Tire Dillema Continues...

Lexusfreak · September 28, 2005

There's more to ride quality than the stiffness of the sidewall. The aggressive tread pattern has got to create more noise than a sedate touring tread pattern, thats just common sense.

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I agree there is much more to ride quality than just the stiffness of the sidewall. I'll take a more aggressive tread pattern personally if that means I have optimum traction in bad weather conditions......a 'sedate' touring tread pattern won't give that as well. Like I've said many times before about any tire......they haven't yet invented the perfect tire, no matter what (whether it's ride quality, tread life, road noise, lack of an aggressive tread pattern etc, etc etc...) there will always be compromises.....dosen't matter how inexpensive or expensive a tire is, one will have to make their own personal choices depending on various factors that's important to the driver of that vehicle.........that too is common sense. B) ;)

:cheers:

Lexusfreak · September 28, 2005

I'm with you. I eventually decided on the LSVs for several reasons:
1. The reviews I've seen say that the LSVs are much quieter than the MXV4s.

2. The dealer that I prefer (who I trust completely) has both and he says that the LXV is a better tire, particularly with respect to ride comfort and noise level.

3. While price wasn't a major factor, the LXVs were about $15 per tire lower than the MXV4s.

My LXVs will be here tomorrow. I'll let you know how they feel.

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Good luck with your choice jragosta, those should serve you well. B)

:cheers:

SW03ES · September 28, 2005

1. The reviews I've seen say that the LSVs are much quieter than the MXV4s.

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I don't see how that can be the case. The MXV4s are about as quiet a tire as I've ever experienced and are almost silent on all roadway surfaces and at all speeds. I'd buy that the LS-Vs are as quiet, but I think when you get down to this level of refinement from a touring tire you get about as quiet as modern tires will get.

Some of the reviews on places like TireRack say things like they're quieter than the MXV4s I've had before etc, but you have to remember they're comparing old worn out tires to new tires, and for some reason people who get the MXV4s OEM aren't as happy with them as those that get them aftermarket. Seems to be the case with most tires for whatever reason...

One advantage the LS-Vs may have over the MXV4s is that they're a newer tire with Bridgestone's UNI-Q or something like that tread design that renews the design characteristics of the tire as it wears supposedly keeping them from getting louder and loosing traction as they wear, as tires always do. So comparing LS-Vs to MXV4s at say 20,000 miles the LS-Vs may be quieter, but I'm sure they're not brand new.

I think you're in pretty good shape whichever of these tires you choose.

I agree there is much more to ride quality than just the stiffness of the sidewall. I'll take a more aggressive tread pattern personally if that means I have optimum traction in bad weather conditions......a 'sedate' touring tread pattern won't give that as well. Like I've said many times before about any tire......they haven't yet invented the perfect tire, no matter what (whether it's ride quality, tread life, road noise, lack of an aggressive tread pattern etc, etc etc...) there will always be compromises.....dosen't matter how inexpensive or expensive a tire is, one will have to make their own personal choices depending on various factors that's important to the driver of that vehicle.........that too is common sense.

I agree with that too, but putting racing tires on a Buick doesn't make it a racecar. Certain cars just plain cannot benefit from the attributes of many tires because they aren't designed to. With the sophisticated traction control systems and FWD of the ES I doubt you'll see much benefit to the extra traction of the Falkens. If you see no benefit, then its not worth the tradeoff in ride quality and road noise.

jragosta · September 28, 2005

1. The reviews I've seen say that the LSVs are much quieter than the MXV4s.

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I don't see how that can be the case. The MXV4s are about as quiet a tire as I've ever experienced and are almost silent on all roadway surfaces and at all speeds. I'd buy that the LS-Vs are as quiet, but I think when you get down to this level of refinement from a touring tire you get about as quiet as modern tires will get.

Some of the reviews on places like TireRack say things like they're quieter than the MXV4s I've had before etc, but you have to remember they're comparing old worn out tires to new tires, and for some reason people who get the MXV4s OEM aren't as happy with them as those that get them aftermarket. Seems to be the case with most tires for whatever reason...

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Actually, I'm comparing the reviews for new tires. One place rated the LSVs at 4.3 (out of 5) for quietness compared to 3.8 for the MX4s. Another had the LSVs at 10 (out of 10) for quietness, but had the Michelins at 9.

Of course, YMMV, but when all the reviews say the LSVs are quieter, there's probably some element of truth.

SW03ES · September 28, 2005

Eh I still don't buy it, I really don't see how a tire can really be appriciably quieter than these are...

Another thing to keep in mind is there are probably a lot more survey respondants for the MXV4s than the LS-Vs, whenever you increase the size of the respondant pool the results always regress towards the mean...

I'd like to check out these reviews...

Lexusfreak · September 28, 2005

I agree with that too, but putting racing tires on a Buick doesn't make it a racecar. Certain cars just plain cannot benefit from the attributes of many tires because they aren't designed to. With the sophisticated traction control systems and FWD of the ES I doubt you'll see much benefit to the extra traction of the Falkens. If you see no benefit, then its not worth the tradeoff in ride quality and road noise.

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The Falken 512's are not even close to being a 'racing' tires sw, but a performance all season.....huge difference. ;)

http://www.falkentire.com/tires_512.htm

Regardless, both the Falken & MXV4's are rated for 60,000 miles.

As I mentioned however, the Falkens come second for me now that the Triple Treads are on the scene.

http://www.goodyearassurance.com/

I've owned the MXV4's before & was not overwhelmed in the least of the tires overall performance. To each their own.....Perhaps it's possible that we disagree with the performance of our respected tires simply because we own different generations of the ES & they are simply different whether it be of the weight differences or what have you.

Your not a fan of the Toyo TPT's but I have been quite happy with them & so was Doug (Lexusk8) as we both own the 2001 (and several others have the TPT's between the 92 - 01 model years). Let's see what our thoughts are 4 - 6 months from now.......should be telling. :)

:cheers:

98es · September 28, 2005

I've got the Toyo Proxes TPT's on my '98. I was extremely happy with them soon after I got them. Now, after about 30k on them, they are terrible. The ride has dramatically detiorated since they were new. I think one of the back one's has a lump in it, i haven't had time to get it checked out yet though. They seem to be wearing really fast too. I'll have to be replacing them pretty soon. Our '02 has the MXV4's on it. They seem to be really good tires, but I'm not sure if they'd be good on my '98. I'm still leaning toward the MXV4 on replacements though(for the '98)... or now I'm hearing everyone talk about LSV's, so who knows!? just my opinion... i would love to hear what other 97-01 es owners are riding on.

Lexusfreak · September 28, 2005

i would love to hear what other 97-01 es owners are riding on.

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Same here actually. B) :)

:cheers:

steviej · September 29, 2005

Your not a fan of the Toyo TPT's but I have been quite happy with them & so was Doug (Lexusk8) as we both own the 2001 (and several others have the TPT's between the 92 - 01 model years). Let's see what our thoughts are 4 - 6 months from now.......should be telling. :)

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I think you will find that lexusk8 is riding on LS-V's now.

steviej

ArmyofOne · September 29, 2005

There's more to ride quality than the stiffness of the sidewall. The aggressive tread pattern has got to create more noise than a sedate touring tread pattern, thats just common sense.

←

I agree there is much more to ride quality than just the stiffness of the sidewall. I'll take a more aggressive tread pattern personally if that means I have optimum traction in bad weather conditions......a 'sedate' touring tread pattern won't give that as well. Like I've said many times before about any tire......they haven't yet invented the perfect tire, no matter what (whether it's ride quality, tread life, road noise, lack of an aggressive tread pattern etc, etc etc...) there will always be compromises.....dosen't matter how inexpensive or expensive a tire is, one will have to make their own personal choices depending on various factors that's important to the driver of that vehicle.........that too is common sense. B) ;)

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actually steve, you are wrong about the tread pattern bieng noisy...near as i could tell they were the quietest tire i have ever had on any vehcile. not a lick of road noise, ever. i do have a set of Bfgoodriches on the chrysler right now that are agressive, and thye are royal pieces of *BLEEP* in the roadnoise department. but the falkens were the quietest tire i have ever had, by far. try them sometime, ill bet you wont be disappointed... B)

i tell ya what, ill have an LS400 once i get settled in at my base. ill only be 8-10 hours away, ill drive down and you can drive the car. cause you can rest assured shortly after i get it, it will have a brand new set of Falken Zeix ZE512's.

Lexusfreak · September 29, 2005

I think you will find that lexusk8 is riding on LS-V's now.
steviej

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I beleive you are correct steviej! :)

:cheers:

Lexusfreak · September 29, 2005

There's more to ride quality than the stiffness of the sidewall. The aggressive tread pattern has got to create more noise than a sedate touring tread pattern, thats just common sense.

←

I agree there is much more to ride quality than just the stiffness of the sidewall. I'll take a more aggressive tread pattern personally if that means I have optimum traction in bad weather conditions......a 'sedate' touring tread pattern won't give that as well. Like I've said many times before about any tire......they haven't yet invented the perfect tire, no matter what (whether it's ride quality, tread life, road noise, lack of an aggressive tread pattern etc, etc etc...) there will always be compromises.....dosen't matter how inexpensive or expensive a tire is, one will have to make their own personal choices depending on various factors that's important to the driver of that vehicle.........that too is common sense. B) ;)

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actually steve, you are wrong about the tread pattern bieng noisy...near as i could tell they were the quietest tire i have ever had on any vehcile. not a lick of road noise, ever. i do have a set of Bfgoodriches on the chrysler right now that are agressive, and thye are royal pieces of *BLEEP* in the roadnoise department. but the falkens were the quietest tire i have ever had, by far. try them sometime, ill bet you wont be disappointed... B)

i tell ya what, ill have an LS400 once i get settled in at my base. ill only be 8-10 hours away, ill drive down and you can drive the car. cause you can rest assured shortly after i get it, it will have a brand new set of Falken Zeix ZE512's.

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Yup, army was quite happy when he put the Falken's on his ES, I concur & so do 3 of my buddies who have them on their respective rides, and my wife. ;)

Only complaint has been with the 55 & 50 rated at only 30,000 miles. :)

:cheers:

jragosta · September 30, 2005

I just picked up my car with new Bridgestone Turanza LSV tires. They're much, much quieter than the stock tires - I should have replaced them a long time ago.

Why in the world doesn't Lexus put good tires on in the first place? I guess it goes along with their not caring if their cars shift properly.

Lexusfreak · September 30, 2005

Why in the world doesn't Lexus put good tires on in the first place? I guess it goes along with their not caring if their cars shift properly.

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I've been asking that for years about pretty much ALL the automakers, not just Lexus. :chairshot: It's pathetic some of the OE tires they put on brand new vehicles........I'll put it this way......they (the Automakers & Tire makers) don't have safety as a top priority when equipping new vehicles! :whistles: :censored: :chairshot:

:cheers:

ArmyofOne · October 1, 2005

There's more to ride quality than the stiffness of the sidewall. The aggressive tread pattern has got to create more noise than a sedate touring tread pattern, thats just common sense.

←

I agree there is much more to ride quality than just the stiffness of the sidewall. I'll take a more aggressive tread pattern personally if that means I have optimum traction in bad weather conditions......a 'sedate' touring tread pattern won't give that as well. Like I've said many times before about any tire......they haven't yet invented the perfect tire, no matter what (whether it's ride quality, tread life, road noise, lack of an aggressive tread pattern etc, etc etc...) there will always be compromises.....dosen't matter how inexpensive or expensive a tire is, one will have to make their own personal choices depending on various factors that's important to the driver of that vehicle.........that too is common sense. B) ;)

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actually steve, you are wrong about the tread pattern bieng noisy...near as i could tell they were the quietest tire i have ever had on any vehcile. not a lick of road noise, ever. i do have a set of Bfgoodriches on the chrysler right now that are agressive, and thye are royal pieces of *BLEEP* in the roadnoise department. but the falkens were the quietest tire i have ever had, by far. try them sometime, ill bet you wont be disappointed... B)

i tell ya what, ill have an LS400 once i get settled in at my base. ill only be 8-10 hours away, ill drive down and you can drive the car. cause you can rest assured shortly after i get it, it will have a brand new set of Falken Zeix ZE512's.

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Yup, army was quite happy when he put the Falken's on his ES, I concur & so do 3 of my buddies who have them on their respective rides, and my wife. ;)

Only complaint has been with the 55 & 50 rated at only 30,000 miles. :)

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Happy? i was tickled pink LOL.

and even with a 30K rating, they are cheap enoughyou can replace them that often and still not spend more than on any other tire.

Lexusfreak · October 1, 2005

Happy? i was tickled pink LOL.
and even with a 30K rating, they are cheap enoughyou can replace them that often and still not spend more than on any other tire.

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Your right.......2 set's of Falkens (for a total of 60,000+ miles) would equal many other brands single set's of other pricer tires. ;) Although I have reason to beleive that we will get more than 30k miles out of my wifes Falkens (205 50 16), based on her driving style & consistant tire maintenance which is very good news! :)

:cheers:

SW03ES · October 1, 2005

I've got the Toyo Proxes TPT's on my '98. I was extremely happy with them soon after I got them. Now, after about 30k on them, they are terrible. The ride has dramatically detiorated since they were new. I think one of the back one's has a lump in it, i haven't had time to get it checked out yet though. They seem to be wearing really fast too. I'll have to be replacing them pretty soon. Our '02 has the MXV4's on it. They seem to be really good tires, but I'm not sure if they'd be good on my '98. I'm still leaning toward the MXV4 on replacements though(for the '98)... or now I'm hearing everyone talk about LSV's, so who knows!? just my opinion... i would love to hear what other 97-01 es owners are riding on.

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That was my problem. I was happy with them for a while but as they got past 20k or so they became UNBEARABLE. They got this terrible groan at low speeds, especially when braking. Once it started to snow forget about it, they were a total disaster.

The Falken 512's are not even close to being a 'racing' tires sw, but a performance all season.....huge difference.

Racing tires no, but they're put low profile on Civics and VWs as sporty tires. I'm sorry, but I'm just not going to put anything on my Lexus or reccomend to anyone else that they put anything on their Lexus that they use on sooped up Civic or a Ford Focus. They're just totally different kinds of tires for totally different kinds of cars.

Yup, army was quite happy when he put the Falken's on his ES, I concur & so do 3 of my buddies who have them on their respective rides, and my wife.

But your wife drives a Ford Focus. Totally different type of car. I have buddies that drive SUVs, but I don't ask them for tire reccomendations for my Lexus.

actually steve, you are wrong about the tread pattern bieng noisy...near as i could tell they were the quietest tire i have ever had on any vehcile. not a lick of road noise, ever. i do have a set of Bfgoodriches on the chrysler right now that are agressive, and thye are royal pieces of *BLEEP* in the roadnoise department. but the falkens were the quietest tire i have ever had, by far. try them sometime, ill bet you wont be disappointed...

But, you never had any decent tires on the car to compare them too. If I remember correctly the tires you had on the car were falling apart, of course pretty much ANYTHING is going to seem smoother and quieter than that.

I'm not denying the Falken's are good tires, I just really don't think they're well suited to the Lexus. Focuses, Civics, Nissan Maximas, maybe GS's, IS's, and SC's but not something like an ES or an LS.

I just picked up my car with new Bridgestone Turanza LSV tires. They're much, much quieter than the stock tires - I should have replaced them a long time ago.

I felt the same way when I replaced the Bridgestone RE92s and then again when I replaced the TPTs. I've learned, first thing I do when I get a new car is research the OEM tires and if they seem inferior, replace them.

I think you will find that lexusk8 is riding on LS-V's now.

Do you know how he likes them compared to his TPTs?

Don't get me wrong, the TPT is an okay tire, just in my experience it didn't wind up being any higher quality than the Potenza RE92s that came on the car. Just not refined enough for the Lexus.

Lexusfreak · October 1, 2005

Racing tires no, but they're put low profile on Civics and VWs as sporty tires. I'm sorry, but I'm just not going to put anything on my Lexus or reccomend to anyone else that they put anything on their Lexus that they use on sooped up Civic or a Ford Focus. They're just totally different kinds of tires for totally different kinds of cars.

The Falkens come in a wide variety of 'profiles' from as low as 35, all the way up to 65 series. Nothing sooped up with the Focus.....it's a leased vehicle so it's 100% stock with factory recommended stock size & speed rating. It covers a wide range for many different vehicles & that's why they are a popular recommendation.

Most of my recommendations are based on stock size & speed ratings. Although going from a V speed rating to an H in a vehicle like an ES as an example won't be a huge deal. I won't go lower than 1 speed rating.

But your wife drives a Ford Focus. Totally different type of car. I have buddies that drive SUVs, but I don't ask them for tire reccomendations for my Lexus.

So? When I suggest a tire for someones vehicle (car or SUV) one of my questions is what are you looking for in a tire such as all season, summer, long tread life, wet & winter weather performance among others. Based on the answers & info they provide me enables me to create a reasonable 'short list' (not a perfect one) of possible tires to give consideration to which can eliminate the obvious poor tires that are also available in that size, which makes choices a little easier (and saves time) for many members that are not sure what they should or shouldn't consider.

Many folks are also on as budget, have a certain price point they can afford (I get e-mails all the time saying I have $XXX number of dollars to spend on a set of new tires........what do you recommend for that money). Overall value is important to many people. Why does Toyota sell over 400,000 Camrys a year? Overall cost & value for the money are a big factor on that equation.

They think why do I need a Lexus ES 330 when they can't justify the extra cost & when a base V6 LE (or 4 cyl) camry will suit their needs just fine & still be under the Toyota umbrella? The money saved to some feel that, that buys alot of set's of Michelin or Falken (or any other brand) tires down the road. ;)

I'm not telling them that's what they have to put on their vehicles, they are merely suggestions. I have received many more 'thank you's than disappointing comments all things considered so I feel I must doing something right. :) One can't please everyone all the time.

Obviously a Focus & a Lexus are 2 different 'animals' if you will....I understand that, but that's why I usually recommend several possibilities and let that person make up his or her mind. Some vehicles have weird OE sizes which only 1 or 2 tire choices are available (including the lousy tire that came factory equipped). One has to work with what they have if that person wants to replace with the same size again or a possible upgrade to another size with more choices.

I'm not denying the Falken's are good tires, I just really don't think they're well suited to the Lexus. Focuses, Civics, Nissan Maximas, maybe GS's, IS's, and SC's but not something like an ES or an LS.

Fair enough, thats your opinion & I respect that. But for those that are willing to consider the Falken as an example & the tire is available in the correct size & speed rating, what's wrong with that? :huh:

Several members do have them on their ES or LS and are pleased with their performance. I also think the Consumer Reports test I have spoken of in the past (which granted is considered old now as newer tires have since come to market) has been fair, credible & people take that into consideration & feel it's important. I'd like the current & up to date info on that however, but haven't tracked that down yet......I'm workin on it. ;) One shouldn't take the CR stuff necessarily as 'gospel' but simply a tool when considering choices.

I just picked up my car with new Bridgestone Turanza LSV tires. They're much, much quieter than the stock tires - I should have replaced them a long time ago.

You'll be pleased I'm sure with your selection jragosta. :)

I felt the same way when I replaced the Bridgestone RE92s and then again when I replaced the TPTs. I've learned, first thing I do when I get a new car is research the OEM tires and if they seem inferior, replace them.

Almost all OE tires are inferior, you mentioned that yourself even with your tires (comparing the OE supplied MXV4's to 'aftermarket' MXV4's). It's too bad there is a difference, what would be intresting to know is why?

I do the same thing as well now & research the OEM tires (especially the OE size & speed ratings). In addition, I go one step behond that & if a tire I am considering isn't available as a replacement in a specific size, I contact the tire maker to find out if they will offer it down the road.....you would be pleasantly suprised (for the most part......some do say no or no plans at this time) that they will in fact offer additional sizes say within a year or so for many new & redesigned vehicles or if demand is high, many current models. B)

I think you will find that lexusk8 is riding on LS-V's now.

Do you know how he likes them compared to his TPTs?

From what I have heard thus far, Doug has been quite happy with his LS-V's. B)

:cheers:

ArmyofOne · October 1, 2005

Yes steve, i did only have one set fo tires ont hat car, but i have had many other tires on other cars. thats what i was referring it to.

and you know what, i liked themso much that i took the chrysler down to discount tire today and purchased another set for that car. the Concorde is in the same class of car as an ES330. not that theres any competition.

oh, and my grandmother has them on her avalon. and she loves them.

they come in a variety of sidewall sizes...big difference between this:

and this:

just food for thought, i cant MAKE you buy them, but they are an excellent tire all around. :)

Lexusfreak · October 2, 2005

Good for you Army! Enjoy! B) :D I'd put them on my grandmothers car too without hesitation. ;)

:cheers:

ArmyofOne · October 2, 2005

Good for you Army! Enjoy! B) :D I'd put them on my grandmothers car too without hesitation. ;)

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I only wish they made them big enough for the F150! it needed new tiers worse than the concorde. My mom had some BF Goodriches put on while i was gone that are just HORRIBLE. so i went down today and said "I'm getting you a set fo real tires for your birthday"

guess what? for 4 225/55ZR-17 97W, i paid $395.77 out the door. not bad eh? these are the 420 treadwear rating too!

steviej · October 2, 2005

That was my problem. I was happy with them for a while but as they got past 20k or so they became UNBEARABLE. They got this terrible groan at low speeds, especially when braking.

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I suspect it may be a Toyo characteristic. My FZ4s have been doing the same thing for the last 2k miles. I have just over 20k on them now, they just came off the car and I seriously doubt they will be going back on in the spring.

I must admit, though, this thread is fun to follow. You each regard and defend your choice of tire as one would defend their home team. The bottom line is that there is no universal best tire, if there was we all would be riding on it.

Each person is going to have their likes and dislikes and each person is going to be more or less sensitive to noises at different frequencies and dbs. Each person is different as each tire is different.

with that said, please, continue your discussions. It is fun to read.

steviej

Lexusfreak · October 2, 2005

I must admit, though, this thread is fun to follow. You each regard and defend your choice of tire as one would defend their home team. The bottom line is that there is no universal best tire, if there was we all would be riding on it.

Agreed! I've been saying that for a while now.......& please do inform me if once the perfect tire is finally available.

Glad your enjoying the thread steviej, we are here to entertain. :D ;) Were staying on topic so yes a good.......if very long thread. :)

Each person is going to have their likes and dislikes and each person is going to be more or less sensitive to noises at different frequencies and dbs. Each person is different as each tire is different.
with that said, please, continue your discussions. It is fun to read.

steviej

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I'm out of stuff to talk about right now however..........sw, you have anymore? lol :ph34r: B) :lol:

:cheers:

spatel0169 · October 2, 2005

I'm quite happy overall with my TPT's on my 01 ES as well. They are starting to show wear however (evenly as the alignment, tire pressure & rotations have all been done on time). The Goodyear Triple Treads is what I will replace them with because they are rated better in the snow & have a longer tread life. B)

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LexusFreak, are you saying you will go to T rated Goodyear TripleTreads next. I am nearing a replacement soon and am very tempted to go T rated Goodyear Tripletreads but have been hesitating, since most gurus have recomended not going 2 ratings below.

Question to all : If I don't expect to go above 90mph at any time can I go Goodyear Tripletreads. Snow/wet traction and smoothness/quietness are 2 highest requirements on my list, followed by warranty, and these seem have them best (as per tirerack.com). I currently have Goodyear Comfordtreads on my minivan and am extremely happy with them. But then I may be comparing apples to watermelons!

cheers

SW03ES · October 2, 2005

LOL, I know. LF and I can go a few rounds about tires can't we? LOL. Its all in good fun though.

Watch your back LF ;)

I also think the Consumer Reports test I have spoken of in the past (which granted is considered old now as newer tires have since come to market) has been fair, credible & people take that into consideration & feel it's important. I'd like the current & up to date info on that however, but haven't tracked that down yet......I'm workin on it. One shouldn't take the CR stuff necessarily as 'gospel' but simply a tool when considering choices.

I recall that test, if I recall correctly it compared many tires, none of which I'd say were suited towards a car like the ES.

Almost all OE tires are inferior, you mentioned that yourself even with your tires (comparing the OE supplied MXV4's to 'aftermarket' MXV4's). It's too bad there is a difference, what would be intresting to know is why?

No clue on that one. My guess is it has something to do with either the OEM tires being built to a cost or being built in a different plant etc.

Yes steve, i did only have one set fo tires ont hat car, but i have had many other tires on other cars. thats what i was referring it to.

But you can't really compare your experiences with tires on other cars to experiences with tires on this car. In my experience no other car is as picky about tires as a Lexus. Lincolns, Cadillacs, etc the ride of the car is mostly in the suspension and there is lots of sound deadening so it doesn't really matter what kind of tire is on the car. A Lexus on the other hand it matters a great deal. I've had experiences with 10 sets of tires on Lexus vehicles. So far, the quietest and what I'd say the best suited tires for the Lexus have been the Michelin MXV4s.

and you know what, i liked themso much that i took the chrysler down to discount tire today and purchased another set for that car. the Concorde is in the same class of car as an ES330.

Not really. The Concorde is more similar to a Camry or Taurus. Believe it or not there are SIGNIFICANT differences between the way a Camry and an ES ride and drive. I've driven a lot of Camrys on a lot of different tires (including terrible tires, they ship them with Goodyear Integritys now) and they don't seem as affected by tires as the Lexus does. A better Chrysler comparable from that range would be the LHS, more softly sprung etc.