens, or BASF or Spies Hecker, all of which are equivalent to the OEM finished.

Lexus factory finishes are hand sanded between steps to reduce orange peel effect, and have some of the best results in any production car. I saw a new 2004 LS in the local showroom a while back, in black, and it was the best factory paint I have ever seen. Flawless, and I know paint finishes, having painted a few myself over the years.

[W201 sweden]

Thanks for all the information! Really impressive pictures you got there...

As I said, my car HAS already been repainted once. That job was probably done by somebody can paint, but not mix the stuff. The finish looks OK for any normal car, but Lexus standard? I believe no.

There IS some kind of problem with the paint, since it is very sensitive, and does not respond well to anything.

Just washing the car gently scratches it, and some bird dropping corroded the paint severly. I mean BAD - repainting BAD...

Gentle rubbing with a good silicone free polish will only make it look "foggy", and there was no way I could polish that corrosion away.

I've been working with cars for many years, and I've been getting very good results when detailing my previous cars, but this one needs some TLC and Sikkens, I believe.

Oh, and here she is (at the dealer where I bought her):

There should be a picture, I hope? I have more pictures if you want.

[blake918]

When you polish your car, will (or won't) the paint bleed slightly to the towel/rag/whatever?

Alex, my black '95 does bleed when I polish it. It sounds like there is nothing wrong with your paint since Lexus black does easily scratch and etch from hard water or bird droppings--that's the nature of the beast. My car looked horrible before I bought one of the Porter Cable buffers. Today, it looks 100x better than before, but it's not perfect--I'll say that I'm satisifed with the condition of the paint for it having 283,000 miles and a neglectful previous owner as well as some neglect of the paint from me as embaressed as I am to say that!

Polishing is amongst the very first steps in the detailing process. It is very normal that your car's paint got hazy after only polishing it. It is important to use the least abrasive products first and work up from there to achieve the results that you are looking for so that you don't remove more paint or clear than you need to in the process. And once you find the right pad and polish combo, it is important to work your way back down in abrasiveness of the pads and polish to minimize haziness of the paint. Then, finish it off with some good coats of wax, and your paint should appear to be wet, deep, and reflective.

After Steve convinced me that clear coatless cars are not the anit-Christ (that they are in fact easier to detail) and to buy a Porter Cable polisher, cleaning my car up was pretty easy. Here are a few pictures from along the way:

Starting point: 250,000 some odd miles, hellatious swirls, etchings, chips, and just about every other paint defect known to man other than orange peel!

A half and half. The left side has only one pass with the Porter Cable speed 6, yellow LC polishing pad, and SSR 3 polish:

Here she is after my first full detail with the Porter Cable (probably from October or so of '05). The etchings are still there, but they are definantly less noticeable and the paint has much, much better depth and shine sans the oxidation and swirls.

Sadly, I don't have any good current hood shots other than the one that's in the S&S forum--but I don't care for the dim lighting of that first picture. I'll be sure to photograph my next detail to show the progress.

Trunk lid:

Before: swirls, etchings, and just ugly.....

And many, many hours of detailing later:

I suppose one day down the line I'll have the car repainted (and the 2 tone is definantly staying!), that's if I decided to keep it long enough to recoup a $3k-$5k paint job.

[SW03ES]

The original Lexus black was single stage (Lexus started clearcoating its black in 2001, which is a shame since its not as deep). The single stage Lexus black is some of the smoothest, deepest black paint on the market. Lexus has one of the best finishes out there, despite some growing pains between 01-04 because of the new VOC requirements (My ES has orange peel in spots where new ones and old ones did not).

If yours is a repaint it may or may not have a clear, if you get color transfer when you're polishing its single stage. The single stage paint is soft and easily marred, but its also very easily polished out. You also have a lot of paint to work with, so you don't have to worry about polishing and wetsanding as much as you do on a car with a thin clear you can polish through.

[W201 sweden]

Thanks for these brilliant replies!

I REALLY appreciate that kind of detailed and technical answers.

Not many Lexus in Sweden, the old LS being even more rare, and esp. black ones, so there really is nothing to use for comparison... :(

OR - you can enjoy having a virtually "one of a kind" car... ;)

As soon as the weather gets better (rain and thunder outside...), I'll take a couple of shots of the hood!

/Alexander from rainy Sweden