Buying Mercedes, But May Keep Lexus Too....

[ec437]

The BMW owners I'm talking about are the enthusiasts of the older BMW's. ie, the e30, the e30 m3, the e28, the e28 m5, the original 6 series, the m6, the bavaria, the 2002, the 1800, the 3.0's, and all the antiquated models that you have never heard of

And I have heard of every one of those models, could point them out in pictures and could give you a breif general timeline of their lineage. Again, please stop talking to me like I'm not a car enthusiast because I don't have a BMW.

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Just my .02 but all those BMW's were rust buckets also...I sold lots of replacement panels for those cars.... ;)

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far from it, most were only rust buckets if the owners paid them no attention.

[ec437]

BMW's are only unrealiable if you neglect them. They are not unrealiable vehicles, they are high maitenance vehicles, and were designed to be as such. HUGE difference, and maintaining our own car is part of the satisfaction that us classic BMW drivers get from our cars. They are very reliable and will last a long, long time without ever breaking down if properly mantained, and keeping them mantained is not such a huge task, either.

Thats just simply not true. I can name your probably 10 people off the top of my head who purchased brand new BMWs and then had serious reliability and quality problems right after purchase, some of them getting new cars from BMW and some of them selling the cars themselves within a matter of months after purchase. My dad has a client that had an LS400 and traded it on a 750iL. He had so many problems he sold it 3 months later and bought an LS430 at a substantial loss. I'm not saying ALL BMWs have these problems, but they definately have more reliability and quality issues than Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, Cadillac, or Lincoln. I believe they're still rated higher than Mercedes though. This has been proven through comparitive owner surveys.

*disclaimer* (again)

Everything I say applies to older BMW's, perhaps only older BMW's. I have little or no experience with models less than 10 years old. However, I also can name 10 people off the top of my head that have had no problems with their new BMW's. I know families that drive nothing but new BMW's.

High maintenance vehicles and are designed to be as such? Thats something all BMWophiles say and it doesn't make any sense. You're saying they DESIGN the electrical systems to get screwy if driven on salty roads or that they DESIGN simple convenience components such as power windows and navigation systems that exhibit electrical gremlins that cause irreperable system failures? They didn't design these things that way, its poor engineering.

electrical gremlins caused by corrosion because of improper winterizing procedures on the part of the owner aren't really a good example of unreliable.:chairshot: I mean come on, that 7 series we were talking about was made in the early to mid 80's, and was/is many years older than your lexuses. Cars don't last forever, and I think it is unfair to compare a 20+ year old BMW that wasn't properly looked after to a newer lexus that has had good maitenance its entire life.

I'm not saying BMWs are bad cars but saying they're reliable cars is far from the truth, all the evidence supports the OPPOSITE of that view.

But they are reliable cars, if properly mantained. I can tell you this from personal experience with them, not just from things I've heard from other people.

HUGE difference, and maintaining our own car is part of the satisfaction that us classic BMW drivers get from our cars.

Thats another thing BMWophiles always purport, that they are the only true enthusiast and owners of "lesser" vehicles like Lexus, Mercedes, whatever simply aren't enthusiasts or car people. Thats simply rediculous, like I said before, look around these and other Lexus forums and you will find PLENTY of tuners, PLENTY of DIYers, and PLENTY of people that track race their cars. Thats not unique to BMW owners and they don't corner the market on car enthusiasts.

Never said that other cars were lesser, and never said they cornered the market on anything. I only said that their products are (or at least used to be) marketed to a different demographic, a more performance oriented one.

PS: my BMW, in 163,000 miles of life, did never once leave its owner on the side of the road.

Niether has my Ford Explorer, but I'd never call it well built or reliable.

ah ha, but our ford explorer went through 4 transmissions, 3 radiators, numerous power steering pumps, and other things, leaving us stranded more than once. It eventually died of a cracked head at 184,000 miles, running on just 5 cylinders. We were the original owners, BTW, and had mantained it well, it was just a terribly designed car. The BMW, however, was reliable.

[ec437]

What kind of maintinance procedures are you talking about(when you say they are high maintinance cars)?

Oil/filter every 3,000 miles (use the right viscosity!!!)

brake/clutch fluid anually

coolant bianually

new pads every 30,000 miles

Every 4 years or 50,000 miles:

1. Timing belt and tensioner

2. Water pump and gasket

3. Thermostat

4. All drive belts

5. All water hoses

6. All vacuum hoses

7. All rubber gas hoses

8. Fuel filter

9. O2 sensor

10. Valve cover gasket/with 4 rubber dams

11. Adjust valves and new plugs (valves adjusted from every 15,000 to 20,000 miles with new plugs and gasket and rubber dams)

12. Dist. cap and rotor

13. air filter

14. Change tranny and differential oil (an automatic may be need to be serviced more)

Other misc. things that should be checked ocasionally:

tires (tire pressures too)

fan clutch

suspension

exhaust system

guibo (flex disk in the driveshaft)

A/C charge

fuel pump

wheel bearings

and many, many other things that would take too long to list here. Here is the official e30 maintenance table if you want to look at it.

http://www.bmwe30.net/cgi-bin/datacgi/data...0006&Section=14

If you neglected almost any of these things, the car would still be reliable, but not to the degree that it would be if properly mantained.

[SW03ES]

ah ha, but our ford explorer went through 4 transmissions, 3 radiators, numerous power steering pumps, and other things, leaving us stranded more than once. It eventually died of a cracked head at 184,000 miles, running on just 5 cylinders. We were the original owners, BTW, and had mantained it well, it was just a terribly designed car. The BMW, however, was reliable.

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LOL, so has mine but it never left me stranded! I always somehow caught those problems before they left me stranded.

[SW03ES]

But they are reliable cars, if properly mantained. I can tell you this from personal experience with them, not just from things I've heard from other people.

But how likely is someone to find one that has been "properly maintained" since day one? Pretty unlikely, and if they do they'll have to pay for it. The difference between Lexus and BMW is that you can literally drive a Lexus (at least an LS) and never do any maintenance other than oil changes and it will run 200,000 miles and run them well providing the timing belt doesn't snap. That can be seen by 90's Lexus he just sold, 235,000 miles with an uncertain service history and the biggest issues are a clunky front suspension, a burned out LCD and a brittle dashboard. 14 years and 235,000 miles. Look at Blake's 95, 240,000 miles and 9 years with a very uncertain service history and I think his biggest complaint is some interior rattles. We have several members here with LS with over 200,000 miles going strong, and nothing radical has been done to them over time to guarantee that. You can't say a car is "reliable" when you have to replace all the components you mentioned as preventative action to keep it in running order. You love them and to you thats part of what makes them special, but most car owners don't want to have to deal with all that crap. They just want to drive the car and have it run.

[90LS400Lexus]

I do not think I gave my LS enough credit. It did have 235K miles and the engine and transmission were still in like new working order. Really amazing. It was the small annoying problems that were bothering me like SW03ES mentioned. The instrument panel had hardened due to the harsh southern sunshine, stopped up A/C evaporator, the LCD went (very quickly), as did the speedometer needle light and the front suspension clunks- yes, minor, but costly repairs. For 235K- I really should not have complained. I think some of the BMWs have issues, as all cars do. I have my troublesome (but abused) 82' BMW 733i sedan, but as mentioned, I have several family members with BMW's that are in perfect order and have been for a while, but one cousin has had some troubles with his 85' 633 BMW.

I guess I was comparing my Lexus to my old 93' Camry- which had nearly 220K when I sold it. It did not have the hardened dash like my LS did. It was also 100% squeak/rattle free. No other problems at all on the Camry, but it was a more "simple" car- not as much to go wrong.

[90LS400Lexus]

To update- a couple of you said I should get a 03-05 Corolla. One of my friends at work has a 2004 Corolla and today we went to lunch with some other friends. I was impressed that this Corolla did not have the interior "pops" that the 03' had that I tested last year with 11K. Hers has 17K and is totally quiet, even on rough roads. Ride quality was not bad either and the transmission shifted very smoothly- just like it did on the 03' I tested. Her mother was so impressed with it, that she has recently went out and purchased a 2005 Corolla. She got a good deal on it, because she paid for it in full with cash. She will only drive it on Saturdays (to the store and beauty shop) and on Sundays- to church. Her last car was a 1990 Buick that she bought brand new, that had a VERY LOW 22K miles on it when she traded it last month. She has owned the Corolla for a month and does not even have 200 miles on it yet. That car will be a good buy for someone a few years down the road.

I will keep everyone updated as to what I do actually purchase and if I will be free of those "annoyances" that my OLD LS had. :P

[1991LS400]

90LS400Lexus,

Instead of relying on everyone else's comments about other cars such as the Merc you were considering or anything else why don't you pick up a J.D. Power & Associates or Consumer Report article/magazine and look up some info on Lexus in comparison to those other car makes. Lexus tops the list. Consistently. What's surprising is that the 1st Gen LS's were typically the strongest brute force of LS's out compared to the new LS 430's but these new LS's are still topping the list in first place for mechanical reliability, long-term dependability, value of the car, and performance.

Keep your 1st Gen LS and take care of it. I will admit, I have dropped nearly $4,000 restoring my 91 LS 400 but it was damn well worth it, plus, it's my show car. I love her! She has 252,000 miles and she won't stop...can't stop...(well, she will one day but then I'll just rebuild the engine and keep her going!)

Why settle for 2nd best? Toyota and Lexus consistently tops the list in first place.

P.S. Good job about not purchasing the Mercedes. Who cares what those Merc heads say about Lexus. We go by the facts.

[90LS400Lexus]

Wow, this topic is a little old- I did not think it anyone was reading it any longer. :D

Thanks for the reply at any rate. However, I have sold the car already. I sold it a few weeks ago, to a young lady who is a pharmacy tech. She loves it. I often have to go to that particular pharmacy to pick up my grandparents medications, so I still get to see it almost daily. I really miss it, but I would not want it back now, because it looks like it is not seeing the same excellent care that I gave it. :( It looks like it has not been washed since I have sold it and it was extremely dirty and piled full of trash when I had to park beside of it when I had to go in the pharmacy. I usually go through the drive-thru, but did not at that time.

I have still not replaced the car with a later model car, but I did buy another classic car- which I need to stop doing. I now have three old cars- 15 year old car, 31 year old car and a 35 year old car. All are great, but I would like to have a newer car for a daily driver, instead of racking up miles on these cars. The 89 Pontiac I do not mind racking the miles on, but that car is so underpowered, I hate to drive it.

I think I will wait until spring before I make a purchase, but if I find a good deal, I may go ahead and purchase. I have been considering a 1992 Toyota Land Cruiser, but not sure yet. Thanks again.

[LexusLooker]

I have a client that has a new BMW 530i, I noticed it had a nail in the tire and showed her and her response was "Wow...will that give me a flat eventually?"

I think I ran into that woman a few days later. She got out of her new shiny 530i at a gas station. She was beautifully dressed in expensive looking clothes, big Texas hair and long red fingernails. She pulled up to the air pump to inflate a leaky tire - must have been the one with the nail in it. I saw her pull the hose from the pump, but it was the WATER hose, not the air hose. I keep kicking myself for not staying and watching. I can just see the reaction when she squeezed the handle on the hose...

[SW03ES]

Who knows, maybe she took an impromptu trip to Dallas lol

[90LS400Lexus]

That is halarious. Sad, but halarious!

I can just see the reaction when she squeezed the handle on the hose...

[akewlguy]

Diesel? Is this the reason you bought the MB.

[90LS400Lexus]

Wow, this topic is old, I did not realize anyone was still reading it. :)

No, actually, I passed on buying a Mercedes at this time. However, if I had of known then, what I know now about gasoline prices, I wish I had of bought a MB diesel or another 4-cylinder Honda or Toyota, instead of a Suburban with a gasoline engine that gets 13 MPG. <_< It holds 42 gallons, so if it is on "E", if gasoline is $2.49 per gallon - which it was the last time I bought gas for it, it would take about $104.00 to fill it up. Since I only drive it to work (for now), I rarely put over 150 miles per week on it, so I never let it go below 3/4 tank, so it is not that bad.

Since I did not update this topic, as you know I posted in another topic that the girl that bought my Lexus crashed it, but had it repaired. She drove it for about two weeks after that and she said something broke on the fan and she had that repaired. Then, about two months ago, she seen me and said the engine had "blown up" and said the engine was making a terrible knocking noise (I am assuming the lifters had gotten worse), but she was going to drive it until she could get it repaired. I lost touch with her, as she quit at the pharmacy she worked at where I got my grandparents medication. The last time I saw her- which was about a month ago- she was driving a 90s Dodge Neon. <_< I have not saw the Lexus since. Perhaps setting in her driveway broken? She told me she loved the car and would never sell it. I am guessing she is saving money for the repairs.

Diesel? Is this the reason you bought the MB.

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