Jim Clark

I guess I need to be smokin whatever you guys are putting in your pipes.

I agree about preferring low-end torque. When you punch our cars and get all 3 motors working, the power is impressive. But if they were producing 550 ft lbs at the wheels we'd be doing about 4.5 sec 0-60 times.

First that isn't ft-lbs.. it' newton-meters and the conversion factor is like .7375622 I believe. However this is why the wheels on the RX 350 aren't suited to the RX400h. So 751 newton meters equals 552.55 ft-lbs of torque. :whistles: 550 ft lbs of torque should give you whiplash. Our 400h's have a good amount of power but I don't see how anyone can claim they have 550 ft lbs of torque. I won't believe it until I see some credible evidence. The best evidence I have so far is driving the car. There is NO WAY our cars have 500+ ft lbs of torque. Well you would have to take that up with NeoN it's his data i am only telling you the data he posted is equal to 553 ft-lbs of torque, no as an engineer myself, I must say you have to consider how the torque is applied and how the computer allocates the power for the Toyota hybrid system. for example just look at the GS450h vs the Rx400h. It depends on how the computer program is designed to apply the torque and how much is possible from all three sources at once. The programming of the system for power,acceleration and performance, or more reasonable performance and better fuel economy. It is entirely possible that the way the system is engineered that the full 553 ft-lbs is never available all at once, actually I would be willing to bet a sizeable sum of money on that point. It's not a Porsche Cayenne Hybrid geared toward performance primarily, it's a Lexus Scorer Mom/Dad type vehicle and probably programmed accordingly!!!!!! :chairshot: I have to say and thankfully so, I have a Porsche Cayenne S and I bought my Lexus RX400h for the decent fuel economy and decent performance it gives in an SUV size vehicle. 4365 lbs curb weight, 4 wheel drive version!!!! I have to say 6.9 sec 1/4 mile aint bad considering you can get 26 to 30 mpg highway, my Cayenne S only gets 16 to 18mpg highway and doesn't perform that much better in the 1/4 mile!!!!! The 2006 Porsche Cayenne Turbo S only does 5.9 sec 1/4 mile what do you want? You're saying the hybrid system is "capable" of 550+ ft lbs but we'll never get to use it? 7 sec 1/4 mile? :whistles: Now THAT's impressive ;) I know what you meant. I guarantee the maximum torque at the wheels is less than 300 ft lbs, probably closer to 250. IF our cars can be dyno'd, and I still don't think they can because the hybrid system will go crazy and shut down, it would show that.

First that isn't ft-lbs.. it' newton-meters and the conversion factor is like .7375622 I believe. However this is why the wheels on the RX 350 aren't suited to the RX400h. So 751 newton meters equals 552.55 ft-lbs of torque. :whistles: 550 ft lbs of torque should give you whiplash. Our 400h's have a good amount of power but I don't see how anyone can claim they have 550 ft lbs of torque. I won't believe it until I see some credible evidence. The best evidence I have so far is driving the car. There is NO WAY our cars have 500+ ft lbs of torque.

OK, I must be a complete idiot. BUT, wouldn't a vehicle with 600-700 ft lbs of torque (at the wheels) be WAY WAY faster than our 400h's? What am I missing?

Yes, I guess so. Or from a magazine test, which I have not seen yet. I seem to remember (but can't find) someone posting a combined max torque number over 700, which surely cannot be correct. Tom Our electric motors are "torquey" but they ain't THAT torquey, LOL.

The hybrid system may not react well to a 4 wheel dyno. With the rears only being driven be the electric motor, if it shuts off during the run and the fronts continue to speed up, the car's computer(s) will likely go bonkers. You need to bring the dyno slowly up to speed before you punch it for the actual run. You would have to be able to punch it from the start to ensure the rear electric motor stays engaged and I don't know if you can do that, I'm pretty sure you can not. It's possible our AWD cars can not be dyno'd. FWD could be done.

Are you sure it was related to the weather? Sounds like you just had rain and wind. I would be very surprised if the computer was not in a tightly sealed casing. But it does seem odd for a computer to fail like that.

Those WAAG bars look pretty cool but why bother? We can't go off-road with the 400h.

Let me guess . . . pohanka? That may be common when there is a trade in. Once I negotiated a good price on a new acura, then we negotiated a good price on my trade in. But when they did the paperwork, they raised the price on the Acura and raised the price on my trade in by the same amount so that it looked like they sold the new acura at full sticker. (this was in a jurisdiction that at the time only charged sales tax on the price difference -- I think some places don't do that anymore so i only cared about the difference and not the listed sales price). A good buddy who's had a couple of Lexus's won't deal with Pohanka and he is way closer to them than Lindsay. I heard the same from a couple of other people who are closer to Pohanka than Lindsay. Lindsay is also a better option for service for us, the wife can drop it there and they'll take her to the Metro and it's a quick ride to her office. I also like buying a car where it will be serviced, I think it gives me at least a little more leverage. Unfortunately, in VA, you pay sales tax based on purchase price. I think it used to be based on the purchase/trade difference, but no more.

Be careful trying to argue with "videophiles", they are more opinionated about their home theater equipment than we are about our cars. Runco and Fujitsu are not sold in big box stores. Runco has been making very high-end expensive stuff for a long time, they were known for their excellent CRT front projectors when those were pretty much the only option before advances in LCD. Plasma was not an option for me. I know some people like its picture best primarily because it delivers the best blacks but LCD and LCoS (including rear projectors) have made great strides. Also I needed at least 60" for my room (could go bigger) and 60" plasmas were out of sight. The best option I found was a 60" Sony LCD rear projector. Fantastic picture and a great value. The Sony LCoS rear projectors are probably the best value out there and their picture is great. Be careful, that burn-in you saw on the Pioneer was not temporary, any plasma can be burned, including your Panny. You must be especially careful if using the screen with a computer. Our car choice was simple, it had to be a hybrid so the wife could use the HOV lanes for commuting. I had driven a friend's MB ML AMG version (500hp) and it's a nice vehicle but the RX is more comfy and bigger. We like having a nice wagon for occasional road trips. The two options were the Highlander and 400h. A loaded Highlander Limited was only $3-4k less than the Lexus and it didn't have memory seats/mirrors/steering wheel. I AM very disappointed in what I've learned about the AWD since we purchased. We don't go off-road but I want "reasonable" AWD performance in the slippery stuff, it seems the 400h AWD is basically worthless. They probably could have gone with a more powerful single electric motor and a transfer case to get something closer to true AWD.

You know, I'm torn on the issue of hydrogen. I've heard the "5 miracles" argument before. On the one hand, I don't see anything on that list that's more daunting than, for example, putting a man on the moon. Undoubtedly it will take revolutionary engineering, but I do think it's a solvable problem. On the other hand, some people/agencies (like the CARB) are using hydrogen as an excuse to not pursue other options that are more near-term. If this were a true free market economy the situation would resolve itself but as long as the oil companies and others with financial interests in one particular technology keep meddling, the most efficient solution will not come to market. Once again, it's all about COST! Honda is marketing a very limited number of hydrogen cars in California for lease only. It's an experiment and it's costing them HUGE $$$. I believe they're losing $300k on each vehicle. And those vehicles are actually hurting the environment as it takes more energy to produce hydrogen than IT can produce. I don't think auto makers are controlled by the oil companies but big oil certainly has a huge influence on our politicians. The laws they pass do affect the auto makers. The money we've spent on the Iraq war would certainly have been better spent on researching alternative renewable sources of energy. It seems the only true renewable sources of energy available right now are wind, solar, and hydroelectric power. But they are not cost effective yet and wind and hydroelectric can have their own negative impacts on the environment. The real problem? Exploding population levels are slowly killing the planet. Nobody is willing to make the sacrifices necessary to reverse the problem and it may already be too late.

To me, SUV implies at least some reasonable off-road capability, that's the "sport" part. I have to agree that our RX's are more crossover than SUV. An Audi allroad (wagon) is more SUV than our RX's. With it's adjustable ride height, and arguably the best AWD system on the planet, it does have off-road capabilities. The Audi Q7, considered by many to be a crossover, is definitely more SUV than our RX's, it shares that great Quattro AWD system with other Audis. To call the RX400h AWD is almost a joke. Ever keep the Energy screen on the Nav system for a while? The rear electric motor is almost never used. Basically, only at start-up from a full stop (and then it's quickly turned off) or when when you floor it (ALL the way down). Haven't had it in slippery stuff yet but reports from people who reside in the great white north are not good, especially in deep snow. My '94 Jeep Grand Cherokee was, I believe, the first SUV built using uni-body type construction. It had a better car-like ride than other SUV's of that era that were built on pick-up truck frames. It's ride and handling are not nearly as nice as our 400h but it's a true SUV with "real" AWD, it can climb trees in low range. My wife does like being back at a higher visibility height. But she never had a problem with our Audi wagons (3). Their overall visibility was actually better, RX's have pretty bad rear quarter blind spots. Lowering the RX's by 2" would still leave a reasonably high ride/visibility height. I'm thinking of going with the Eibach spring kit that would lower it 1.2", if the ride is still good and it's not too expensive. We love the RX, it's the nicest vehicle we ever owned. But we have no misconceptions about its "sport" abilities. Its AWD system will not even come close to the Audi S6 and the Audi was very low to the ground, it just used the front of the car as a plow in the deep stuff.

I'll take your word for it on the emissions needed to create electricity to power electric vehicles but they are not totally clean. I don't think anything is. Also, electric vehicles have drawbacks on range and power. 60 mpg from a 4000 lb SUV? And still have a "reasonable" amount of power? Now THAT would be an incredible technical accomplishment. Our cars could definitely be lower. They can't go off-road and they're even questionable in deep snow. They are not true AWD. They also have more necessary front-end openings for cooling. There are two separate cooling systems for the ICE and front electric motor, each with its own radiator. The other important side of the equation is cost. The cost of getting a RX size vehicle to even 40 mpg would be huge. If Toyota/Lexus could produce vehicles with significantly better mileage and lower emissions than they produce now, at a "reasonable" cost, they would do it.

If your quote read "Toyota is a pioneer because they conquered the details and successfully delivered what no other company would at the time" I would agree with it 100%. GM had a 100% electric car in production. Do you really think that a hybrid would have been that big a stretch for them? They already had the batteries worked out, and this was the biggest technical challenge. GM dropped the hybrid, not because they didn't have the technical expertise, but because big oil killed it and because they were afraid that if they pushed clean cars too much there would be a big backlash against their bread-and-butter gas SUV's like their recently acquired (at the time) Hummer line. I commend Toyota for what they did, but the main driver of their success was political, not technical. Regarding 100% electric vehicles, they probably pollute more than our hybrids. I have to assume they require quite a bit of electricity to charge them. Guess where the majority of our electricity comes from. Carbon greenhouse gas emitting coal fired power plants. It wouldn't surprise me if the emissions created by the power plants needed to charge electric vehicles was more than our hybrids create. Don't get me started on the ethanol scam. Successfully bringing a 4000 lb SUV to market which gets 25+ mpg, has plenty of power, and has super ultra low emissions is quite a technical accomplishment.

The wheel wells certainly have plenty of room, but the stock tire size looks pretty close to the struts. Don't think you could upsize by much.

I got mine at Lindsay. Did not get a whole lot off sticker but they did OK on my trade so that sweetened the deal a bit. They didn't have a lot of inventory at the time and it was a real busy time for them (LOT of shoppers/buyers there the day we bought). They also had our favored color combo ready for delivery that day. I probably could have shopped it more and tried to drive a harder bargain but I had good recommendations on their dealership and not-so-good recommendations on the dealer closest to us. It will also be serviced at Lindsay as they are the most convenient to my wife's office. The finance person did offer us financing packages (we're cash buyers) and extended warranties but it was not a hard sell.

Wow! Some of you got some really good deals. In our area, they aren't discounting them nearly that much. The prices around here on good used ones with low/reasonable mileage were SO high we decided to buy new. In our area, with a qualifying hybrid, we get to use the HOV lanes for commuting (with just the driver), that definitely has an impact on demand. It cuts down my wife's commute time dramatically. She says that you wouldn't believe the number of Prius's she sees every day.

http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/Susptab...=&brand=all thank you! I couldn't find that before but i'm very curious as to just how the RX would handle if you dropped it 1.2" and firmed up the suspension a bit. I just hope it wouldn't screw up the camber/toe settings and would eventually lead to my tires wearing prematurely. Has anyone tried out this lowering kit? I'm very tempted to give it a shot however, as the RX400h has copious amounts of body roll :( From what I've read about the Eibach springs, they are "progressive" which means they still ride good over the bumps (at least the smaller ones) but get progressively stiffer when pushed in the corners. Sounds good if they actually work that way. You would think lowering the car a bit and having firmer springs (when pushed) should improve handling. There's certainly plenty of room in our wheel wells for lowering 1.2". As these are not off-road vehicles, the loss of 1.2" ground clearance shouldn't be an issue. The parts are not expensive. Don't know how much labor is involved or if it's a DIY job. As RX400h said, an alignment would be needed. Probably also have to check on the possible warranty impact. I just checked the warranty book and it does not preclude the use of non-Lexus parts but it does say that those parts, or any damage resulting from their use, would not be covered. That seems fair. I'm interested in this, it is something I would definitely consider IF it didn't firm up the ride too much. Our Audi S6 had a firm sport suspension, it handled great but it could beat you up on a bumpy road. I'm going to call the dealer and ask if they've ever installed them on any RX's and what it would cost.

"....Our cars are NOT true AWD..." More correctly stated... "Our cars are NOT true 4WD/4X4...." AWD means different things to different people, or more correctly there are literally a MYRIAD of AWD implementations out there in the marketplace. For F/AWD, Front torque biased AWD, (mostly derived from a FWD "base") in the RX300 class, the Acura SH-AWD system is the OUTSTANDING choice. For R/AWD the BMW X3 would be my choice. Apparently the '08 models now have a TC disable and, sequenually, a VSC disable capability> some Toyota model even have an A-LSD capability that allow a significant level of intentional wheelspin. Consumer Reports SUCKS...!! They wouldn't know the truth if it hit them square in the face. Some good points on AWD systems. I've driven the best, Audi and my older Jeep. Have not had the RX400h in the slippery or deep stuff yet. I do not believe there is a way to disconnect traction control, even on our 2008's. But, this car is very new to us and I've only driven it a little and have not read the entire manual (it's huge). I have not noticed a switch that looked like something to disable traction control. In any event, the 400h F/AWD system doesn't come close to real AWD systems. Consumer Reports has an excellent database on auto repair histories. It is solely based on surveys of their members. It is totally objective with no bias on their part. I don't like everything about Consumer Reports, including the way they rate new cars, but their used car reliability reports are excellent.

The RX300-350 AWD is different than the 400, it uses the gas engine power and a transfer case to get power to the rear wheels. The only thing powering the 400 rears is the rear electric motor. That is on when additional power is asked for and apparently if the front wheels are spinning. But in another thread, people talked about getting stuck in some deeper snow, even with winter tires. The traction control system apparently takes over and basically shuts the car down if the wheels are spinning so you can't muscle your way through the deep stuff. Our cars are NOT true AWD. On Consumer Reports list of used cars to avoid, VW has more models on the list than any other manufacturer, including the Toureg. If you want luxury and true AWD, get an Audi allroad or Q7 ('03+, preferably with the 4.2 V8) or a Range Rover. But none of those will be reliable.

Our cars have a pretty cushy ride, obviously the suspension system is not very firm. This IS supposed to be a luxury vehicle and I like the ride. We traded an Audi S6 on the 400h, the Audi had a firm sport suspension. It handled great for a big wagon but it could really beat you up on a bumpy road. I did a quick search. The only thing I found was an Eibach Pro Kit spring set from Tirerack, it lowers the car 1.2" and is probably firmer than stock. I could not find any replacement shocks. One of the most important things we can do is make sure our tire pressure is correct. I just looked at the recommended pressure on the door sticker which is 30#, that seems low to me. I keep the Jeep Grand Cherokee at 34, the BMW 330 at 35-36, and had the Audi S6 at 37.

I don't understand how the seat heater or A/C would cause decreased mileage. Is it because the engine needs to run more to charge the batteries? Our A/C is an electric motor and not driven by the engine. The engine needs to run more in the cold to get to, and stay at, operating temperature. It's also needed to provide heat to the cabin. We're on our 3rd tank of gas, got 27 mpg on the first two and it hasn't been warm here recently, actually a bit cold. The car is primarily used in my wife's commute which is about 20 miles and 40 minutes. I have heard that people with very short commutes, or who typically only do short trips, have not fared as well. She's been thrilled about using the HOV lanes on her commute, reduces drive time significantly.

That's a very good deal.

The 400h doesn't have a "real" AWD system, it's a FWD car with occasional rear wheel assist. It's disappointing to hear that the traction control system will take over and basically shut down if it finds itself in a difficult situation. It must have something to do with protecting the hybrid drive system. They even say in the manual that our cars are NOT designed to go off-road. The Audi S6 I traded would go through almost anything, it didn't have much ground clearance, it just used the front of the car as a plow. My '94 Jeep Grand Cherokee will go almost anywhere in anything, in low range it'll climb trees.