jainla

Disappointed to report that the Silver one with Exec seating was pulled from the auction last minute and the gold one just now ran and sold for $17,400 on the block. I probably could have snagged it for $17,600-$17,800 as it appeared other bidders were running out of gas but it's just more than I wanted to spend on that color and with that many miles.

Back to the hunt...*sigh*

That's a drag. I'm sure the silver one is on it's way to Asia...

Sometimes you have to reset the VSC system after engine maintenance; I had to do it after they replaced an oxygen sensor.

You'll need a paper clip and it's best to park the car on a level surface. You have to shove it into 2 ports on the connector under the dash.

Here's the thread:

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/topic/55589-diy-01-ls430-code-p0135-oxygen-sensor-bank-one-sensor-1/

Let us know if this solves the issue.

-J

Nice to hear at 133k miles the LS still feels like a tank. I'm not quite there yet. Blacked out rims? Gold Trim? It's gold; if you can't fix it, feature it! I'd forgotten how nice the brown looks with the light interior; they also had a dark brown option with white leather; I can't tell if this car has that or the standard wood.

The DVD remote with the silver car is not the correct one for that year; it may be a later model or aftermarket (or Toyota brand) substitute. Rest of the car looks nice though.

Both look like good choices; I don't think you can go wrong either way.

J,

First off, thank you for your reply. It's beyond kind of you to take the time out of your day to craft such a meaningful and helpful response and I sincerely appreciate that.

You'll find us generally more helpful and less fanboy-ish than the BMW folks. Or the guys at that 'other' forum.

The vehicle that I'm looking at isn't on Cars.com. I'm actually a dealer and am looking at this vehicle through wholesale channels. This isn't for resale, this will be my own personal vehicle.

The information you provided is precisely what I was looking for. And thankfully, nothing that you mentioned even comes close to what you'll read on the E65/E66 forums for BMW 7 series owners. The build quality of those cars is downright shameful.

I fully intend to be driving an LS 460 or 460L within the next 30 days. I've been without a personal vehicle for the last 45 and my wear bars are starting to squeak!

My options are limited through wholesale channels and if you get picky about colors and features in the auction system, you'll find yourself standing around waiting for quite a while. It would be much easier if I could just open up a browser and start searching for exactly what I need. But I'll save a minimum of $5,000 and possibly as much as $9,000 buying it this way. I just don't have the time and quite frankly the desire to fly across the country to look at a vehicle. That's probably the dealer in me, because I know if there's something I don't like I can turn it back at a local auction or put it on the lot. Either way it's a win/win. But I really want to make an intelligent decision after the 745Li blunder.

My brother has (had) an E66 BMW. He'll never buy another one again.

The LS is a different league. At the LS460 launch the exec claimed that a 5 year old LS is more reliable than a brand new car of either of it's German competitors. I have to say from personal experience it seems to be true.

The primary issue (complaint) with these cars is usually noise of some kind. The LS is an extremely quiet car and the owners complaints are usually noise focused; most of the TSBs are to ameliorate or reduce creaking, clacking, etc.

Re; the auction/dealer angle it makes more sense now. It's probably in a shed somewhere; with no light, no air, no road to run on. Sad.

The LWB cars are harder to find; and if you're limited to what's about to go on the block then you are up to the whims of who's traded in that week. I don't remember the exact split but I would venture to guess that there are only about 30% of the LS cars were sold in the L variation. LS owners tend to hold onto their cars longer; and the end of lease-buyout rates are among the highest in the segment. People love these cars. I fully intended to sell the LS430 when I bought the new one; I just registered it for another year.

The other one that I'm looking at is Silver with light gray interior (not preferred) but it has that dark charcoal colored 'wood' accent which looks nice with the color combo. I probably wouldn't be interested if it weren't for the rear entertainment, table and good Lord the reclining seat. Shut up and take my money already! The Silver one is in CA and to my surprise much more loaded than the black one. The black one is a 2008 and the silver is a 2007. I'm pretty torn but hopefully I'll gain some clarity in the next 2 days. If not, I'll miss 'em, because they're both slated for the auction block this week.

The Lexus silver is really nice; it doesn't show dirt nearly as much as the darker colors do (although the black paint is easy to polish). I almost bought a silver one about 6 months ago.

The dark grey wood is actually Bird's Eye Maple (instead of the standard walnut) and it's spectacular; the depth and detail are amazing and it looks almost like granite in person. My LS430 has it stained in a cranberry red color (Bordeaux) and it's the most amazing wood I've ever seen. The Walnut in the other cars is also fantastic (better than MB walnut) but not as distinctive. The maple came in a birch color for the later LS430s but the 460 it's only in grey (which was also available in the 01-03 430 models).

Ah the Exec Seating package. My hybrid has it and it's truly as ridiculous (and fabulous) as it seems; but it's all for your friends and not for you. The DVD screen blocks the rear view; and most people forget to turn it off so I'm constantly deactivating it after they leave. The fridge also holds 6 of the small Arrowhead water bottles but there's a empty space behind them so they rattle around sometimes. And the ottoman doesn't really work if you're more than 6'2" tall without completely folding up the front seat. It adds more weight; and the fridge and massage seats impinge on trunk space. First world problems.

The guy at the service desk said when they get an LS with the Exec seating package in on trade they can pretty much count about 4 hours from the time it goes on the web to the time a Chinese broker calls them about the car; they are particularly popular in Asia.

Quick note, there is an '07 460 at the local auction with great mileage and a stellar condition report...but it's GOLD. Aye. No offense to anyone who owns a gold one, but it isn't my cup of Earl Grey lol.

Again, thanks a lot for your time J. I owe you one.

-E

No problem. We're here to help.

The gold is nice but I think it actually suits the older (90-00) cars better. Silver and Black are popular for the L models; my favorite is the dark grey which is rarer. The red is actually quite nice, but it's red so you have to want that.

I remember shopping for LS Ls the 460s come in a greater variation of options; the hybrid generally is loaded or very loaded. I waited about 15 months for the exact car I wanted to come around; and it's the only one in that option/color combination I have ever seen anywhere; that's why I was willing to go to such great lengths to acquire it.

I'd say good luck; but again I think even the worst LS is probably better than the best BMW of the same vintage.

Let us know what you end up with.

Sight unseen I would probably lean towards the '08 but the '07 with exec seating would probably be easy to flip if you went that way. That package was a $12k special order option for the first series of these cars so it's pretty hard to find.

Just wait for the Asian brokers to call...

-J

I just went through this when I bought my LSh a couple months back. Looked at the photos; hemmed and hawed, and finally bit the bullet and flew to Dallas for the day (literally) to drive it.

I'm glad I did. The photos looked good but getting there revealed a few cosmetic issues that I didn't see on the net; and also calmed my nerves about what looked like scratches or scuffs were really dust and dirt. Also I could drive the car and listen for the common issues that the early LS460/600hs are prone to.

I ended up buying the car but I was able to have them take care of a bunch of minor things (melted trunk switch, scratched rear logo, little leather dings inside) that would have really irritated me had the car shown up in LA and I hadn't known about them. I booked the ticket about 48 hours before the flight; it was $500 that I'm very glad I spent.

That said, on an '08 there shouldn't be that many issues. There were a couple teething issues on the '07 cars but by '08 they seem to be mostly ironed out.

Just so you know most LWB cars have the power rear seats and the ML sound system (I think it was standard). Also some have upgraded rear packages with rear seat radio controls, 4 zone climate control, power rear side window sun shades, and a cool box. Black on black is not exactly a rare color combination for the LS so I wouldn't feel pressured to buy something unless you need a car right this second (which it sounds like you might).

I see a car similar to the one you describe on cars.com; and from the photos I don't see anything horribly wrong. You can do more searches on this (and the other) forum; but a couple things to look out for from early LSs of the XF40 variety:

Front Control Arms: the front suspensions of these cars are more complex than the earlier XF30 cars; they have six control arms (3 per side). Bushings in early models have the tendency to crack; dealers tend to replace the whole thing. Expensive; but an indie shop may be cheaper. You can hear a clunking if you go over bumps at low speed. I think this was largely resolved by '08.

Brake Actuator: some of them make a clacking noise when brakes are applied; remedy is to replace the actuator (this is expensive). Also there are a bunch of software updates for the braking system for a couple minor issues. Problem in some '07 and '08 cars.

Engine: there is a recall out for a few Toyota engines from this timeframe for valve springs (they can crack); any dealer can tell you if the recall has been done from the VIN number; and I think a dealer would probably still honor it but I would double check. It might show up on Carfax (mine did). The UR engines have a timing chain (not belt) so that expensive maintenance item is no longer a concern.

Transmission: generally durable but there is a software update floating around to correct some clunking noises that people complained about.

ML Amp: these can die on occasion but not too common; there are places on the internet that repair them for a couple hundred bucks.

Air Suspension: the big one on any LS. The air springs and shocks are a single unit; so if one goes they both go; and they need to be replaced in pairs. The suspensions don't usually fail but when they do it's about $900 a shock plus an hour of labor to replace; so make sure the car doesn't sink into it's suspension overnight. If you see the 'Sport/ Comfort' and 'Height Hi' switches on the left side of the dash below the gear selector your car has it. Toyota seems to be improving the air suspension with each generation; but on a higher mileage car this is something to look out for.

Wind Noise: there is a little plastic triangle on the front windows that sometimes leaks; there is a documented fix on this and other forums on how to remove and seal this. I think my car has it but I haven't bothered to address it yet.

That's it as far as I know for the big ones. And then some other random tidbits:

Drivers side armrest; I've seen these wear a little but but the LWB cars seem to have the leather versions rather than the synthetic ones. Lexus leather generally wears very well.

Leather and plastics: in the Southwest the sun tends to dry these out; good detailing products will generally return them to near-new condition but if the car sits outside for long periods of time this can be annoying. The quality of the semi-aniline leather in particular is extraordinary; and the wood trim is the best I've seen outside a Rolls Royce. The Alcantara headliner is also easy to care for and wears well.

Tires: the 19" wheels have high performance tires that wear quickly. Also high-friction brake pads on the Touring Package cost more and last less than the standard ones.

Nav: the 07+ have HD based which means you pretty much have to have the dealer update; no cheap upgrades on ebay for this one.

None of the above should scare you off. I have two Mercedes from the pre-1992 era (which are generally regarded as indestructible) and the Lexus LS meets or exceeds their build quality in almost every area.

The reliability is no contest; these are (generally) very hardy, very durable cars. I've had my '01 LS430 for 9 years and have really had nothing aside from general maintenance, a couple 02 sensors, and a MAF sensor go out over that time. All the toys still work; it still sails through the DMV smog check.

Also many of the smaller (and more annoying) issues have documented DIY fixes here and on other forums that save time and money over going to the dealer. Provided you do regular maintenance the engine and transmission seem almost indestructible.

Obviously get a Carfax report; and if you can at all fly down and see the car before you pull the trigger. If you are picky about autos you'll want to see, touch and feel the car before you take it home. Investigate an aftermarket warranty; but generally I think you'd be ok without one.

You can also pay $10 and get an account for the day at https://techinfo.toyota.com and see what TSBs were issued and if your car might be subject to them (they list affected VINs). Also if you call most Lexus Dealers and give them the VIN they can pull up the dealer service history which is always nice to see (they can tell you if the car had the valve spring and any other recalls, for example).

That said, I think the LS is probably the ONLY car of this class that I would even consider buying sight unseen with a reasonably high level of confidence.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

-J

You're correct. The 'drain' plug only empties half the fluid; during the drain and refill the normal service is to replace half; not all.

Obviously if you've dropped the pan then all of it has to come out; so like curiousB said if 3.5qt came out put that amount back in.

The dipstick at least can tell you if you're high or low.

I've had this issue for a couple years in my LS430 and haven't gotten around to addressing it. Toyota only sells the entire assembly; which is ~$200 for the standard door and ~$600 for the easy closer. I have the easy closer so I'm not that excited to spend $600 to replace a $10 motor.

I believe this may be the motor:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111198111739?var=410228409590

It's the Mabuchi motor that most people use but the difficulty seems to be getting the actual shaft to match up; the one we need has to have a D shaped shaft. The thing that actually dies is the brushes in the motor; so if it doesn't fit you can always take the dead motor apart and use the shaft in the new housing, or transfer the brushes or whatever.

The easy close actuator has 2 motors; the lock motor and the one that runs the easy closer. I believe from what I've seen on the net that the locking motor is the same; but you'll have to open it up to confirm.

I've heard from other posters that they open up the door actuator and the motor is fine but the contacts are dirty; and also sometimes opening up the actuator you'll find other bits (electrical contacts, etc fried). So I'd have the motor on hand but YMMV.

There are a couple other posts on the topic including how to take apart the door and what the actuator looks like; so do some searching before you tear apart the car.

Let us know how it goes.

-J

How old is the battery? I've heard that batteries on the verge of death will cause the cars electrical voltage to drop; causing all sorts of issues. If you aren't seeing more than 12v across the terminals (I think you want it to be like 13.8) then it may be time for a new battery.

i drove the previous generation Highlander Hybrid at the auto show a couple years ago; it's a nice car. That said, a former colleague had a non-hybrid 4 cylinder one and at low speeds it seemed almost (but not quite) as quiet. It's not quite as nice as the RX (as one might expect); and the interior materials are not quite Lexus grade. The 3rd seat is also kind of small but not as much of a joke as the Q7 or X5. But you should drive it and see if it's up to snuff.

Remember that the Highlander Hybrid AWD (and Lexus RXh) are primarily FWD. the AWD is electric and primarily active at low speeds. For most city driving in this day and age I would think FWD with traction control would suffice; but if you drive frequently in deep snow (or mud) then AWD is certainly nice to have. The LS and LSh have mechanical AWD.

Back to OT I've driven both the LS and LSh a few times; and liked both immensely. I drove both cars back to back at TOL a few years ago; here are my thoughts.

The LSh and GSh drive is completely different than any other car I've driven; and I've been in quite a few Priuses and RX's as well as having driven my mom's (erstwhile) Camry Hybrid up and down the east coast. The engines and motors are powerful enough that there is no motorboating; and in the LS the engine note is so subdued that you don't hear much of anything except near the redline. They are both deceptive (and almost Tesla like) in their quickness. I think the LS carries it off the best; it's quieter, more plush and the extra weight is less of an issue than the GSh.

I drove a 2008 LSh in Santa Monica last year. These cars seem to age remarkably well; they are built like iron and drive much to my memory from the 2008 TOL. They are extremely rare however. At any one time there are about 30-40 for sale in the entire country; and as the sales figures for 2010 onward dropped off dramatically they will become even rarer.

The LS460 is in many ways a more practical car; it's cheaper, has more cargo space, and weighs less. There are many more to choose from in the pre-owned market. But it lacks the certain je ne sais quoi of the 600h. The LSh's I have seen all seem to be (almost) fully loaded; while the LS has more variations in features and options. If i see one come up in Smokey Granite Mica in SoCal somewhere I might bite.

The 4GS though is an amazing car. I've taken car shopping friends out and all have been really impressed; had my friend not driven the S4 immediately afterwards (and my other friend been fixated on the A6 diesel) I think they would have bitten. Easily superior to the E or the 5 series. The 10k premium for the hybrid scared everybody off however; but the GS350 is really a nice piece of kit. And it comes in AWD.

I agree the original 16" wheels look chinsy. I think for 16"s the 1995 era ones are my favorite; especially if you get the matte/chrome blended ones.

The 7 spoke 17" alloys are much better; they are in fact I think my favorites on the LS430. I briefly considered upgrading to an '06 and would probably have taken those wheels with me. The Gen II 17"s are a little less nice; the 18"s I think sometimes look gawky.

17"s are a good choice; as the rest of the rubber bits in the suspension age I notice the ride getting a little firmer. I think with 18"s it would be rock hard by now.

I'm not a fan of 16s on the LS430. They look fine on the LS400, but the LS430 has a bigger body look, and the 16s really look small on it IMHO. I also really dislike that original 16" wheel, I think the later painted adaptations of the 00 LS Platinum wheel looked better.

Really and truly though, going from the 18s just to 17s will help the ride a lot. My Dad had a 98 LS400 and went to an 04 LS430 with 17s and the 430 rode incredibly. Both the cars had air suspension. I noticed the cars with the 18s don't ride as well when I was shopping for a CPO 06 LS. Oddly enough the LS460 rides better on 18s than the LS430.

If you get a set of the 17" wheels with Michelin Primacy MXV4 tires, it will ride as good as your son's 98.

Any timing chain has a definite life to it. I replaced the timing chain in my Mercedes diesel at about 150k miles, and my 560 has a 'known' issue where the timing chain and guides have to be replaced every 100k miles or so. These are 20+ year old designs though so YMMV.

I don't know if the chains are any easier/harder to replace in the UR engines than the timing belts in the UZ engines. For the record having a belt snap is extremely rare; usually it's the water pump that dies and takes the whole works with it. Aramid fiber belts are pretty strong.

-J

PS ..Jim is correct-- the early 3.8 liter MB engine series had single row timing chains and manual tensioners. Provided they were adjusted regularly the engine lasts a long time; but many weren't (interference engine + snapped chain = $6000 valve job). Later engines had double row chains with automatic tensioners; I heard of more than a few 380s that were retrofitted with the newer cam drives.

Try the front sway (roll) bar bushings/cushions. My car was making a crunching/creaking noise and my mechanic lubricated them and it went away; although it has returned now they may need to be replaced.

-J

+1 with not doing used struts. If new is $900 and used is $600 it's a no brainer. Parts.com also has them for ~$900 but I'm sure the shipping is steep.

My mechanic said last year that one of my front ones was leaking oil; I've procrastinated but I think before the end of the summer I'm going to just shell out the $1800 and replace them. Labor to replace the struts is minimal; I think my guy quoted me 2 hours.

There have been stories about aftermarket companies but the only one (Arnott) has a bad reputation and stocks nothing for the LS430; you'd think with all the cars in this segment with air suspensions someone would fill the gap.

Replacing all the air struts with OEM parts is interesting; but I fear the labor involved might make it prohibitively expensive. Reviews of the other kits vary.

All that said; this is (usually) the only pricey gotcha with these cars and if it means I get another 4-5 years out of the car I think it's worth it.

60k is mostly a fluid flush for the LS; so check brake, steering fluids, transmission etc. They should be reasonably clean. Brakes as needed; cabin filter, etc.

If a dealer did it it should be in the system; but I don't know if independent shops have access to it or not.

Jim's right; 2010 (Gen 6 Nav) was the first BT streaming option for almost all Toyota/Lexus cars.

You can either get the Vaistech box and piggyback a BT receiver on it, or possibly fit one of the Parrot BT kits: www.parrot.com. There is a harness at www.quickconnectproducts.com/ that supposedly fits the car.

The Parrot MKi kits have a very nice iPhone/iPod interface that also does BT streaming and adds an aux input as well (some of them also have an SD card reader). You can use the Phone functionality of the kit instead of the built in Bluetooth if you want; the voice dial is much better and (I think) it will be Siri compatible.

I have the MKi kit in another car and the older Parrot 3200LS kit with the Vaistech ipod box in the Lexus; and honestly I just commissioned my old iPod classic as the 'LexPod;' it just lives in the car. Pulling the phone out to stream the BT is enough of a PITA that I almost never bother to do it; but I listen to the Ipod all the time.

The grills to the right and left are air vents. The subwoofer is the only speaker on the parcel shelf. The rear midrange speakers are all in the rear doors.

I forgot; this might also help:

http://www.lextreme.com/ascon.html

Strutmasters is pretty reputable but I've never ordered anything from them. Stay away from Arnott many people have said their customer service is terrible. I think the Strutmasters springs are pre-compressed so they are easier to install.

Last I remember the air shocks were about $800 a piece on parts.com. They are very easy to install for the fronts, a little less so for the rears. Everybody who has done the conversion says the ride is different; some people think it's better, some worse.

My mechanic noticed one of the struts leaking on the front of the LS and I've been putting off replacing it as the airbags are still ok. I'm probably going to just bite the bullet and replace the two front shocks sometime this summer.

There is a connector under the trunk floor on the right hand side that patches it into the sound system. The directions are on page 26 of the second document; basically you'll unplug the LL system from the stereo and unpower it. It won't talk to you anymore but the buttons will not light or nor will the memo feature work as the whole system will be unpowered.

I think i was able to silence the warning by turning it down all the way with the volume rocker but I've long since learned to just ignore it when the car starts. I have fantasies of cannibalizing one of the new OnStar mirror modules and figuring out a way to wire it into the existing LL system buttons but alas too many projects too little time.

I believe there was an issue with the LS430 where some kind of metallic interaction with the heat shield and exhaust pipe could cause pinprick holes in the exhaust. You might want to search this forum and see if you can find the post. I think someone figured out an inexpensive fix.

Never forget that the dealer also sells new(er) cars, so he's got a vested interest in having you change cars every few years.

+1 on finding a reputable independent mechanic. In my experience Indy mechanics are not only cheaper but better at caring for older cars. Most dealership maintenance departments are used to seeing fairly new cars, and most of their work is under warranty (i.e. paid for by Toyota), so their first inclination will be to replace parts instead of trying to rebuild or otherwise revive them. Also feel free to ask around here; many of us have figured out inexpensive DIY fixes for minor problems.

The LS430 is a pretty sturdy design; and unless you have the air suspension there isn't that much difference maintenance wise between it and the Camry of that era. Some of the parts will be more expensive but by and large the car's basic maintenance needs are not that exotic. The engine and transmission are almost indestructible with regular maintenance.

Of course you might want to run the numbers based on how much you drive every year, but if you like the car and there's nothing horribly wrong with it long term it's probably cheaper to keep it. Yes it may thousand dollar you every once in a while but a) you'll have no car payment and b) it will be cheaper to insure than a new car.

The MML should do the job:

http://www.vaistech.com/dev/mml.php

They also have an ML+ but with the IPhone5 it's being phased out (about to be replaced) I think.

I don't know about Jim but I can tell the difference between 160k and 320k AAC files on my ipod with their other unit; although it could just be that the audio was mastered poorly to begin with. I have some Apple Lossless files that sound pretty good, so YMMV.

TOYXMV6 sounds like it's not a Vaistech product. I've had one of their SLI units in my car for 5-6 years and it works almost flawlessly. I'd give them a call maybe you have the wrong cable.

I've always had good luck with the Sonus leather products; they are pretty mild. They may be woolite in a plastic bottle for all I know.

For the gunk in the pores you might just try a good vacuum cleaner. I have a couple specks of something in the back seat (I think it's glitter) that I've just left alone.

I tried the leatherique a couple weeks ago. i think the Lexus leather is coated, or just not that porous because most of the leatherique just sat on top of the leather. The perforated part was a bit better because the holes allowed the liquid to soak in. It did help a bit (I was using it on the tops of the rear seat and headrests that have become stiff over time) but maybe try using less than they recommend. I have the semi-aniline leather though so YMMV.

Replaced trunk struts with the Amazon ones about a year ago. The rasping sound should go away with use; or I don't really notice it anymore. They had gotten pretty bad; the trunk wouldn't really stay open unless you fully pushed it open; and then it was iffy.

Now I can literally open it with one finger. it doesn't pop open like the german ones but it's much better. Definitely worth the investment.

+1 on the primacys. Much better grip in the wet and quieter than the Toyos the car came with. Sometimes you'll find them at Costco or someone's having a sale somewhere.