914lps Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 I put a new (rebuilt) Power Steering pump on about 3 weeks ago. Last nigh when I was about 300 miles into a 400+ mile drive the pump seized up and took out the serpentine belt at about 75 MPH. Almost all my warning lights came on. Like Brake, Oil, Battery. I pulled over and stopped the car. Looked under the hood. No belt. I restarted the car and made it into a Pep Boys ( I know there are better places to go, but I could see this from the highway and I was in a strange town (On a Sunday Night at 5 pm). Got there just in time for them to lock the car in the shop for the night. I walked to a hotel. They called this AM. Car will be ready on Tuesday in the morning. Almost $600.00 for new pump belt etc… But I can’t complain as I’m stuck here…. Now for the important question. They just called to tell me they got the pump and belt on, but when they started the car it was blowing massive amounts of smoke. They say that when the pump went out some how the fluid went into the manifold. Does this sound right, and should everything be OK, or could I be looking at more damage? I know that the pump has a vacuum line attached to it. I’m guessing that is the route the oil took to get into the manifold. :chairshot: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monarch Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 Yes, there is an air control valve that is threaded into to the power steering pump. If the valve is bad, power steering fluid (auto trans fluid) gets sucked into the intake manifold and burned, resulting in a smokey exhaust. For this reason, to ensure long term reliability from the PS system, some owners install a new air control valve whenever they install a new PS pump. If I had to guess, I'd say maybe your air control valve allowed PS fluid to flow into the manifold while you were driving causing the PS fluid level in the reservoir to get real low which in turn caused the pump to overheat and seize up. In any case, the seized pump could not have harmed your engine so you don't need to worry about "more damage" (although I hope your alternator did not get contaminated with a bunch of leaking power steering fluid) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
914lps Posted November 22, 2005 Author Share Posted November 22, 2005 I hope the Altanator is ok to as it is also only 3 weeks old. Could the pump failing make the valve go out??? I checked fliud level before departing and it was right on the mark. Would it go that low in only 200 miles?? Also no smoke when it first happened. Smoke only showed up after they put new pump on and restrated the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mehullica Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 Sounds like the old idle-up valve sucked out the fluid and killed the rebuilt pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
914lps Posted November 22, 2005 Author Share Posted November 22, 2005 Sounds like the old idle-up valve sucked out the fluid and killed the rebuilt pump. ← The valve showed no signs of going bad. Fliud level was staying good. If it went bad could it suck the system dry in 200 miles??? Also when the shop started the car before working on it, no smoke. And system had fluid in the pump. Smoking started after installing new pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monarch Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 If the dashboard warning lights are now off then the alternator is OK. Mehullica is a highly experienced Lexus service tech and if he is right about your old idle-up valve (also called the air control valve) possibly being bad, then your worries may not be over because it's likely the repair shop that worked on your car transfered the old valve over to your new pump. Therefore there is a chance this old idle-up valve could suck out the PS fluid again during a long drive and starve your new pump of lubrication. So as you continue on your trip, I'd keep checking the PS fluid level in the reservoir every 25-50 miles or so and keep it topped off as necessary (but don't overfill it of course). If the fluid level drops, I'd order a new air control valve. They cost around $70 from discount toyota dealers like 1sttoyotaparts.com The toyota part# is 17630-16040. As a side note, did you modify your PS system in any way when you installed the rebuilt pump from Autozone? Like did you install an aftermarket filter in any of your PS hoses? Did you cut the hoses to install the filter? Did you install new aftermarket hoses? Or new aftermarket hose clamps? The reason I ask is because any mods of this nature could also be potential sources of the PS fluid leakage which in turn could have starved the pump of lubrication resulting in its failure. Lastly, did you floor the gas pedal during your trip? The tendency of a bad air control valve to suck fluid out of the system might be greater during wide open throttle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
914lps Posted November 22, 2005 Author Share Posted November 22, 2005 The shop is working on the valve right now. Again it seemed OK before they put the new pump on. And the resevor had fliud in it. Now that the new pump is on, the car is smoking. It did not blow any smoke before or after the falure. Not until the new pump was on. I do have an inline filter in place, but it has been there a long time. I do not think the system was killed by a loss of fliud. Again I checked all leveals etc, and As I'm always checking review I never saw any smoke, and if valve was sucking it down that hard, I would have had a lot of smoke..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monarch Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 This thread has great info. and photos of the air control valve plumbing and diagnostics http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...opic=6583&st=15 I guess the last possibility is that if the Autozone pump was not starved of fluid then it was not rebuilt properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsalih Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 I think you hit it right on Monarch, you mentioned the word Autozone!! I've said this before and I'll say it again, be very very careful what you buy from autozone as they sell the poorest quality rebuilds around (which is also evident with their rock bottom prices). I'm sure there are many out there that have had no problem with a rebuilt unit from this place, but if you do some research (or try it out yourself) you will find that they have the highest failure and return rates on their rebuilt parts. Yes, they do offer a lifetime warranty but that's very misleading. I'm going to bet on this one that your autozone PS pump was the culprit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
914lps Posted November 23, 2005 Author Share Posted November 23, 2005 Well I got my car back and drove it home without any trouble. But this morning in the light of day, I was shocked. Pep Boys filled the system with clear power steering fluid. And the vacuum line coming from the air intake by the mass air flow unit has been blocked off. I do not know why?? But the nipple from the plastic housing has been snapped off, and a plug was put in! The Vacuum line to the manifold is OK. So, I'm off to the parts store to buy some DexIII and do a flush. 8 quarts should do it. As I do not know if there is an issue with the valve on the pump and fluid going into the manifold, I will get a clear gas filter and put it in line on the vacuum and watch it like a hawk. The Pump that failed had a catastrophic bearing failure. I will post photos. Nothing to do with if there was fluid in the system or not. I’m sure there was as when this happened it was immediate. No warning noises, and the old pump had fluid in it when it was pulled off the car. I will be posting the question of what can power steering fluid do to my system, instead of Dex III? I know this has come up before but I have never seen a definitive answer. Pep Boys states they called a dealer and was told to use Power Steering Fluid. I called three dealers. One stated Power Steering, One said either one is fine, and one said only Dex III. I called Lexus USA. They had no one there to ask, so they called two dealers and called me back. They stated “It should be OK, but change it if you want to, if it was going to hurt the system, you would have had the steering fail on your drive home! What kind of answer is “It Should Be OK???” What is with that??? I know both are Hydraulic fluids but I’m sure the viscosity, heat rating, and other specifications are different. :chairshot: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monarch Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 Pep Boys states they called a dealer and was told to use Power Steering Fluid. I called three dealers. One stated Power Steering, One said either one is fine, and one said only Dex III. ← Over the past 33 years, millions of Toyota's & Lexus's have rolled into Pep Boys repair shops and the ones with power steering have all had the words "Use Dexron Type ATF" engraved in the Power Steering Reservoir Caps. Yet Pep Boys is still calling Toyota dealers to find out what fluid to use. That would be a good one for Jay Leno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
914lps Posted November 24, 2005 Author Share Posted November 24, 2005 OK Here is what the "Old" pump looks like. I put it on a few weeks ago. I plan on letting AutoZone and the Manufacture that I expect more then just the cost of the pump back. This failure cost me almost $600.00 to replace the unit. $300.00 for a hotel bill, and a lost business meeting. As you can see the main baring on the outside of the pump had a catastrophic failure after being on the car for only a few weeks. I believe this goes beyond simply a normal failure. There is no way this unit was rebuilt correctly, or quality inspected correctly. Also I'm posting a photo of how Pep Boys left my vacuum lines. They broke the "nipple" of the air intake, and plugged the line. Also filled unit with Power Steering Fluid instead of DexIII as stated on the cap of the pump! I now must flush and fill the system with DEX III. I will also temporally fix the vacuum lines and fittings with some JB Weld. To make sure I do not have a problem with the vacuum valve on the pump, I’ll put a clear gas filter inline so I can look for fluid being sucked. Pep Boys told me that fluid got into the manifold making the car smoke like crazy when I got it back. Smoke looked to be White…. I’m guessing when they took the old pump off, they did not first take off the vacuum lines and when lifting the unit off the car, they broke the fitting off, and fluid flowed “down” the line into the manifold. On driving the car home I put some B12 ChemTool into the gas tank to help clean things and also did the trick of using a vacuum line to suck some B12 into the intake manifold. After 20 to 30 miles all smoking was gone. Even when I punched it and went from 0 to 80. Oh, Please no one tell me I should not have let Pep Boys work on the car. It was not by choice, but dictated by circumstances. I did not want to have it towed to a dealer (about 80 miles), or take my chances finding a shop out of the phone book. Well as one turkey to another, here’s to surviving another Thanks Giving! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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