Tires For 2003 Es 300

[jimenter]

I am new to this forum. I am looking for 3 or 4 tires for my ES300. I have 22500 miles. 1 of the 4 tires has gone bald and upon bringing it to Sears, other 2 don't have much tread left. I was about to to Michelin MXV4s and a while back I saw some posts here and someone was pitching Toyo Tires. I wanted to hear from other Lexus 300 oweners their experience especially the ones who own 03 ES300.

The original tires from factory came with Toyo J33 Proxies. I wanted to change all 4 and use my spare tire which is also J33. However, if I go with any other make, I will have to buy all 4 new tires. Any comments, ideas would be appreciated.

BTW, I couldn't find the thread where the guy was pitching toyo proxies and don't have much time searching fir it.

Jim

[steviej]

I thought the J33s were recalled or replaced at no charge if the customer didn't like them. That goes back to posts in fall of 2003.

Anyway. This has been recently discussed.

here is a link.

Toyos on an 03 ES, from ES forum

try searching on Michelin.

steviej

[Lexusfreak]

Try getting the Toyo Proxes TPT's as replacements......I choose them over the Michelin MXV4's any day. The Toyo Proxes j33's are not a good tire, that I agree with & many folks have had lot's of problems with them. Keep us posted as to what your outcome is.

[jimenter]

Thanks Steve for the info. The link you sent however, doesn't bring to the discussion from Fall 03 about Toyo tires. If you would be kind enough to either send the link or show me how to. I try typing in search buit I can't get.

BTW, I called the dealership and tried to speak to my Service Rep. He wasn't in so I spoke to his assistant. He says he doesn't know of any such recall, etc. Howeve, sine it was end of the day, he will speak to Management and ge tback to me tomorrow.

Thanks in advance.

Jim

[jimenter]

Thanks, Lexusfreak for your input. Now, tell me, why Toyo J33 which are also Proxies are not as good as Toyo TPTs? Can you also send me a link to where I can read up about these? I am so glad I posted the message because, I thought when you were pitching Toyo Proxies, I thought it meant the OEM tires that came from the factory (J33s). So, I decided to go and buy 3 tires and use the Spare tire as the 4th tire.

Thanks

Jim

[aesanchez1]

My ES300 came with Toyo tires (not sure which model). At 15k miles, a non-Lexus service shop told me I needed new tires. I finally had them replaced with Michelins at 20k miles when and they had 2/32 tread. When I bought the car, I questioned the dealer about the Toyo tires and was told they were as good as the Michelins. I regret not making them change the tires when I bought the car. I would not purchase another pair of Toyo tires. I have always used Michelin tires for the last 10 years and have generally gotten 40k miles on each them. I am very unhappy with Lexus for putting such a cheap tire on this car. The customer service representative for Lexus (not the dealer) even said to me that 15k miles was not considered unusual on a tire. That is absurd. Between the tires and the problems with the brake pads (2x replaced, the rotors replaced once) I am questioning what type of parts Lexus is putting on their cars.

[SW03ES]

It depends on the tires.

No Lexus comes with the Toyo Proxes TPT radials. The Toyos the ES comes with are Toyo Proxes summer tires (J33). Summer tires, whatever the brand, will always wear out faster than all season tires. Its unfair to compare a summer Toyo with an all season Michelin when it comes to treadwear. The Proxes TPT are an all season radial with higher treadwear ratings than the Michelin MXV4.

You can't go wrong with the MXV4s they've proven themselves a good tire time and time again. The question is are they worth the cost. Many shops ask over $200 a tire for the MXV4s mounted and balanced, thats just insane whereas the Proxes can be had for $100-$130 a tire. Toyo has been the quality award winner something like 5 times in a row, and the Proxes TPT has been cited as their flagship, highest quality tire. I'm 100% satsified with mine, the tires made all the difference in the car. They're great looking tires too. Michelin is #2 in the quality ranking and the MXV4 isn't even on the chart.

15,000 miles is not unusual wear for a set of summer tires. The TPTs have a 60,000 mile treadwear warranty. Fact of the matter is, stock tires just suck. Owners of cars from all manufacturers complain about crappy stock tires. Michelin makes cheap tires with no treadwear warranty also, doesn't mean their higher line warrantied tires are bad tires. I've never had a car that came with decent tires, I always run the stock tires for 15-20k miles and replace them with good tires.

The reason for your dissatisfaction is you're comparing your experience with the stock ES Toyo summer tires with all season Michelin tires. Thats like buying an SUV after owning a Corolla and complaining about the gas mileage difference. Apples and oranges.

[jimenter]

After speaking with my Service Rep. at the dealership I have bought 3 cars (all Lexis Es 300), they are going to split 50/50. They will pay for 2 tires and I will for 2 tires since the mileage has gine upto 23000. They had programs where it was 10K or thereabours, they would change all.

Upwards upto 20K was different formula. They made expection since I been their customer for a while. So I have choice of Bridgestone or MXV4+. I am going to go for MXV4+ $163 each plius 6% tax. I will also get wheel alignment. I asked about the 5th tire (spare), he said, I will have to keep that. I was busy with my work so didn;t get to talk much. I might hav Toyo take that tire (brand new) and replace it with something else. What are your thoughts. Which tires should I go for?

Choice is limited Bridgestone or Michelins.

Thanks

Jim

[SW03ES]

Michelins no question. The Bridgestones that come on the ES (which I'm sure those are) are horrible tires.

[jimenter]

Thanks SW03Es for timely response. I was going to go with Michelin MXV4+ if I hadn't seen any response (to err on the side of caution). I think the service rep. was pushing for Bridgestone because they have to pay for 2 but now they will have to pay for MXV4+ ($162 or $163). The same tires when I was shopping he told me was $152. When I questioned him about that, he said the prices do change on tires like fuel prices. I didn't want to cry for $10 per tire especially if they are paying for 2. When I go there Sat. I will speak to him in person to see if he can replace the spare tire also as it is brand new and their policy he said ws change the tire upto 10K. This one has 0 K.

Thanks

Jim

[SW03ES]

The Bridgestone is a crappy tire, thats what I had on mine until last month when I got the Toyo TPTs. Loud, hard, low treadwear, horrible in the rain. Go to www.tirerack.com and look at the reviews of the MXV4 and the Potenza RE92 (thats what you'd get), its no contest. Definately get the Michelins.

Stick to your guns about the spare, it should be covered under the warranty without question. The dealer isn't paying for the tires so don't let them play that game, Lexus is paying the dealer for them, thats how warranty works. They're selling you 4 tires, you and Lexus are just splitting the cost.

[jimenter]

Thanks SW03Es. After putting it off for a few weeks. I kept my appot. today and brought the car to the dealership. I didn't see your post until now. However, I asked him to change the spare as well as it has 0 miles on it. He called the guy in parts and he said he will give me credit $116.30 for the toyo sitting in the trunk and charge me the diff $46 for the exchange to Michelin MXV4+. I agreeed. So I am going to get 5 new tires. He was going to charge me for Wheel Alignment which he said he will waive now since I am losing on the spare tire. I also am getting the oil change. I have brand new 2004 Rx330 loaner from them. The car will be ready by Monday. So, I am paying for 2 tires plus diff and getting 5 new MXV+.

I could feel the difference in drving a new car with 4 new tires (Rx330) and felt what I have been putting up with.

The RX330 has Goodyear V rates tires on it. I had Goodyear on my 1999 ES 300and I think I was preety happy with it. But I think Michelins would be even better.

Will keep you posted once I have gotten my car back from Service.

Thanks

Jim

[Lexusfreak]

SW, are you saying your not happy with your Proxes TPT's?? or were you refering to your previous Bridgestones? & jim, I choose the Toyo's over the Michelins for a number of reasons. I've had previous cars with the MXV4's & not overly impressed with the wet weather performance (especially hard down pours), snow traction was far better with the Toyo's over the MXV4's, the Toyo's are roughly 30 - 40% less expensive with the same treadwear warranty, traction & temperature rating. If you read back on the tire forums here (and also in the ES forums) I have recommended & suggested the Toyo's pretty much all the time! Four of my co-workers have them (they all come to me for automotive advice including tires), & in the next week or so I will also be getting a set of them for my wife's 2003 Ford Focus ZX5 (her original tires are Firestone Firehawk GTA-02's are even worse than the Bridgestone Potenza RE 92's that I've also had on my previous Maxima & they were aweful!). I've even contacted a tire expert that writes for the largest newspaper in Canada (The Toronto Star) & his advice was to go with the Toyo's over the Michelins! The Michelins aren't a bad choice at all, however with some research you will find that the Toyo's are by far the better value with better overall performance for a much cheaper price! What's not to like? B) There are a few reviews for the Toyo at www.tiretrends.com Put the exact size of the tire you need in on the right side of the screen & select the Toyo's for the reviews at the bottom of the screen. You can also check out www.toyo.com or www.toyocanada.com Good luck!

P.S. I would buy them again in a heartbeat! :)

[Lexusfreak]

Sw, disregard my question to you if you were happy with your Toyo's......I read over your comments but I caught them this time around B) ;)

[SW03ES]

No, love the Toyos! Hated the Bridgestones ;)

[Lexusfreak]

Excellent sw, same here! :D B)

[jimenter]

It has been almost 3 weeks, I got the new tires (MXV4+) installed on my ES 300. They are performing satisfactorily.

As far as going for Toyo Proxies, I would have gone for them if that was choice at the dealership. I wasn't necessarily happy to shell out $162.86 plus taxes for these tires if I could have gotten Proxies.

The dealer paid for 2 and charged me for 2 plus I got the spare changed also so I paid the difference for that.

[Lexusfreak]

That's not a bad deal jim.......I wonder if you insisted on the TPT's what the dealership would have said? I say that because it's a better tire for almost half the price so both you & the dealer would have saved a few bucks......but the Michelin is a fairly decent tire.

[SW03ES]

They would have refused. The tire may be cheaper but it would cost the dealer more as Lexus definately has some sort of deal in place for a really low wholesale price on the tires the cars come with such as the Michelins he got. My guess is they only pay $10-15 a tire or so, and they pay way less for them on the assembly line, a couple bucks a peice. The dealer would have lost money on the Toyos.

The tires that come OEM on cars are always the cheapest for the car company to buy, thats why they use them.

[Lexusfreak]

Good point sw. :)

[jimenter]

Interesting to know this SW. Well, I was told that they do not offer Toyos anymore (even the ones, they were offering me originally J33s). I think the price was $132 or $142 because of the the problems they have been having. The fact that they even took the brand new spare as a "trade", they were doing me a favor because the tire guy told my service rep. they are sitting on 12 of them and they stopped selling.

But, even before I got the wind of recall or changing tires Toyos J33s on this forum, when I was shopping for tires, my service rep. told me they do not make much money on tires, they just do it as a convininece for the customers.

I am also surprised to hear that car dealerships on purpose ask for the cheapest tires to be installed on a band new car and that too, a luxary car.

Jim

[SW03ES]

Well its not the dealerships its the car company itself. They make the decisions what comes on the car. The dealer stocks what they can get the best deal on which is what comes on the car through Lexus. The service rep was probably right, they don't make a lot of money on tires because they don't sell a lot of tires, but theres a significant markup on each tire.