new2mud

Again, you're talking about ALL SEASON TIRES new2, wwest is talking about SUMMER tires.

If you live in an area where you don't get a lot of snow no need to buy winter tires. I don't own winter tires. I don't however openly advocate the use of summer tires in the winter across the board and purport that they are better in the snow than winter tires like wwest does.

Actually, I have used the term all-season tires for benefit of the doubt--anybody with experience with modern dedicated summer compounds knows how squirrelly those tires get on bone dry pavement in the cold. I have dedicated ultra-high performance summer tires on 2 of my cars, and they grip like bubble gum on hot tarmac. However, once temps dip below 40 degrees, you can drift at the drop of the throttle until the tires get some heat in them.

Love that story !!!

Woke up to this crap this morning!! This is how my LS rides in the snow with my Michelin sport Pilots.. Get great traction on the dry concrete in the heated garage...

Doesn't look like it's slipping one bit in there!

Give em 'ell, wwest! I drove on packed snow/ice for the first time this winter with Turanza's, fully expecting the worst(because of the posts). To my surprise it handled

really well. We dont get a lot of snow here(80"/yr) and I really dont want the hassle of changing out tires. So far, no problems.

Actually it's not as binary as it may have come across in this thread. Even in what some in this thread have called a dangerous class of vehicle in snow, I have driven an AWD RX300 with new all-season tires through heavy snowpack and it did just fine.

If your all-season tires are brand new, then they may provide acceptable (to you) performance in limited snow. However, don't get lulled into a false sense of security. Try it again with 15k miles on them and you may have something else to report. Either way, it comes down to what's acceptable performance for you, and that varies with each driver.

For some, all-season tires may provide what they consider acceptable performance through the life of the tire. For me and my family, I place a much higher standard for winter handling characteristics...when I was single, it was a different story.

In which store you can get Toluene very cheap or under what brand? I saw a gallon of the stuff for about 30.00 which I thought was too expensive.

CPR

Now that's the kicker. At $30/gallon, it gets steep quick! Some are able to find it at chemical supply houses for as cheap as $3/gallon in 5-gallon or larger drums.

While this is a worthwhile discussion, why are you wanting to run toluene in your LS? 91 octane is just fine for the LS, especially if you're at altitude.

Good to hear someone is using it. you must be running about 95-96 octane in the end right. how much ATF do you think should be added, mabe 1/8qt for a full tank of gas mixed with the toluene?

yeah, i know its alot more effective, off shelf boosters only raise in small points. like take 91 octane and add off shelf booster and you only end up with like 91.7 or somthing like that while the same amount of straight toluene can take it to 93 or 94. I was just being sort of lazy in the post.

Almost--the same amount of straight toluene will only get you about as much gain as the OTS stuff (i.e. 2-3 points, or from 92 octane to 92.3 octane), since they use mostly toluene, but in much lower quantities than is effective. Remember: 10% toluene added to 92 octane will get you to 94.2, and 20% will get you to 96.4. (Toluene's RON octane rating is 121). But that's 2-4 gallons per tank. Keep in mind that you probably don't want to go much beyond 10% as that may get you outside the ASTN specs for gasoline.

As for extra lubrication, 2-3 oz of ATF per gallon of toluene should do it, but it's not always necessary.

Calipers (which were reasonably responsible for all of the damage from day one) are being ordered (also under warranty) and should come in and be installed tomorrow.

Were your calipers seized/sticking?

Tires, we don't need no stinkin tires!

Now a treaded LS--that would be the way to get through the white stuff!

I searched the forum and found some posts awhile back about it, but no one actually said if they really tried it, and if they did, what were the results.

I kinda looked it up a bit and figure since its $3 a gal its cheaper than gas, and has a higher octane rating. but it is a poor form of fuel in cold weather.

but assuming my tank in my 91 ls400 is a 22.5 gal tank. and every 10% toluene mixture is 2.2 RON. this is way cheaper than the octane booster at the parts store and more than 2x effective. every 2.5 gal in my tank would be 2.2 octane points.

91octane gas with 15gal of toluene in the tank=60% mixture and comes out to 104.2 octane. F1 cars run on 102 octane.

So ? Is... Is this a bad idea... what do you all think.

Nevermind the naysayers who haven't actually done this. Toluene is proven, and effective. I have not had reason to use it in my LS, but I mix it up to 10% on a high-boost street motor on another car.

BTW, you're wrong--it's not 2x more effective than the off the shelf octane boosters--it is way more effective. I don't know how those products are able to get away with advertising the claimed octane boosts--most of them contain toluene, and in those small quantities found on the shelf, well....you do the math.

If you're concerned about seals and lubrication, a common trick is to add a bit of ATF to your toluene 'brew'.

I love both my 02 LS-430 and my 99 SC-300, but I have to say that they are probably the worst cars I've ever driven in the snow and ice. My gosh! Dangerous!!

EZ--welcome to the forums.

Yes, the RWD LS and SC can be hairy on slick surfaces--however, I live in an area that gets OVER 350 inches every year, and I drive my LS everyday in the winter. With proper dedicated winter tires and a little weight in the trunk, I can tread where AWD vehicles with all-season tires get stuck.

When I see winter specialty tires being tested successfully against summer tires on an ice skating rink then, and only then, will I become a believer.

Believe it or not, there actually have been independent tests done in ice rinks (beyond the commercials or ads that were referred to above)--a quick search should uncover one.

I believe Tire Rack also did an independent (brand-agnostic) test--the results were surprising, with some of the best non-studded winter tires performing similarly (or better) than studded tires on ice, and of course much better in less adverse conditions where studs greatly reduce braking ability and cornering traction on dry or merely wet (not frozen) road conditions.

That's exactly the situation where you want the best tire you can get. You can prepare for the snow you see on the road or coming down in a snow storm or the rain on the road, but black ice is invisible and it will bite your !Removed!. The only defence against it besides good tires is to ocassionaly check the grip you have by gently rocking your steering from side to side and to listen to the weather forecasts.

Yikes! Please don't test traction with steering--I'd hate to hear of someone doing that and wind up in the ditch or worse. If your car is equipped with ABS (i.e. all LS400s) then wait until you are on a straight stretch of road, check to make sure nobody is behind you, and jab the brakes with firm pressure, but not enough to wildly upset the balance of the car (in the event that road conditions are indeed slick). If ABS kicks in, then you know where your limit is. If you are truly on black ice, then you will get ABS response with VERY little pedal effort!

So, did you find that the Nokians were just noisy in the summer? Why did you choose to switch out in the summer. Just curious.

I had Nokians on a previous car. Worked great in the snow but thought they were perhaps a bit noisier that summer tires.

Landar--my switch to the dedicated summer set was for aesthetics (the 19s). While the WRs are slightly louder than good all-seasons, it is not anywhere near a howl that could characterize some dedicated winter tires. Now keep in mind that I would not recommend leaving just any Nokian (or other winter tires for that matter) for summer use--only the WR series. As mentioned before, they are a slight compromise down from the top tier winter tires (including other Nokian winter tires) when the road gets really slick, with the added benefit of not having to swap out every season. While some may say that since I went with dedicated summer set that I lose that advantage, keep in mind that the WR also has great tread wear rating, so I am confident with the WRs in taking the family on long trips during the "transition seasons" where I may or may not encounter snow, without fear of the greatly advanced wearing of tread on dry pavement that would happen on most other dedicated snow tires. So its still an all-around benefit to me, even though I own dedicated summer tires/wheels.

As for the summer tire/winter tire debate, I just want to make sure that bad advice taken here doesn't wind up getting an inexperienced driver hurt in the slippery stuff in their LS.

I don't know how many on this thread have actually driven their LS with all-season, or worse with dedicated summer performance tires (without chains) extensively on snowpack, ice, and slush, but it's downright hairy without TC, and merely hairy even with TC. There is absolutely no comparison in driving the LS in winter conditions with dedicated winter tires. Anybody offering opinions without actually having driven an LS400 (I'm not talking about general FWD/AWD/RWD here--specifically talking about the LS) with and without winter tires is speaking purely from conjecture. I don't mean to discredit you WWEST--I value many of your other opinions on this board, but strongly disagree with your opinions on this particular topic.

I will not belabor this topic anymore, but if it makes just 1 person reconsider using summer performance tires in the snow, then it's worth it.

Thanks MArlon, I meant defrost as in the elctrical rear window defrost, although i am sure i can find it... Being in the COLD part of canada, the remote start is more for winter than it is for summer ;) But I do know to set my heater before leaving the vehicle as my other car has remote start.

Just follow the defrost wire from behind the HVAC control unit and tap into that--needs a negative trigger to arm the rear window defrost.

Not sure if you'll find the info you're looking for, but here's a site with some wiring info for your car:

http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/vehicl...eard/Lexus.html

Are you sure you want to do this? With possibility of false alarms and non starts? I'm not familiar with the Designtech, but I know someone who had an AstrStart: http://www.astroflex.com/index.php?module=...amp;newlang=eng

which is supposedly a high end unit and apparently problem free. From what I've heard, you have to know what you're doing to connect the wires exactly and program the unit correctly. There are plenty of mechanics making a living correctling bad installations. Hope this helps. Let us know how you do.

Every online source I tried had the wrong color codes for the arm/disarm wires.

Here's how to test for the correct one:

with key in driver's side door, use an instantaneous voltage checker (the kind with the light bulbs)--the digital ones are too slow. Then probe wires in that door bundle until the proper ones ground when the key is turned to lock and then unlock. These are your wires of interest.

I wish I had recorded which wires were the correct ones when I was doing this!

When you say "it does not matter much to me because the new alarm works great and protects everything" are you sure that includes imobilizing the engine?

Yes! This new system comes with a starter kill relay and I can't even turn the car on with my key when the alarm is "armed". Also, I tried unpluging the "new" alarm and then the factory anti-theft light comes on. So, I am guessing it is normal for the factory alarm to be disabled with this new system. And if someone tries to rip this system up (which would take a while because we all know it's not so easy to get into the under dash of this car) then they still have the factory anti-theft to deal with.

But, I want to double check with other members who have a remote starter/alarm system installed and see if their factoy alarms work together with their new systems or not. This is my first alarm install and I may be wrong and they are both supposed to work.....and I want to make sure.

Aftermarket alarms/remote starts work just fine...you need to have a system that provides for a factory arm/disarm trigger from the main brain (I think all DEI's have this, as do most others). These triggers then tap into the car's arm/disarm wires, found in the bundle coming from the driver's door into the cabin.

From the linked reference..:

"..Their Adaptive Progressive Stiffness (APS) rubber technology allows the unique compound to soften at the road's surface, while remaining ridgid near the tire belt, thus providing intense grip and superior handling in all winter road conditions --- even on dry roads."

Hmmm..."'superior handling" "even on dry roads."

So tell me, why would any tire manufacturer reserve such a formulation ONLY for winter tires..??

Or do they...??!!

Since the idea is to sell the public on buying winter tires why would the manufacturers tell us if the same "superior handling" rubber formulations aren't available for summer only tires?

I'm not by any means saying that winter tires shouldn't be used in climates where adverse wintertime roadbed conditions are the rule of the day, season.

And finally:

"superior handling" "even on dry roadbeds"...

Even on dry roadbeds...In comparison to what? Certainly not my "poorly" formulated summer tires. Were that the case why not run on winter tires all year around.

The "superior handling" I'm quite certain is not in reference to comparisons against dedicated performance summer tires, but compared against the squishiness often associated with winter tires. There is no way any winter tire could ever claim to be comparable to the dry summer performance of a summer tire--too many tradeoffs to be made on compound, tread design, etc.

While I've not tried these tires--wonder if they're also claiming these as all-weather a la Nokian WR...would need to know what the treadwear life is like.

new2mud, I was under the impression from post #21 ("I've got them on my car, firsthand experience. It is summer now, and the smooth ride is, well,... smooth!") that you ran Noks all year round. No? What make are your summer/winter tires?

Landar--I now run 19s in the summer, so the Nokians on stock wheels are back to dedicated winter duty.

And just when was the last time you looked into rubber compounds of winter specialty tires vs summer tire compounds...??

Twenty or so years ago, or certainly even more, your statement would be correct, winter specialty tires had differing formulation for the rubber. But competition has now run its course and since those specialty tires didn't cover many miles when compared to summer tires the winter formulation technique has been dropped in favor of the winter times having mileage ratings equal to their summer counterpart.

As an example back in the sixties if your winter tires outlated the season you considered yourself lucky. Nowadays if the mileage achieved is at least close to taht of a summer counterpart its NO SALE.

If those winter formulations were still available, and available for my summer type tire treads, I would willingly consider switching each fall and spring.

You have been misinformed on modern tires. No way is the compound the same between winter and summer tires, with the possible exception of Bridgestone's awful practice of having the 2nd half of the Blizzaks a regular summer compound, effectively only giving you 1/2 the winter tire you paid for.

Nobody I know here in the mountains expects winter tire life to equal that of an all-season tire. There is a reason that people around here either run dedicated summer and dedicated winter tires and swap them out or just run the Nokian WR, and that reason isn't "everybody falls for the marketing hype"--modern winter tires truly make a huge difference over summer or even "all-season" tires.

While those willing to put on chains over their summer tires will get through the snowpack and ice just fine, the reality is that very few people under the age of 50 even know how to put chains on.

Again, my intent is not to start a flame war, since WWEST has an awful lot of experience and good advice on this board. However, suggesting that people can get superior snow performance on summer tires (without chains) is just plain dangerous.

Actually, if you think about a bit more deeply, my summer tires will often have MORE traction, more CONTACT surface area, than ANY highly "siped", or "blocked" tread, winter tire. Your winter tires will be advantagous only if the roadbed surface has some "looseness".

So, 99% of the time on dry, wet, icy, or packed snow my summer tires will OUTSHINE your winter tires.

Wow, WWEST--you normally have some really good wisdom here, but the comment above is flat out dangerous.

Sure, summer tires may have more contact surface area, but the compound makes all the difference in the world, and any summer tire is patently dangerous in any icy, snowy, or even cold conditions. Summer tires are made of a softer compound, that while excellent in warmer, drier weather, gets very hard in colder temps--even on dry roads in cold weather, summer tires suffer traction greatly.

I don't know what magical summer tires you have that you claim "outshining" winter tires, but in cold weather, whether dry, wet, icy, packed snow, or fresh snow, summer tires are far inferior to dedicated snow tires. Period.

I live in an area where we get 90+ degrees in the summer and over 350 inches of snow per winter. It would only take you 1 drive on summer tires in the winter to swap them out immediately for dedicated snow tires. I run ultra high-performance summer tires in the summer, but when temps drop, I run dedicated winter tires. The LS400 is a real handful (and dangerous) on the summer tires in winter, and plows through anything winter can throw at it when running dedicated snow tires (combined with TRAC).

Excellent work, David.

You have a true 'steal'--that will likely last you another 200k miles. Congrats!

I run BFG Traction T/A V's on my 400. Only driven a couple of times in any snow with them but they get pretty good traction. My car doesn't have TC but it does have a wicked positraction. Growing up near Lake Ontario where we often received over 480" of snow a winter, I learned to enjoy psotraction in snow. Sure it makes the back end get squirilly when you get on it, but it does dig in. I think positraction in snow can definitely scare those who are unfamiliar with winter driving but once learn it, it is a blast.

AFAIK, LS400 weren't available from the factory with LSD--did you do some sort of retrofit/aftermarket?

I had the same problem as you.

Remove ect fuse for an hour to reset computer. Then jump Tc and E1 points on ODB diagnose under the parking brake lever. Press brake more than 8 times in 3 sec to reset trac. Just keep tapping fast and it will reset.

That solved it for me.

I had already done the ecu reset and ODB jump/clearing the codes. It came right back on the first drive (after a few minutes).

I did a complete fluid flush including TRAC actuator and accumulator this past weekend--haven't been able to drive it long enough for it to come back on--will hope that solved it, as it has for some others.

i replaced ball joints without changing the arm, it only took like 2 hours for both sides. there is no need to change the arm unless your bushings are really bad.

Depends on the model year--can't change only the upper balljoint without replacing the entire UCA on 1990-1994.

Anyone else with experience?

I'll do a complete brake fluid flush (+ trac flush) today and see if that helps.