vinovelo

While I agree with most of what is said here please be aware that in situations where you have a short daily commute for example that the 400h may never live up to expectations mileage wise. If you make a lot of short trips with a cold engine you may see low mileage. Perhaps as low as 21 from what some have said. The engine efficiency when getting up to temperature is low. Once up to temperature in city traffic it CAN do fairly well. Especially when compared to it's gas only counterpart, the RX350. For what is worth ANY vehicle will get horrible mileage with short cold trips. My personal experience with short 8-10 mile city trips is that I get about 24-26 IF I am very careful. On longer mixed driving of about 70% highway and 30% city I get about 28. This is with pulling every trick in the book to maximize the use of the electric motor usage. If I have fun and just drive the 400h with disregard to mileage it drops to about 22 - 24. THE one time I got very high mileage was during an 80 mile trip during rush hour jams where 90% of it was in very sluggish slow rolling traffic. I managed to get 33.1 mpg. I was quite pleased but that was a somewhat unusual situation. That scenario seems to maximize the use of the electric motors. All that said my opinion is that the 400h gets decent mileage but where it really shines is the CVT tranny in traffic. No more do you feel the constant shifting through the bottom three gears only a smooth quiet movement. It has a very calming effect in traffic jams where you do not feel the vehicle constantly shifting and it's running on battery mostly. I believe the difference in the cost from the RX350 to RX400h is worth it especially if you plan to keep it for many years. /Steve

Are you saying the 400h can't have Nav w/out having a backup camera? Or do you mean you PERSONALLY wouldn't be w/out both. After all, the MFD is installed regardless of Nav. All the backup camera needs is the MFD. The Nav & backup camera are completely independent, so you COULD have one w/out the other. Yep, the Garmin simply tells you, "off route .... recalculating" when you go the wrong way. Garmin makes dozens of different units if you are comparing the lexus to a less expensive Garmin it isn't a fair comparison. It's like saying a Chevy Corvette isn't fast because you drove a Chevy Colbalt that was slow.If you haven't used the Garmin 7500 you really haven't seen how many more things a GPS unit is capability of doing. The Garmin 7500 is better than the Lexus and maybe the best GPS on the market. It has a built in MP# player that I like to use to listen to old time radio shows on long trips. It has a built in XM radio that gives traffic weather, and stock reports. It has a better database that shows more stores and businesses than the Lexus, and most of the streets in Anderson SC that show up on the Garmin are missing on the Lexus GPS.. Even though it is better than the Lexus I still would want the factory unit for the additional display features. PS AS crazy as it may seem to have a remote control for a GPS, I have found that the Garmin Remote control comes in handy because it allows me to use the unit without reaching over to touch the dashboard. But on the other hand the Lexus blanks out most of the features while the car is moving. Very interesting on the Garmin unit. I wonder if you got the two units working at the same time if they would get into an argument on route instructions! Another benefit I would imagine is the ability to leave the dash display on INFO while using the Garmin so you can see maps and drivetrain information at the same time. The ability to use the Garmin while driving is a BIG motivator. I find the Lexus unit voice recgnition practically useless. Sometimes it get names correct easily and other times no matter how clearly I speak it is off the wall. Plus little things like always having to run through state, city, street enter addreses is an annoying. I have a 7 year old Acura NAVI that has a much better GUI. The only thing the Lexus unit has over it is it is faster and displays intersection graphics better with a larger display. /Steve

I have to agree that 29.3 is WAAAY on the high side. The bell curve top is in the range of 24 - 26 mpg. The computer is ALWAYS 1 MPG higher than actual too. I seem to be getting 27 and that is if I make an extreme effort to get the 27 as well, taking every effort to coax the ICE to stay off by going slow enough to run on batteries for 1/2 mile at a time using pulse and glide methods and keeping highway speeds near 65 MPH whenever possible. It is extremely difficult to do so as not to impede traffic. Short trips of several miles also KILL the mileage since the first 2 -3 miles the ICE runs to get everything up to temperature. I think the original estimate for fuel savings are pretty much on the money. If I just drove this vehicle without employing any of the fuel saving tricks I would not be surprised at all to get around 22 - 24 MPG. If I were stuck in 20+ miles of peak traffic every day exclusively with little to no "normal" speed driving, maybe, just maybe, I would get just a little better if I were extremely careful. Driving in cold weather or very hot with the A/C running a lot and forget it. Don't get me wrong I really like the 400h but the cost and complexity of the hybrid drive train for fuel efficiency alone is clearly not worth it. The CVT's shiftless smoothness quiet ride, seamless and abundant power are better reasons. The fact that when I AM stuck in traffic get very good mileage is icing on the cake. /Steve

Well, here is some interesting info on the subject: http://wcco.com/consumer/hybrid.conversion.kit.2.764431.html It's nice to see someone experimenting with the idea. The part about setting up conversion shops that will do this in as little as an hour tells me it's more about getting media attention for the experiment than anything else and of course the media just eats this stuff up. /Steve

There is more too it than that. With the Synergy system accessories like steering, braking, (as well as A/C) are electric. Coasting with the engine off in a non-hybrid car is dangerous. /Steve

That's a great video. What I wish they also mentioned is the courtesy factor. There was one scene there showing a car (HYBRID?) going slow with a stack of drivers behind it. That can be quite infuriating and also less fuel efficient for some vehicles (non CVT stuck in a lower gear). I routinely go slower that the speed limit on certain roads to run with the ICE off. It's a blast but, only if I'm not blocking someone. /Steve

Hi gryphix, The greatest MPG killer is short trips ... those short trips will kill more than a lead foot on the accelerator. The lead foot is simply a learned habbit that can get corrected. But the ICE simply is NOT as efficient as when it's up to operating temperature. You'd be lucky to average even 25mpg if a moderate portion of your trips are under 5 miles. That said, Toyota does sell an electric block heater (ebh) that makes a big difference for us on BOTH our hybrids. Example: Without block heater on our prius, our 1st five minutes will average about 20mpg. WITH the ebh, the 1st five minutes go up to 50mpg. Similarly on the 400h, the first 5 minutes w/out the ebh, it will get 14mpg. Using the EBH gets the 400h's first 5 minutes up to 29mph or more. This helps even in the summer ... much less the winter. And when I do the math, the 65 or 75 minutes of electricity (we use a timer to energize the extension cord) to warm the block is less costly then the gas we'd have used. Better mpg's don't come naturally, either. It takes effort & practice. Good luck! FYI, I stumbled upon this GREAT install guide for the EBH. It looks fairly easy and straight forward: http://www.greenhybrid.com/wiki/index.php/...on_Instructions MY only problem is my RX is parked outdoors with no easy access to a power source. But I might just be tempted to run an extension cord for it. I am surprised it makes that much difference even in summer weather. I would think the catalyst would take as much time to get up to temp as the coolant. Guess that is not so. From a post: ----------------------------------------------------------- And it IS a Toyota part, from Toyota of Canada. Have your dealer check at Toyota Associated Products. You can view the parts online, but you have to be a dealer to order from them. It's Pyroil Engine Heater 644, SKU: 001130021300644 ----------------------------------------------------------- /Steve

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ That "surge" you get just before coming to a stop may very well one day save your life. On a FWD or F/AWD vehicle it is potentially life-threatening to have a significant level of braking, engine compression braking or regen braking, should the roadbed traction be questionable. Ford now has a US patent that addresses this issue in their hybrids. Ford reduces the level of regenerative braking significnatly as/when the OAT approaches/reaches freezing levels. Additionally regenerative braking is disabled completely the instant ABS detects impending lockup during actual braking. I wouldn't be very surprised at all if this is one of the cross-license issues and so, as a safety measure, Toyota/Lexus HSD vehicles are likely to do the same. thing ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The infamous "surge" is not that effect at all. I experience this myself only once in a great while, usually when coming to a stop at a slight downhill angle. It isn't so much a surge as the resistance of the regenerative braking releasing just before a stop. The result is that you need to push harder than expected just before stopping. I have only experienced this about three times in several months. I could see that if a driver was distracted or not paying full attention you could easily end up hitting a bumper or stopping further into a cross walk. It is difficult to reproduce on command. It is fairly subtle. /Steve

I've owned a 08 400h for near 6 months now and am also in the Bay Area. So far the vehicle has been flawless. I'm not sure which dealerships you may have talked with but I can highly recommend Magnessens in Fremont. I got my best low/no pressure deal there. See George Neal. Here are a few of my observations. - Fuel efficiency. Certianly the wrong reason to buy this car but everyine that does get one focuses on how well (or not) it does. I notice that with very careful driving I can get about 27+ in it. Stop & go is bad for any vehicle but slow rolls (think highway 880, etc) it can do quite well if you are gentle on it to keep the ICE from engaging. I notice that it has the tendency to flatten out large hills. I routinely drive over highway 17 to Aptos and 92 to Half Moon Bay. I end up with the same average MPG after the climb. Sometimes better. Wednesday after climbing 92 it registered 29.2 MPG (the computer seems to be about 1 mpg higher than actual calculations). If you are heavy footed you are probably going to get about 22. After two tripe to downtown Fremont (5 miles) it was back down to a horrile 27.5 MPG. Drat. - Drivetrain. The other reason to own one for traffic is the CVT transmission. No hunting for gears in slow stop & go traffic. No more shift points. The transmission is always geared for the highest efficency needed at any moment. It has a very calming effect (at least on me). It just glides along. - Ride. Some find the ride too soft. I find I like it very much. A good balance. But I do not normally drive agressively. On mountain roads it feels fairly sure footed. I have the Michelin tires. - Power. Unbelievable power. At any speed. Instant torque at any time. Want to pass a semi going up a steep hill? No problem at all. Yeah, your fuel will suffer but... Under full acceleration it is a bit noisy and rough sounding but how much are you doing that anyway? Under normal driving conditions it is very quiet. If anything I wish that a slightly smaller engine were used for better FE but Lexus goes the performance route. - Fit and finish inside and out is industry standard setting. For the less important stuff: - NAVI. Not as good as my 7 year old Acura. But sufficient. I have had no real problems with it and use it frequently. - Headlights. Once aimed properly the automatic headlights are GREAT. I can't tell you how nice it is comming down highway 17 in the dark at midnight. They just turn where you are thinking (OK, well, turning). - Stereo. It's pretty good. Not as good as the Bose system in my 7 year old Acura TL but OK. I would not spend the extra on an ML system upgrade. This is a great vehicle for anything from trips to Costco or the local garden nursery or long road trips. For me I find the styling elegant. Unlike the majority of SUV vehicles on the market. There are hundreds of details to critique. I plan to do a one year critique. There will be some features that will be rated low but overall I would buy it again. /Steve Newark, CA

Hoy, that was amazing that you got 28-29 MPG on average. Is that the computer MPG or your actual calculation? What was your MPH when you got 29 MPG? I use the gliding technique too, but I hate it when stupid drivers cut in front of me as if I don't know how to drive (just because I'm smart and driving slow to save gas rather than hitting the gas and brake continuously like those impatient people). I too practice gliding to get into battery mode and have been successful at 35 MPH (sometimes 40). But, I am always mindful of traffic around me. If traffic flow is faster and you are driving 10-15 mph below the speed limit just to get better gas mileage that can be extremely annoying to other drivers. Plus, their conventional vehicle may be forced out of overdrive and top gear meaning you can be causing them to be getting lower mileage.

LOL, sorry but thats just stupid. You could have bought a different vehicle. You instead bought an aging vehicle that is about to be replaced. Thats like the guys that were buying 2004 vettes because they were getting a special deal or something instead of buying the new completely updated vehicle. IN the case of the 400H, its extremely dated at this point. My 2006 is dated and they are still going on and on, they should have done a redone already. Gee, stupid me. I made the same mistake. Don't need or want a bigger vehicle. Didn't want to wait another 1 - 1.5 years. IMHO buying a models 2-3 years into the design cycle is very smart. Loads of little detail upgrades and fixes take place. Even Lexus refines and implements fixes every year. They become more reliable and trouble free. I don't think the RX looks dated at all at this point. It has THE most elegant style of any SUV out there. Oh, and I usually keep my vehicles 12 - 15 years. /Steve

I see your zip is 94010. Burlingame right? For Bay Area dealers I can recommend Mangnassen in Fremont off Auto Mall rd. They are very low key. The only other I have experience with is Stevens Creek Lexus in San Jose. I did not have a very good experience there. Not bad mind you but I felt like I was simply unimportant. Check the Costco buying program for a starting point. It will direct you to Stevens Creek's fleet manager. (I found him friendly on the phone but arrogant in person. Go figure). That will give you a starting point. I am in Newark. Magnussens is just down the street. One thing I would recommend is a test drive in a hilly area. Lexus of Serramonte is nearby. A hilly area. One test drive up a steep hill should convince you of the amazing torque the hybrid system delivers. I make wine with a friend in Aptos and am constantly driving over highway 17 to Santa Cruz. The RX400h is a pleasure driving over mountain passes. I still remember the last time over there when I fueled up. Filled up in Aptos, drove up highway 1 for ten miles averaging 28 MPG. Got to the summit of 17 with 20 MPG and back down to Los Gatos with the average back up to 27+. It nearly flattened out the hill mileage wise. /Steve

I own both an Acura TL and an 08 RX400h. The TL is several years old as a second car. I love the Navi system and I agree it has a better user interface design. I find the RX Navi system slightly inferior in some ways to the Acura offering but fairly good. The voice recognition feature will let you enter a destination fairly easily while driving and the Bluetooth connection to the phone works well. It would not be enough to discourage me from the RX400h. Some features on the Navi will work in motion such as panning and zooming. There are so many other things that I love about the RX that the Navi is a very minor issue. The hybrid drive system with a CVT tranny is amazing. I find the finnish on the Lexus a bit better as well. The Lockpick system supposedly works on the 08 (one person here installed it?) but the last I heard the official word was the supplier has not qualified it. /Steve

Just a quick update on my problems, which now seem to be solved. I went back to the service department of my Lexus dealer and asked them for a road test with the foreman of the shop floor. When I arrived there and explained what I believe the problem was, the foreman said that he probably already knows what's wrong with the car and we even don't have to go for the road test. He asked if my battery was dead at some point in the past, and I confirmed it (I once left the interior light on over night, and the next day I couldn't start the car anymore and had to jumpstart it). So he said that the ECM was most likely the problem and he wanted to reset it so that it starts learning again. He also showed me a printout in which one item (I believe it was the ECM) was incomplete when I brought the car in, and complete after they fixed it. He also showed me a service document that listed some of the symptoms that I experienced, and the remedy for it (resetting of or relearning for the ECM). Since then my Lexus is performing well again, and the mileage is up to 28 to 29mpg from 21 to 22. I am very, very happy again with the car, and believe me, I was pretty upset before. I was really happy with the service this time, but I am pretty disappointed with my last 20k service where I had already complained about the same problems, and they told me that they read back the diagnostics and couldn't find anything wrong with the car. I wonder what diagnostics they checked this time. Also last time when I picked up the car after the service and got into the car in the pickup garage, a service reminder popped up on the center display informing that a service (don't remember which one) is due. That also made me think how thorough the service was performed in the first place, and how serious they had taken my complaint that the hybrid doesn't work properly anymore. Does any of you know if I always have to get the ECM reset if I drain my battery? If it has to be done, can it be done by the user or do I always have to take it to the Lexus service? 28 - 29 is mpg outstanding. If I drive very carefully I can get 26 - 28. I have had mine 4 months and while I do not have the exact same issue as you it is a little similar. The ICE does stop at idle (red lights) OK but seems to have a tendency to kick in way too easily. On flat and level roads sometimes even feathering the gas pedal the ICE kicks on as I start from a light. Anything less than an 8 - 10 mile ride (even on warm days) kills the mileage. It just seems like the electric motors are too weak or something to get the vehicle moving to 20 mph or so before kicking in the ICE. Only when I coast down to a slow speed with the engine at full temperature after a long ride am I able to get extended time with the ICE off, usually at low < 30 mph speeds (which is a blast when it happens). One trick I have learned recently by experimentation is to accelerate normally and then lift off the throttle till I see the green regenerative graphics on the info display and then ever so gently push into the throttle till the electric motor starts (yellow arrows) but not hard enough to have the ICE kick in. I then notice I can run in electric mode 100% for short distances of 1/4 mile at a time. Sometimes the ICE begins to kick in again and I repeat lifting off the throttle to get back into electic mode. I've done this successfully at speeds over 35 MPH, sometimes near 40! If I do not lift all the way off the throttle when I reach my desired speed the ICE will stay on. If I do not absolutely baby the thing the mileage drops to the low 20's. If I get on the throttle and have fun (easy to do with all that power),....I don't even want to know how bad the mileage is. /Steve

What was your model and equipment list? /Steve

The only thing I am noticing so far is that the seat belt retractors seem to pull the belt clip into a position where it rattles against the door pillar by default. I have to constantly reach over to the passenger seat when not occupied and flip it around so it doesn't rattle. It will be interesting to see how it ages. I had a 94 Toyota Camry XLE that was superb for the 1st 10 years and then started to develop rattles in the dash. Otherwise it was near flawless for it's 14.25 years of service. /Steve

I second this. I have only owned an RX440h for a few months now and even removing the fuel savings from the equation it is still very worth while. The shiftless CVT is amazing. Especially in traffic. I routinely hit one bottle neck that used to really irritate me with a normal tranny with it constantly shifting from 2-3-4th as the traffic constantly nearly stopped and started again. The CVT has a very calming effect because you are not trying to coax it into the next higher gear. The other situation is a mountain pass I drive over about once a month. The RX just seems to float over it. The shiftless CVT and power (especially torque) of the drivetrain makes driving the RX over hilly terrain a pleasure. Now add back in the fuel economy: so far I am getting 26 - 27 MPG. That's icing on the cake. /Steve

What I meant is that most people today put behind the wheel of an old truck with no power steering would be in for quite a shock. Very interesting feedback. I had not considered that the system might actually me MUCH worse than a similar manual system. I really wonder what failed in that they replaced the whole rack rather than the power components. Well you got me beat. I only had to walk just under two miles for a few years (rain or snow, and it was a pain in the !Removed! in winter). "in my day we had to walk five miles to school, rain or snow". You forgot to add: "and we liked it!" :D /Steve

Yes, you can be quite sure that the Toyota engineers took just as much care in the design, FAILSAFE design, as did the engineers for the Boeing 737's hydraulic rudder servo controls. I am sure they did, and, the 737's control failure was more of a problem with Alaska Airs cutting maintainence on the jack screw assembly. I for one remember what it is like to steer a heavy vehicle without power steering. I think we are all spoiled these days. I wonder how hard the steering becomes if the electric assist fails. /Steve

OK, Now that starts to make a little sense. I have a (highly) modified 94 Mazda Miata with a supercharger that I installed and am quite aware of the value of the boost gauge. Come to think about it if I stomp on the RX400h the power meter does seem to respond in much the same way as the boost gauge I installed on the Miata does. This tells me that the electric motors may be contributing quite a bit of power/torque under heavy acceleration. It certianly feels that way. Unfortunately the owners manual doesn't help you to understand that. /Steve

Hi all, This power meter thingy on the dash cluster. What is it really telling me. The owners manual says is displays the power output of the hybrid system in Kilowatts. I understand that but what does it really mean in terms of power or efficiency to the drive wheels. So far I have only noticed it get near 100 inder moderate or heavy acceleration. I would have liked to see a tachometer instead. It would be interesting to see what the engine is doing with the CVT tranny. I'm almost tempted to put in an aftermarket one if I could find on that would compliment the interior and dash. /Steve

Very interesting. I was surprised that I could not find a fluid level check like most automatics. Thanks for the info. I'm still learning all about the technical aspect of this beast. /Steve

Thank you sir! This is what I was looking for. I thought I could tweak these myself. Guess not. After looking at the list the vast majority of things seem to be best left at the standard settings. Thanks, /Steve

I hear that there is a cheat sheet with instructions for setting the preferences for the RX(?). Anyone have one of these? If so, care to post it? Thanks, /Steve 2008 rx400h Silver ADW

The chock is a good idea! I just had my first flat on my new 400h. (at only 1500 miles too!) I had no problem with the jack but after noticing this thread I was careful. I did notice that the width of the jack at the base might be an issue if the vehicle shifts a little when jacking it up. Setting the break securely and or using a chock is a real good idea. Basic safety. /Steve