Lexus Certified Pre-owned

nicksan · August 5, 2004

Yes, I am selling my 99 TL but locally. I live in NY.

It's all prepped to go. I already have some leads.

I understand you having a hard time choosing.

I went through the same thing with the 99 TL. I went for the TL because although I really wanted the ES300, it was too much.

I also own a MDX. After owning these Acuras for 1.5 years I've come to the conclusion that, yes they are nice cars, but borderline luxury.

Plastics are cheap, interior rattles a lot. Service is iffy...but then again it really depends where you take it I guess. They also have a tranny recall thing and lots of people are having tranny problems, maybe less for 99 TL owners with the 4 speed instead of the 5.

Plus mine already had 75k miles on it and was going to depreciate pretty quickly so I decided to get the low mileage ES300.

Comparing the 2...well you really can't. I would say that luxury wise, ES300 wins flat out. Fun factor? Depends but generally people say that the TL, because of its sportier style is more fun to drive. It's between a ES and a 3 series Bimmer.

The reason I went with the ES was because I always liked them. It rides smooth. It's got a great track record. Lexus just has a better ring to it.

That said, I love my MDX...I think that's a kick as* SUV...I never did like the RX300/330's. I've got Navi in that one...it's great.

PharmGuy · August 6, 2004

Hey Nick,

I've been semi-following your saga. And I'll add my 8 cents (adjusting for

inflatation these days). I purchased a CPO 2001 RX-300 in Oct 2003, but I had

a couple of encounters with a dealership which I decided NOT to purchase a

vehicle through. I had gone to my closest dealership, looking for info and even

took a couple out on test-rides. I had decided I definitely wanted a CPO,simply

because the few private sales looked questionable (mind you, it's a big purchase,

I wanted to feel more comfortable with a dealership vehicle). Unfortunately,

the dealership representative really didn't seem to care if I bought the

vehicle. He didn't have a level of knowledge or confidence about the vehicle.

I suppose it was my first time buying a Lexus, so I didn't have a history as

a customer. Sadly, my wife and I both said, NO----I just didn't feel like a

valued or interested customer.

The following week, I drove to an out-of-state dealer, and the reception was

totally the OPPOSITE. Good stock, very knowledgable sales personel, and

definitely not pushing (anyone that's ever had THAT pushy sales person--well

you know the clash of personalities). He gave me all the time, wanted both my

wife and me to test drive it, but more so, he listened and he knew why we

came to that dealership. Being taken seriously, if you are purchasing/or considering purchasing an expensive vehicle, should be step 1. When, we

got to an agreeable price, and signed the paperwork, I felt like they were

a Lexus class act---plain and simple.

So far, I definitely love the RX-300, good ride, dependable, and I know

I'll get something the day I trade in (coming out of a Pontiac, well, the trade-in

value was poor). I hope you get some satisfaction, and unfortunately not all

dealerships are superb. And, lastly--- be firm, it's a class-act vehicle, and I really

hope you get a warm response from Lexus headquarters.

PharmGuy

nicksan · August 6, 2004

Thanks Pharmguy,

That's what I should have done to "stick it to the man"...but that's where my lack of assertiveness comes in. There are days when I am a mean-as*, and others when I am Mr. Softy.

That day, I was Mr. Softy...it's almost like "gee...I hope they don't notice that I don't have enough money to buy a new one so I need a pre-owned..."...type of thinking instead of "D*amn...I'm spending $24k, I want some respect!".

The sales person was OK. He was ill (told me he's recovering from cancer...I think he was telling the truth cuz he didn't have any hair from the chemo) so he wasn't too energetic. He did tag along for the test drive but really knew nothing about the car. With the Internet it's so much easier to be more informed about a car than these sales people.

It's his manager that was a jerk. I could see it the moment I was introduced to him. Always smoking...even when dealing with me, the customer, I thought that was very rude and unprofessional. Smoke at your own time...

Then when it came to the nitty gritty...he became angry that I was pointing out all these imperfections. He was a a sport for a while then I guess he reached his threshold...

The salesperson was like "I guarantee you the car won't be here tomorrow"...and I was like "yeah', we'll see about that"...but he managed to make me stay for a while and they came back with the figure of $24k with CPO status, and being that this thing had Chromes, I pretty much had to take it on the spot, given that I finally got them to budge on a few things with the body work.

The business manager was nice too...

On delivery day, there was the sales manager fiasco. I wasn't going to cancel the deal b/c of his assinine behavior. But it's the aftercare that leaves something to be desired. These people won't call me back. You sign the sheet ad they give you the middle finger, almost.

Afraid to say there is no way to find out about this...I guess it's luck.

So next time I buy a Lexus, and I will, I will do a little more research...maybe get some referrals or something...

This forum is a BIG help believe me. I feel like a part of a family. If it wasn't for this forum, I might be going postal on these guys!!!

I'll keep you posted on how corporate Lexus handles this, if at all.

PharmGuy · August 7, 2004

Hey nick,

Good Luck with your vehicle and also, good luck with Lexus Corporate.

Stevie is giving assertive lessons?? If you get a chance ask him WHO brang

the bullhorn to the April Meet?? j/k j/k===Well, he really did and we used it!!

PharmGuy B)

nicksan · August 12, 2004

Got a call from the business manager who sold me the remote starter at the dealer. He will remove the current one and install a different model that comes with a LCD remote.

So it'll get done the same day the rest of the things get done.

As far as corporate Lexus is concerned, it's been more than a week now and no call back. I called them today and they said they are still looking at the case.

So it's been a frustrating experience on that end too. I'm hoping things would get straightened out eventually.

Haven't had time to drive the car too much. Eventually I'll get to that as well.

For now it sits there on the street most of the time...I tend to drive my SUV more since it's got more dents and I feel more comfortable driving it...plus they still need to fix all the stuff they promised to fix so...I only managed to get a appt. date 3 weeks later...so I'm waiting a couple of weeks already.

Frustrating is all I can say.

nicksan · August 16, 2004

For those of you interested (probably not many anymore!) I spoke to corporate Lexus "specialist".

He said basically the correct course of action would be to discuss all my issues with the service manager. (Tomorrow is my appt.)

He told me he had already relayed information regarding my complaints to the service manager so they would be aware.

He did say that any repairs done would soley depend on the service manager. So they will check everything out and decide accordingly.

Just to display the total lack of "checking" ability on my part at purchase time, I have discovered these additional issues:

-Wiper fluid not coming out from driver side.

-Cup holder rattles like crazy when opened

-Horn feels like it might have some problems

-Paint not matching between rear bumper and quarter panel

-Steering wheel makes squeeky sound

-Car sometimes idles rough...slightly though it may be

-armrest console missing rubber "feet"

-Interior lights dim pretty bad when using power windows.

Some maybe normal, others definitely not.

There was definitely body work done...(the whole quarter panel not matching bumper)

I guess they will decide what to fix...but I guess I better mention every little thing since now is the time to do it!

I told corporate I was a bit disappointed if this was representative of their "Certified Pre-owned" checking process...

Tomorrow will be the day...at least I'm getting a loaner car until the following morning...I hope it's something cool!!!

SW03ES · August 16, 2004

Good luck!

nicksan · August 17, 2004

Thanks! Probably need as much as I can!!!

I took the baby in.

Get this...the d*ckhead preowned manager already declined Corporate's request for the service dept. to check the vehicle (color mismatch and missing valet key) when it arrives there. I was there this morning and that was one of the first things I asked about...the person helping me check it out in the system and told me the pre-owned manager already declined the requests so there is nothing for them to do as far as those 2 items are concerned.

Doh!

Called corporate up...they weren't too happy with the outcome. They will get back to me after further investigation.

This guy is out to get me...he remembers me! (Who wouldn't?!?)

...and I got a Pontiac Grand AM as a loaner car...from Avis rentals...yo that car rocks...NOT! But I'm happy I got a manageable rental...there was a guy sitting next to me insisting he wait for a Lexus loaner...that he doesn't want to drive a piece of sh*t rentacar...gee...thanks for making me feel better!

The saga continues...

nicksan · August 18, 2004

Update:

Looks like I won't get the valet key. They are now saying that 2 master keys override the 1 master + 1 valet key rule, even though the dealer (and corporate on several occasion) told me I will get 1 of each plus whatever the previous owner left me. (second master key!)

Bunch of snakes...I've had enough...I'll get it on my own.

Color mismatch between rear bumper and quarter panel : they will likely make a decision tomorrow, although it's starting to look unlikely that they will do anything. The service manager will "acess" the situation and determine whether the work meets CPO standards...then he will contact the A-Hole pre-sales manager. OK, that's a winning combination right there!

...just like how the broken taillight, gash on the bumper, windshield chip, armrest console missing a part, muddy car on delivery date...met those standards.

Oh yes, I trust they will arrive at a honest conclusion on this one!!!

Looks like it'll be a trip to my body shop and $400...

They've had my car for 2 days now. (I gave them a long list of things to do!!!)

I'll know for sure tomorrow.

I guess it was worth a shot trying to save $400...ah well.

SW03ES · August 19, 2004

Thats terrible...good luck!

nicksan · August 19, 2004

Thanks SW...3rd day, no call from the dealer...so maybe they are trying to figure out what to do with the paint...

Maybe...just maybe...

cvep1994 · August 20, 2004

A word about CPO... I bought my first Lexus in 99 (a 96 ES 300 with 27k miles), purchased CPO for $19,999 (seriously)... its 2004, and i still drive that 96 ES.. now it has 91k miles... the dealer that services it (not same that i bought at) treats me very well. in fact one time we had issue with sunroof and parts were a bear, well.. wife was headed to beachhouse for the week, dealer said take the RX 300 for a week, "we'll see you when you get back"... now thats service... we buy a Lexus because of what we want and what it stands for, luxury, quality, durability, style and we choose CPO for service and professionalism... remember the Hyundai dealership is there for those on a budget, but we spend a few more $ to get the Lexus standard. P.S., i now have a CPO LX 470 with 38k miles and expect same experience! the old adage quality costs money is rings true.

SW03ES · August 20, 2004

BUT you would get that same service even if the cars weren't CPO. Thats simply because you have a good dealership, I have a good dealership too. Good dealerships don't care if the car is new, used, CPO, whatever they treat everyone the same. Poor Nick does NOT have a good dealership...

nicksan · August 20, 2004

SW is right.

I have lived in NY for all of my life and whenever I travel to other STATES (not countries) I feel like I am in another country.

Everybody is so different and depending on where I go there are very polite and easy going...which is the direct opposite of NY where everybody's got a hidden agenda.

So I think the same applies for Lexus dealers.

It's not like they send some people from Lexus to open up shop in NY. You got these native NY'ers trying to make a buck or two and when you combine that with nasty NY customers (like me!!!) then you got something ugly going on.

Going to dealers in upscale neighborhoods isn't a guarantee either. In fact they think you are rich so they will milk you...they'll be nice to you but they will over charge you.

That is life in NY.

I understand that the dealer also has to protect itself from nasty NY'er too...so it's a 2 way street really, and people like me get scr*wed.

I do sooooo much better outside of NY, mostly mentally, one has to wonder why I stay there...guess that's where the job and money is at.

See what I mean?

SW03ES · August 20, 2004

I know just how you feel lol.

nicksan · August 20, 2004

The reason why they have my car for so long is because they were waiting for the new ashtray to arrive...nothing more.

Oh well...

Unlisted · August 20, 2004

make sure both of the master keys can be used to program new keys in the future. I wasnt sure what year your car was. I think it is 2001 and up you need atleast one real master key to program any future keys. if that key is lost they must replace the computer in the car. Expensive. That is why 2 keys is important . Good Luck

SW03ES · August 20, 2004

Unlisted is right, definately put one of those keys in a safe place.

nicksan · August 26, 2004

OK, here is an update.

I just got a call from the dealer. They've had the car for 10 days now. The service manage took a look at the color mismatch and decided that it was bad enough that he is going to have it fixed! Yay!!!

I guess the call to Corporate Lexus helped a little bit...the guy who was working with me was willing to go that extra mile to negotiate with the service manager.

To summarize, the following items were done for my CPO:

-2 dings repaired

-windshield chip filled in

-rubber seal around moonroof replaced

-ashtray replaced due to rattling

-clock fixed

-interior noise fixed (supposidly that is...I'll see when I get the car back)

-bumper color mismatch fixed

-front bumper damage repaired and repainted

The only thing that didn't happen was the Valet key...

Oh well...hopefully the results will be pleasing when I get my car back, hopefully by this weekend.

jragosta · August 26, 2004

OK, here is an update.
I just got a call from the dealer. They've had the car for 10 days now. The service manage took a look at the color mismatch and decided that it was bad enough that he is going to have it fixed! Yay!!!

I guess the call to Corporate Lexus helped a little bit...the guy who was working with me was willing to go that extra mile to negotiate with the service manager.

To summarize, the following items were done for my CPO:

-2 dings repaired

-windshield chip filled in

-rubber seal around moonroof replaced

-ashtray replaced due to rattling

-clock fixed

-interior noise fixed (supposidly that is...I'll see when I get the car back)

-bumper color mismatch fixed

-front bumper damage repaired and repainted

The only thing that didn't happen was the Valet key...

Oh well...hopefully the results will be pleasing when I get my car back, hopefully by this weekend.

Good luck.

However, I'm pretty disappointed that there were that many problems on a CPO car. You're paying a good bit more for the car, so it should have been thoroughly inspected before they tried to deliver it to you. If there were that many flaws, it looks like someone didn't do the inspection properly.

nicksan · August 26, 2004

Exactly,

But like other things in life, I think it really depends on the quality of the particular dealer. I happen to be unlucky choosing Lexus of Massepequa.

You are right, some of the things should have been caught before they put the CPO on the lot. But I think what they do is collect stats like how many times they get a pain-in-the-rear customer like me.

My guess is that most customers usually drive the car off the lot without complaining. The only reason I pointed out the imperfections was because I have seen a lot of 2001's in the recent weeks and thought that this car wasn't up to that standard, but COULD BE with a little work...nothing major, just obvious ones like the front bumper gash, paint mismatch, interior rattling.

It's just bad business but they play the stats game...and their attitude is like chances are they are going to sell it eventually so why bother.

Again, I wouldn't lose faith in the CPO program...just this particular dealer. You just have to find a honest one...though that could be VERY difficult to do in NY.

nicksan · August 26, 2004

...and my disappointment actually is in the way I was treated by the pre-owned manager.

Sure I was disppointed by the lack of quality checks with this car, but it's now being addressed. I managed to squeeze in some extras too...so that's ok...thought it really was a pain in the rear to get things rolling.

The pre-owned manager treated me like trash on delivery-day. I mean he wasn't the nicest guy in the world on sale day but he got nasty when I started talking about the valet key.

That's really the individual...I'm not going to try to get that guy fired. He'll do that to himself if he continues to act that way.

In fact I don't care. Because I've already mentioned that dealership in this forum (and others) so I know people who read this will NEVER go to them. I know I will NEVER EVER go to them to buy my next Lexus. NO F'IN WAY!@!

And believe me, Corporate Lexus knows EVERYTHING that happened...and once I get that survey card in the mail, I'm going to trash them real nice...the salesperson sounded like it was very important that they get good "grades"...yeah and I'm thinking "where were you when your boss was being nasty?" He sure wasn't there on delivery day.

Bunch of f*ckers...

SW03ES · August 26, 2004

Congrats on getting all of that taken care of. Valet key's not that big a deal, if you want one you can get it delivered cut and programmed from www.lexus-parts.com for $50.

As for the quality of CPO cars I can definately attest to it being dependent on the dealer. Before I got my ES I was looking for a CPO 2000 LS400, we have 6 major dealerships within 40 miles here in DC. I looked at CPO cars at 4 of them. The best one went so far as to repaint the front bumper of EVERY CPO car to remove rock chips and such, replace the steering wheel in EVERY CPO car to impart a factory fresh appearance, replace the windshields on 40-50% of them, thoroughly detail them and replace the tires. They looked brand new, seriously. Other dealers do nothing, and allow body damage to go unrepaired.

It really depends on the dealer.

nicksan · August 26, 2004

SW,

Wow...at least I am now educated.

So if I buy CPO the next time around I will know what the deal is!

amf1932 · August 26, 2004

It really depends on the dealer.

When I traded in my '94ES last year the dealer put it up for sale in their pre-owned cars showroom. They couldn't sell this car as a CPO because of the year, but they did exactly as SW said. The car I might add was in beautiful condition except for some marks on the bumpers. Before it was put up for sale they repainted the bumpers, completely detailed the car, and changed all the fluids. The car looked so beautiful that I wanted to buy it back. :D