Should I Go For The S350 Or Ls430? Need Advise Before 2pm Today?

[M500]

With all due respect I am STILL a Lexus owner and we have owned FOUR LS400/430's over a longer time span than yourself. We probably have spent over $220K on Lexus cars anod over 10K on service so I don't appreciate you responding in the manner that you have.

You seem to have this attitude that any post critical of Lexus is wrong. Sorry pal, we've have had Lexus cars since they came out so I know what I'm talking about. If you want to post propaganda, you go ahead but I have every right as a Lexus owner to comment. You can censor my comments if it makes you feel better but all it does is question the integrity of this very Board.

IF you even bothered to read my post properly I said that Lexus is MORE reliable than MB. Don't even bother spewing out all the Stats, because I know them all. I'm a Management Consultant who specializes in the Auto Industry, so I know what I am talking about. Why did I keep buying the cars? My nasty experiences with Lexus service on 92 LS are only a few months old..

My comment was on our personal experience, not generalizing. I've repeatedly qualified my experiences as "Boston Area Lexus Dealers" what more do you want??

I think I have EVERY right to criticize Lexus given my experience with them. I've had to sue them just to get them to ADMIT they made a mistake on my 1992 LS repairs. Another time they sold me a 1998 that hadn't been Certified properly. The car would stall and the display cluster would flicker for no reason. Again Lexus Corporate did nothing. It took yet another lawyer's letter to get thed

-Sam

Looks like Lexus dealer at your area really sucks and not up to part with the rest. Just like my local BMW dealer here. Thats' why I gave up on BMWs after owning 4 of them from the last 15 years. A 91' 325ic, 93' 530i, 94' 740iL and 95' 840Ci. After 15 yesr of constantly having my car serviced I get to know the entire service personnel as I'm there almost once every month for the same or different BMW I own. That was the good old days until I move to Ventura and had to deal with Rusnak in Westlake village. The service was horrible. I have my power steering leaking where make my 740iL have hard to drive and I have to constatly re-fill the fluids just to be able to drive. I have extended warranty but when I contacted them, they told me that there is nothing they can do and I'll need to have an appointment with them to have someone look at it. And the next open slot is 4 week from today. After this experience I swear I would never buy another BMW new as a primary carr and if I do buy one for spare I would go used and have my own mechanic service it.

[SW03ES]

With all due respect I am STILL a Lexus owner and we have owned FOUR LS400/430's over a longer time span than yourself. We probably have spent over $220K on Lexus cars anod over 10K on service so I don't appreciate you responding in the manner that you have.

In what manner have I responded? All I said was that its unreasonable to be surprised when you have a steering rack replacement on a 14 year old car. The car is old, things break.

You seem to have this attitude that any post critical of Lexus is wrong. Sorry pal, we've have had Lexus cars since they came out so I know what I'm talking about. If you want to post propaganda, you go ahead but I have every right as a Lexus owner to comment. You can censor my comments if it makes you feel better but all it does is question the integrity of this very Board.

Not at all, who'se posting propaganda? All I said was that Lexus has a proven track record in customer satisfaction and reliability, which they do. You insinuated that your experience in those areas had been poor, I was pointing out thats not the norm. And who'se censoring anybody's comments? I'm attempting to have a discussion with you.

I'm a Management Consultant who specializes in the Auto Industry, so I know what I am talking about.

As am I, or I was until about 6 months ago, so I too know what I'm talking about.

So does that meet your standards for Customer Service? I get entrusted with clients who have given us $4 Million contracts. If I EVER treated someone like that I'd be fired pure and simple. Do you think it's okay for Lexus Corporate to do nothing? If I sound angry it's because I am. We were loyal Lexus customers for over 14 yrs and this is how they treat us! How would you like it if you spend $220K with a certain company and they treat you like crap?

Of course its not okay, but its certainly not the norm. My question is what do you want any of us to do about your issues? Whats your goal? My issue comes from people coming in here with cars nearly old enough to drive themselves denigrating the Lexus brand because they're not 100% reliable.

Did I say the customer service I have received is better from MB? Yes I did.

So far all you've done is buy one, wait until it starts needing to be maintained and repaired.

I resent the accusation that I'm a troll, especially after the amount of $$$ I've invested in Lexus cars.

Who said you were a troll? You do seem unwilling to discuss your opinions or experiences or listen to opposing points of view, so I suggested that you try posting them on mbworld.org if you wanted people to be more receptive of them but I never called you a troll. As for the amount of money you've invested, why should I or anyone else owe you anything or treat you any certain way because of the money you've spent? You didn't pay it to us.

[JIBBBY]

Wait for the 460 that will be an awesome car.....

[M500]

None, taken. That why I already have a set of 19" ready to be mounted.

Hey, M500, what are you going with the OEM rims you're taking off? Send me an e-mail if you're interested in selling: chris@giles1.com

I'm keeping it as my winter tire.

[SW03ES]

Are you going to mount winter tires on it? if so I wouldn't keep the factory rims. 18s are going to be hard to find snow tires for.

[sv7887]

SWO3ES,

I'm not going to get in a pointless discussion with you, but let me address some points you've made.

"Sorry you had a bad experience but come on, why did you keep buying these things if your experience was so "poor". You're justifying your purchase by denigrating the options you didn't select I understand that, but you're fooling yourself if you think you can post stuff like that on a Lexus board and not have somebody call you on it. Glad you're happy with your purchase, you should check out www.mbworld.org"

How am I denigrating Lexus? Excuse me, I have every right to be upset given the lack of support I've gotten from Lexus. I'm glad you've had a positive experience, but I have not. Those statistics are worthless to me.

"All I said was that Lexus has a proven track record in customer satisfaction and reliability, which they do. You insinuated that your experience in those areas had been poor, I was pointing out thats not the norm. And who'se censoring anybody's comments? I'm attempting to have a discussion with you"

I haven't insinuated anything. Do you want to see copies of the letters I've sent to dealerships? Go look up Lexus of Watertown in the Better Business Bureau..

"Of course its not okay, but its certainly not the norm. My question is what do you want any of us to do about your issues? Whats your goal? My issue comes from people coming in here with cars nearly old enough to drive themselves denigrating the Lexus brand because they're not 100% reliable."

At least we agree on the first point. I don't want anything, so I am not sure what you're on about there. This is a forum to share experiences with Lexus cars. I'm simply posting my experience in the name of balance. Sure 95% of Lexus customers are happy, but people who come on this board should hear about what happened in the 5% that weren't happy.

How am I denigrating the Lexus brand? My comment on the 1992 LS was only ONE of SEVERAL issues I've had with a CPO 1998, Brand new 2002 LS and a Brand new 2005. If you recall it wasn't just the fact that the Power Steering Rack failed, it was the attempt on the dealership's part to defraud me of $4,000.

People have a right to know that Lexus is not the second coming of Christ himself.

QUOTE

Did I say the customer service I have received is better from MB? Yes I did.

"So far all you've done is buy one, wait until it starts needing to be maintained and repaired"

You accuse me of denigrating Lexus yet you are suggesting the level of service I will receive from Mercedes will be worse in the future? Who is denigrating who here? The MB dealer I bought the car from is well regarded. Besides Maintenance is paid for 39 months on that car anyway. I don't have pay for anything, and it's warrantied until 2010.

"Who said you were a troll? You do seem unwilling to discuss your opinions or experiences or listen to opposing points of view, so I suggested that you try posting them on mbworld.org if you wanted people to be more receptive of them but I never called you a troll. As for the amount of money you've invested, why should I or anyone else owe you anything or treat you any certain way because of the money you've spent? You didn't pay it to us."

My only discourse regarding this issue is with you. Go read my other 30 or so posts, I've always been willing to listen. In fact another poster on this thread shared his BMW experience with me and felt the same way. Why is it that you think I want something from you anyway? I'm simply responding to your accusation that I'm unjustly "Denigrating" Lexus.

My post in this thread documented my purchase of a S430 for some very good reasons. You claim:

"You're justifying your purchase by denigrating the options you didn't select I understand that, but you're fooling yourself if you think you can post stuff like that on a Lexus board and not have somebody call you on it."

You make it sound like I'm putting down Lexus for no reason. Yet, if you read my posts, I have some very good reasons. How am I fooling myself?? What exactly are you "Calling me on?" I posted my PERSONAL experience with Boston Area Lexus dealers. I qualify my statements by saying I've owned FOUR LS400/430 bought NEW/CPO and serviced at Lexus. What more do you want?

Here's what I've established:

1) I'm a long time Lexus owner who has owned 4 LS400/430's two which were BRAND NEW and Two CPO.

2) I've had some very bad experiences with Lexus Service AND Corporate, some of which led to led to legal action to get anywhere

3) I'm ticked off at Lexus and hence made a switch to MB. I don't see how I'm "Denigrating" anything here..

4) My purchasing experience with MB has been better than Lexus. No lies, No BS, UNLIKE my Lexus experience. They quickly told me the car they found for me had 600 miles on it, and offered to find another.

5) My experiences with the last two BRAND NEW cars haven't been as flawless as advertised

6) Lexus Customer Service hasn't been as good as advertised

You seem to miss the point I'm making completely. I've already said my experience is in the minority. My experience and $$$ invested in Lexus are only mentioned to make sure the reader understands I'm very qualified to make that judgement and I'm not some 14 yr old Troll. I'm not some Anti Lexus person. My loyalty was demonstrated over 14 years and $230,000 of my money. That establishes the credibility I have to raise an issue like this.

Also keep in mind I still own my 1992 LS400. Obviously I don't hate Lexus otherwise I wouldn't invest the kind of money I have in a 14 yr old car.

-Sam

[Rx330driver]

hey sv7887, just wondering, how much did you pay for that '06 s class, cause they must be making room for the new 07s, which has to be the best looking car out there right now. Why didnt you wait for the 07!! i know they only have one trim level, the S550, but it is a gorgeous car, i would never be able to afford a car with all my likings for 100K. lol

[M500]

sv7887,

How did you get free maintenance from MB? I know that they stopped free maintenace back in 2005 just like Lexus did. So far only BMW still offer it. But with my experience with my local BMW dealership, unless I move back close to New Century BMW in Alhambra. I will not get another BMW.

[SW03ES]

sv- Oh just drop it already.

sv7887,

How did you get free maintenance from MB? I know that they stopped free maintenace back in 2005 just like Lexus did. So far only BMW still offer it. But with my experience with my local BMW dealership, unless I move back close to New Century BMW in Alhambra. I will not get another BMW.

Mercedes itself doesn't offer it AFAIK, but some individual dealerships do. Some Lexus dealers offer free scheduled maintenance too.

For the record, Lexus has never offered free maintenance.

[sv7887]

hey sv7887, just wondering, how much did you pay for that '06 s class, cause they must be making room for the new 07s, which has to be the best looking car out there right now. Why didnt you wait for the 07!! i know they only have one trim level, the S550, but it is a gorgeous car, i would never be able to afford a car with all my likings for 100K. lol

Hey Rx330driver,

I paid 68,800 (USD) for a S430 4 Matic stickered at 79,990. I personally did not like the 2007 look and definitely did not want to take my chances on a first year production car. People are already complaining on the MB message boards about some minor issues with this new car. Besides, the old body style is a much better value. I got 48K in trade for my 2005 LS430 with 7200 miles.

The Free Maintenance was thrown in as part of the deal. I told them I wasn't crazy about paying $300 for a glorified oil change. So I got a little extra in the deal. I still think 10K between oil changes is far too long. I'll have an independent dealer change it at 5K intervals.

These cars are like apples and oranges. The only thing I can say as of now is that the customer service at this MB dealership is better than those of my Lexus ones. You normally find out the quality when things go wrong. The original car they found for me had 600 miles on the clock. They immediately informed me and offered to 1) find another one 2) Compensate me for my trouble 3) Bring that car on a flatbed truck to avoid any additional mileage.

So they brought me a new one from Maryland at their expense, no questions asked. That car ended up being $200 more but they didn't charge me the extra $200. They've done a great job thus far, well beyond anything I've experienced before. I'm definitely going to write a letter to the Owner commending his Sales staff.

---Just to be clear---

My previous posts aren't here to "Denigrate" Lexus, but to disprove the notion that "Lexus can do no wrong." I know how statistics work, but statistics are worthless to those who end up in the 5% of customers who aren't being treated properly. For example, try telling a Thryroid Cancer patient (A Disease with a 85-90% cure rate) that he's one of the bottom 10% that dies from it...At that point that 85-90% cure rate is meaningless. I presented my ownership experience of 4 cars, two CPO and two brand new. Problems were encountered in ALL cases, hence my dim view of Lexus Corporate and Customer Service.

Potential owners who come on this board have a right to know how ALL owners are being treated, not just those with a perfect experience. This is not meant to take away from the actual product Lexus makes. Everyone here knows Lexus has been No 1 in reliability since 1990. (I think a brief fall in the mid 90's due to the GS and later the RX). But it's important to note that they are a business like anyone else. Those expecting some sort of Utopian world are just fooling themselves.

I think I've made my points clear and supported them with my individual experience. I'm not a MB salesman or anything, all I am trying to say is that to remain vigilant and don't let dealers rip you off!!

-Sam