Valve Adjustment Dilemma.

[lexguy2000]

My wife's 2000 with 75,000 is at the dealer being serviced. I asked them to listen to the engine for a ticking noise. They explained that it needs a valve adjustment ( very expensive due to labor - camshafts have to be removed ). It is my understanding that this generation LS400 has hydraulic valves and does not require valve adjustments as part of the preventive maintenance. The service history indicates that the cylinder heads were off the car at 49K by Lexus (why I do not know). Could they have been not adjusted properly on the reinstall? I'm out of the powertrain warranty by miles but not time. This car is clean with no accidents and 80% of the services were done by Lexus. I'm generating a $1,600 bill between the service and repairs covered by an extended warranty. I asked the service advisor to ask the service manager to goodwill the valve adjustment. 2 days later he told me no. Let me mention that the car runs great. It's the noise that bothers me. I plan to call the service manager on Monday to discuss this further. Any ideas or suggestions?

[monarch]

TThere are 2 cylinder heads, 2 camshafts per cylinder head, 8 valves per camshaft, 32 valves total. A camshaft needs to be removed if and only if there is one or more of the 8 valves it drives are out of adjustment. Checking the clearances does not require removing any camshafts. So a dealer should not charge too much just to check clearances, but only charge alot if one or more camshafts need to be removed. Obviously the dealer should base the price on the number of camshafts (if any) that need to be removed and number of valves that need adjusting (if any),

but perhaps some charge a blanket 4 camshaft removal price on all valve clearance jobs. I just don't know what they do in regard to pricing valve clearance jobs.

Your scheduled maintenance guide calls for an audible valve clearance inspection every 60,000 miles. Normally on a 1995 on up LS400 that wasn't raced and which received all it's oil changes and other preventive maintenance on time, the valves stay quiet and don't get out of adjustment for over 250,000 miles and owners never need to pay to have them adjusted. However, in your cars' case since the cylinder heads were removed at 49,000 miles, something traumatic likely happened to the engine at that time, like the prior owner might have overheated it, ran it way low on engine oil or something horrible like that. Some valves or the associated mechanical valve lifters could have been damaged at the time the trauma occurred (Lexus's do not have hydraulic lifters) causing the clearances to get out of adjustment.

If it was my car I'd get a printout of the service history from the dealer to find out specifically why the heads were removed (to fix what?) and to find out if it was for a repair covered under warranty or not. If the heads were removed to repair mechanical faults due to owner abuse / neglect such as for overheating, blown head gaskets, or running low on oil then I'd probably have to bite the bullet and pay for the valve adjustment and any other damage that is found to be due to the prior owner's abuse and neglect.

Another option is to get a second opinion from another dealer on the likely source of the ticking noise since the valvetrain isn't the only possible source of ticking noises. But the valvetrain is the likely source if the engine suffered trauma at 49,000 miles as noted above.

[lexguy2000]

TThere are 2 cylinder heads, 2 camshafts per cylinder head, 8 valves per camshaft, 32 valves total. A camshaft needs to be removed if and only if there is one or more of the 8 valves it drives are out of adjustment.  Checking the clearances does not require removing any camshafts.  So a dealer should not charge too much just to check clearances, but only charge alot if one or more camshafts need to be removed.  Obviously the dealer should base the price on the number of camshafts (if any) that need to be removed and number of valves that need adjusting (if any),

but perhaps some charge a blanket 4 camshaft removal price on all valve clearance jobs.  I just don't know what they do in regard to pricing valve clearance jobs.

Your scheduled maintenance guide calls for an audible valve clearance inspection every 60,000 miles.  Normally on a 1995 on up LS400 that wasn't raced and which received all it's oil changes and other preventive maintenance on time, the valves stay quiet and don't get out of adjustment for over 250,000 miles and owners never need to pay to have them adjusted.  However, in your cars' case since the cylinder heads were removed at 49,000 miles, something traumatic likely happened to the engine at that time, like the prior owner might have overheated it, ran it way low on engine oil or something horrible like that.  Some valves or the associated mechanical valve lifters could have been damaged at the time the trauma occurred (Lexus's do not have hydraulic lifters) causing the clearances to get out of adjustment.

If it was my car I'd get a printout of the service history from the dealer to find out specifically why the heads were removed (to fix what?) and to find out if it was for a repair covered under warranty or not.  If the heads were removed to repair mechanical faults due to owner abuse / neglect such as for overheating, blown head gaskets, or running low on oil then I'd probably have to bite the bullet and pay for the valve adjustment and any other damage that is found to be due to the prior owner's abuse and neglect.

Another option is to get a second opinion from another dealer on the likely source of the ticking noise since the valvetrain isn't the only possible source of ticking noises.  But the valvetrain is the likely source if the engine suffered trauma at 49,000 miles as noted above.

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Thanks for your input. The car runs, idles, and performs perfectly. With this in mind, I don't feel there is any damage. If an engine gets damaged it can be successfully repaired. Based on what I know, I'd have to say it is and was an "improper assembly" issue. I do have a printout from the dealer on the service history. There is no operation explanation just " op codes " #110011 and #161011 and the descriptions are cyl hd subassy (w/o all vlv) and water pump assy &/or gskt. Strange a water pump needs replacement at that mileage. Also, there was a 5K service done, a certified pre-owned PDI, an alignment, and multiple "unknowns". Can anyone translate dealer service option codes?

[1990LS400]

It is fairly standard to change the water pump when the timing belt is removed since it doesn't cost that much more to do. In fact, a water pump seized in my first LS and caused the timing belt to fail. I sure hope that never happens in my 00 LS since there will be will serious damage. It didn't matter in the early LS since they were non-interference engines.

I think the main case you can make is that a valve adjustment should be effective for more than just 26,000 miles. I suspect they would cut you more slack if you were the owner when the head work was done at 49,000 miles. Do you think the dealer would pay 1/2 the cost of the valve adjustment fee? That is better than nothing.

[lexguy2000]

It is fairly standard to change the water pump when the timing belt is removed since it doesn't cost that much more to do.  In fact, a water pump seized in my first LS and caused the timing belt to fail.  I sure hope that never happens in my 00 LS since there will be will serious damage.  It didn't matter in the early LS since they were non-interference engines.

I think the main case you can make is that a valve adjustment should be effective for more than just 26,000 miles.  I suspect they would cut you more slack if you were the owner when the head work was done at 49,000 miles.  Do you think the dealer would pay 1/2 the cost of the valve adjustment fee?  That is better than nothing.

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You hit my main contention on the head. In theory, if the valves were adjusted properly during the assembly there would not be an issue. I was not the owner when this repair was done. I'm contacting the service manager in the morning and pleading my case. I'm hopeful I can reason with him. If this effort fails, I'm calling Lexus customer service. I will post the results.

[lexguy2000]

It is fairly standard to change the water pump when the timing belt is removed since it doesn't cost that much more to do.  In fact, a water pump seized in my first LS and caused the timing belt to fail.  I sure hope that never happens in my 00 LS since there will be will serious damage.  It didn't matter in the early LS since they were non-interference engines.

I think the main case you can make is that a valve adjustment should be effective for more than just 26,000 miles.  I suspect they would cut you more slack if you were the owner when the head work was done at 49,000 miles.  Do you think the dealer would pay 1/2 the cost of the valve adjustment fee?  That is better than nothing.

←

You hit my main contention on the head. In theory, if the valves were adjusted properly during the assembly there would not be an issue. I was not the owner when this repair was done. I'm contacting the service manager in the morning and pleading my case. I'm hopeful I can reason with him. If this effort fails, I'm calling Lexus customer service. I will post the results.

←

I promised to post an update on the outcome of the valve adjustment controversy. Lexus and I split the cost of the valve adjustment (my end was $802.00). I really appreciate the consideration I was given by the company. I feel comfortable knowing Lexus truly cares about my ownership experience. They have no idea how loyal I am.