Knightshade

As far as I know the Hotchkis bars are the first available in the US, and they've only been available for about a week, so I doubt anyone has a review of em yet. I did see some Jun-TW bars listed probably a month ago for the first time but not much info could be found in english on them at the time so it wouldn't surprise me if nobody here has those installed on anything yet either... L Tuned is similarly lacking in any details on the parts I'm unaware of TOMS making any sway bars, just braces I also suspect some folks are waiting to buy either until we get specs on the Lexus-branded bars that go on sale in March to see how they compare

Belt? The IS350 has electronic/electric power steering

Plug into what exactly? Best bet, especially not having nav or XM, is just get a good GPS unit. You can spend just a few hundred bucks and get one that does bluetooth (through the factory stereo), and some will do XM as well (including realtime traffic, which the OEM GPS can't even do). Failing that for under 50 bucks (well under on sale) you can just get a bluetooth earpiece to talk on the phone/answer calls... it just won't be voice activated or do phonebook/dialing stuff like the GPS solution would.

There's a LONG thread on this topic here: http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244713 Why idling is horrible for a car is mentioned a number of times in the thread, with varying degrees of explanation from different posters

Knightshade - could you give me the name of the sales manager - I live in North Raleigh. Thanks I would but your PMs are disabled... you can call Johnson Lexus at Southpoint and ask for Jeremy though :) Tell him Ted sent you

It doesn't depend on the dealership, the first 5k service (mainly an oil change) is free at any Lexus dealer in the US.

It's a shame they're doing that though, as "warming up" a car by letting it sit and idle is one of the worst possible things you can do to a modern engine.

You can only play DVDs if you got the Mark Levinson option (because otherwise your stereo doesn't have a DVD changer, it has a CD changer). Even then you can only play movies if the car is in park unless you hack your wiring (or have an 06 with old navigation firmware)

Probably the biggest change for 07 was adding a button to disable traction control, plus the availability of the X package options

Sure. It's still better than the economies of nearly any other country in the world. Even our poor people are massively better off than the average person in most other nations.

Firstly you can check the MSRP at edmunds.com Second, you can have XM or Sirius, not both (I think XM was the only "factory (well port installed) option in 07 though) Third, fully loaded would include the precollision system (a 2000+ dollar option), park assist, headlight washers, etc... if it only has the options you list it's well equiped, but not fully loaded, and he's just tossing that out as marketing BS. You may well not care about hte options it's missing, but jsut trying for accuracy here. 41k with Lux plus, Nav/ML, XM, and the HKS dealer exhaust option would be a decent deal on an 07 I suppose... though only maybe 2k less than you can get a brand new 08 similarly equpped in a color you pick if you find a good deal... up to you if you care about it being a year-old model or not and if the color is what you want. He's not massively overpricing it or anything, but I'm sure he's happy to get rid of a leftover with the 08s having been out nearly 2 months now. I'd imagine if you show up with cash ready to buy he might knock another grand off though.

Actually, it won't do many of those things. The IS depreciates slower, and gets me where I'm going considerably faster and with better handling, and a long list of functionality the corolla doesn't offer. One of the reasons I bought my 08 IS new is that used ones weren't significantly cheaper at all. I agree about disagreeing, I just want some honesty in what is being disagreed about. The aftermarket system does a lot more for a lot less money. There are reasons to prefer the OEM system, but they're about being willing to give up features and pay a lot more for a physical look you prefer (and possibly the backup camera if that's somehow a huge deal for you). Likewise the IS does a lot of things a corolla can't, so that's hardly a fair comparison despite a significant price difference. If the corolla had more performance and features for less money your analogy would make a lot more sense. I understand cognative dissonance will make people who paid $2500 for an OEM unit want to find extra reasons it's "worth it"... and I agree there are a very few real reasons it might be, but "being a better system" sure isn't one of em in an objective or feature-for-feature sense. Go back to how this thread began. The original poster wanted to know if the cost of the OEM system was "worth it" (ie do you get objective value for your money compared to other choices) Even Lexus, according to the article I posted, says the answer is no. One might still find a reason to buy it (looks, mainly) but the buyer didn't ask "does the OEM system look better in the dash"

Absolutely you're entitled to it... just as my opinion is that spending 10 times more money for something that does a lot less and makes the car depreciate faster (as well as costing more to update) is a massive waste of funds. If you want to keep spending more to get less that's your business though. For folks who find it's worth a couple thousand bucks to give up features but have a slightly more integrated look they're entitled to that opinion too, I just disagree with it. If you simply MUST have it inside the dash though you can still spend less and get an aftermarket head unit with a nav screen that does more than the factory unit and goes right into your dash. I don't use suction cups BTW, the gravity mount works great on both our Lexus vehicles (my wife and mine) as well as her Supra, and doesn't take any mounting at all, which makes moving it from one car to another as simple as picking it up and putting it down (same with taking it off the dash and putting it in the console or putting it in a rental if we fly someplace). There's only one wire, and it goes straight down into the power outlet next to the ashtray, so it's not in the way of anything. I absolutely agree with the folks who say Nav in general is an awesome feature, I just think the factory method of getting it is the worst possible way. If you read the USA article I posted even Lexus seems to acknowledge this and mentions Toyota is working on cheaper factory systems to try and make them more competitive with the aftermarket offerings.

Yeah, to be honest, I'm gonna stick with the mountain of research by people who track used car prices for a living over "what you see in used car prices" How you "don't see the value" in realtime traffic, especially living near some of the worst traffic on earth, I guess we will indeed have to agree to disagree there.... it certain has a lot more value than the backup camera, which is the only thing on the Lexus nav that isn't measurable WORSE than an aftermarket unit. In short- Lexus unit (in the IS): No realtime traffic Expensive map updates Cripples itself while in motion Costs 2000-2500 extra Significantly higher depreciation than non-nav car according to all factual research Aftermarket unit: Realtime traffic (and weather and nearby fuel prices in some cases) Inexpensive map updates Can be moved to rental vehicles or other cars you own, or keep it if you sell your IS costs 300-500 bucks for more features than 2000=2500 unit Can even be loaded with european maps if traveling overseas with it Can upgrade to unit with even more new features for again fraction of cost of lexus unit Can be used as media station (to hold pictures, audiobooks, mp3s, etc) Can be used fully while car is in motion (hopefully by passenger for safety) Both choices can have dead reckoning, bluetooth, work through the factory stereo, etc....

I don't think I'd try typing into the unit at 75 mph while driving either. But when I'm using my GPS it's usually on a trip (be it a roadtrip in one of our cars, or a longer trip in a rental using my GPS) and so my wife is usually right next to me and she can type stuff in without any safety issue. If we had to come to a stop to do that it'd be a massive annoyance.

Bluetooth is available on the aftermarket NAV units- They can even pipe your calls through the factory stereo system, so no real loss there. DVD? It only works in park at a dead stop, unless you're willing to hack up the wiring and void your warranty. Likewise you have to be stopped to input a lot of things, while with an aftermarket unit your passenger can safely do this while in motion. Which seems more useful? Being able to watch movies while the vehicle is in park, or being auto-routed around accidents and construction like an aftermarket unit can do? Some aftermarket units will also download realtime data on the cheapest price of gas near you, current weather conditions where you're traveling, and a lot more. Oh, and there are aftermarket units that do dead reckoning too (working if you lose sat. signal) Like I said, I've used built in nav. It SUCKS compared to a good aftermarket unit that's a lot cheaper and does a lot more... plus is cheaper to update, is portable between vehicles, and if even more new features the OEM unit can't ever do become available I can upgrade to a new unit for again massively less money than I'd have paid for the OEM unit. I guess if you want to pay $2500 extra to get a less-functional unit that "looks" slightly nicer by being built in, well, that's your choice... but it's certainly not "better" in any objective sense.

That's true. Cars with nav lose a lot more of their value than cars without nav. http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2007-0...sale-usat_N.htm I've used in-car nav. It's annoying that it costs 10 times as much yet does a lot less. I can't see any logic in that math. Even worse when they charge 3-4 times as much for map updates too. And if you don't see the value in real-time traffic info on your GPS (which aftermarket offers but OEM doesn't), well, you live in DC, I can't see HOW you don't understand the value of that unless you've never used it. It'll auto route you around accidents and other problems.

I can happily report the flat area of the dash right above the center stack is perfect for a weight-mount Garmin GPS, and then the power cable goes straight down to the plug next to the ashtray, no clutter at all. Plus by using the weight mount it takes less than 30 seconds to install/remove it, if you want to put it away in the console, or move it to another vehicle (I take mine with me anytime I'm flying someplace where I'll have a rental for example) BTW, the ML system itself (different head unit, different amps, different speakers) is really only $940 regardless of if you get nav or not... the extra $500 you get charged if you get Nav with ML is to swap the CD changer for a DVD changer... so I suppose technically if you REALLY care about DVD-A discs then the ML w/Nav option offers one other thing the aftermarket GPS won't.

Except, you can't. The ML only option is just $940. Given what is involved in replacing the factory head unit you're not going to get a superior custom installed system for anywhere -near- that cost, especially not one that does nav. Hell, you can pay more than $940 for -just- an aftermarket head unit with nav, no amps, no speakers, no custom install certainly. To the previous poster- Yup, mine was a special order, not just for wanting ML without Nav but also for wanting the sports package (mine is an 08, and was still the first sports package car the dealership had ever seen). My experience was excellent, because I was lucky enough to find a sales manager that appreciated I was basically walking in off the street with a suitcase of cash I wanted to hand to him in exchange for him filling out a couple of forms. Not all dealers are this reasonable abut special orders though, it's very much a YMMV thing.

It -really- just depends on the dealer. Some seem to hate special orders, will virtually refuse to do them, and won't take anything off MSRP when they do them. Others are smart enough to realize they're getting a built-in profit for just doing a little paperwork and are more than happy to take your money for filling out a couple of forms. There seems no rhyme or reason to which dealers are which kind though.

You absolutely can get ML without Nav, that's exactly what I did... for the reason you mention- Adding Nav would be $3000 and would do -less- than the $300 aftermarket GPSes you can buy today. (specifically an aftermarket nav doesn't cripple itself while the car is in motion... plus it can be moved to a rental vehicle if you travel, or your wifes car if taking it on a trip, etc....). Plus you can get realtime traffic in many aftermarket units today, which isn't available with the factory system... and you can get Bluetooth... so the only thing the factory unit really gives you stock is the backup camera... and honestly the car isn't so big you really need one. Plus to update a Garmin GPS maps each year is $75. Your lexus dealer will want $300 for new maps. Oh, and OEM Nav is bad for resale value too. So, in short, skip the nav :)

Once they're not though, any Autozone should be able to pull engine codes for free... it'd be up to you to figure out if they're "real" problems and what to do about em though, but it'll save you the hour of labor the dealer will probably charge to pull codes.

No, it doesn't mean that. It means some discs might not be -playable- Like if it has scratches, wasn't burned properly, etc. In fact it specifically says "Playback may not be possible or the audio may jump if the disc is scratched or marked with fingerprints" it then goes on for 2 more pages about exactly how the disc has to be burned, what mix of files you can use, what kinda folder/filename structure is ok, etc... That has nothing to do with getting stuck in the mechanism when inserting or removing. If it meant thickness specifically it would say thickness, and if it meant getting stiuck it wouldn't refer to playback. It does explicitly mention elsewhere that CD-Rs -with sticky labels- can cause a problem specifically with ejecting. It has a seperate section on such. Where it doesn't state CD-Rs in general aren't allowed. Just not to use added labels. (It also mentions CDs that are deformed, are a smaller diameter, or have translucent recording areas can cause similar eject problems). I agree not to use crap CD-Rs though because you may have playback problems, bad burns, etc...

Yes, it says playback may not be possible. As in if you don't burn it correctly the music might not play. Which has nothing to do with the disc going into and out of the changer correctly. CD-Rs are explicitly supported, and while I agree the dealer might well "blame" it on using them, they can't do anything at all to stop you from getting it fixed free under warranty. It does seem to be a moderately common problem (there's at least 3 or 4 threads on Club Lexus about exactly this problem) but in every case the dealer (who in some cases tried to complain about use of CD-Rs) replaced it free under warranty, because it's a supported use of the device. Dealers (depending on the dealer) will say a lot of things, but as long as you remain aware they're required to fix it you can let em say whatever they want :)

Possible? Sure. Just a huge pain. The stock head unit brains must be remounted someplace else and remain wired in for your AC to work, and any mounting kit for the new head unit will be custom made as they don't make anything for this car.