nc211

Yeah, good luck! This would be like all of the SUV owners out there two years ago trying to sue the oil companies for the price of gas killing the SUV value..... At the end of the day, the market sets the fair price. The market being you and I. The more educated the market, the more fair the price. If the market wishes to believe all toyotas are worthless now because of this, then that is a dangerously uneducated market place. However, if you're a wise buyer, it's a good time to use this as leverage on a better price, assuming the seller buys into this as well. I used the whole gas prices argument when I bought our V8 4runner, and it worked perfectly. $4 a gallon with the perception of $250/barrell prices coming any minute = leverage for an SUV buyer. when the sheep go left, go right.

I don't think they're there yet though. A perfect example would be a brand new ford mustang convertible. I rented one in Vegas, has a whopping 400 miles on it. V6 engine, leather, etc. Granted, it drove alright for what it is. But, I couldn't help to think to myself "why would anyone buy a new one of these, when they could buy a used Solero for less money that drives 100x's better across the board?" The ford was buzzy, busy, and uncomfortable beyond belief. It didn't rattle though, but again, it was brand new. I really wanted to like it too, and went into the experience with an open mind and odds in it's favor. No doubt the quality has improved tremendously, but... nowhere close to a car 5 years older. I'm basing this on the fact that my folks have an older solero convt that I've driven quite a few times, and stunned at it's quality. But, this does tie into what you're saying as well, with Toyota's offerings over the past few years....

I didn't read that entire article, but did read your summary G man. I think the author is missing one other crucial point to why folks like Toyota cars...their quietness and smoothness that seems to last. Transmissions that shift seamlessly. Engines that don't vibrate the steering wheel or hum all day long in the cabin, road noise that doesn't require a 500w stereo to get over. I buy Toyota for this reason, and have yet to find a car maker that can match it over the long haul. Sure, all new cars are this way, but are they after say 50k miles and 5 years? I haven't seen one yet, that a "commoner" like me could afford. Not to belittle the severity of this recall, but given the recall histories of several other automakers in comparison, I think everyone still has a long way to go to say Toyota is junk, and don't make the best cars on the road in general. Anyone forget about the Ford Exploder's problems with burning down houses if parked in the garage? Or airbags going off for no reason, tires loosing their tread at 70 mph, how about Blake's dad's $50k new Chevy truck that leaks water into the cabin every time it rains? Failing brakes on GM's in the 90's, etc... Let us not forget why Toyota is number 1. It's not necessarily that they stole the customer from the competitors, but the customer was driven to Toyota.

I don't know if it's so much Toyota coming down the ladder, as much as the others coming up the ladder to catch Toyota? At the end of the day though, for me at least, there is only one car company that I can think of that makes a car that is extremely quiet, smooth, and reliable all at the same time. Looks are just that, looks. I have yet to ride in, or drive, any car that matches Toyota's ability to insulate the cabin from the engine noise, road noise, and mechanical noises of a car. Especially one that stays that way beyond 40k miles (nissan, i'm talking to you). 8 years later and $300 for a couple of new mounts, the car is just as quiet and smooth as it was on day one. To me, that's the #1 attraction I have with Toyota cars.

It's the Toyota LS until someone tells me it's not because i don't know any better.....

Whew, man I need to upgrade my glasses. I thought this said RX AND NC's opinion of you. Damn sure don't wanna tick of the SKP man! He my buddy "even if he comes from the land of Celion Dion" :P SWO's the one you've got to watch out for, he's a democrat! PS: Christian79, I read your thread via your link. I don't think we need to tie us into your personal situation. Furthermore, I'd have to agree with one of the poster towards the end of that thread that you're treading on legal thin ice by continuing to bash that dealerhsip. Granted, what they did wasn't exactly legit, but they corrected the problem. Best thing you can do in the future, is to continue your participation in such internet boards to continue educating yourself on how this stuff works. There isn't a driver on the road that doesn't have some sort of horrid dealership story to tell, me included. I nearly had to threaten a lawsuit against the lexus dealership I bought my former LS400 from for a faulty engine computer, a $2,300 part. Barking is just part of the gig, man. Take your deposit and the knowledge you've just acquired, and go buy something else from someone else.

I bought my 01 430 about a year ago (have yet to drive it 4,000 miles) with 57k miles, for about $12.9 out the door. Although I didn't really care for it at first, it has started to grow on me quite a bit. The 430 engine is a real rocket when asked. I had to punch it yesterday from 30mph. It took off so fast that the little i-pass toll road reader sitting on the dash came flying back and hit me in the face! I was at 90mph before I could realize it. The faster the engine winds up, the quieter it seems to get too, which is very strange. Overall though, if you're not into a big car (LS), but want the bigger car luxury feel, then the GS is an excellent choice. Some say the GS is an IS with a bit more LS. I'd have to say it's the opposite, with the GS being an LS with a little more IS. I did have to replace the engine mounts/ transmission mount. Plus new rotors and pads, and my other usual new parts I put on a used car that I buy (plugs, filters, fluids, clean throttle body), even if it didn't really need it. I will have to do something about a couple softening suspension bushings soon though. But at 9 years of age in the Chicago area, rubber ain't gonna last for long!

Just curious, who is member #1?

Speed trap..... going 30 mph in a 15 mph zone, in Boulder City. However, going back through our path we took, with the video camera rolling, it became quite evident that we were going 30 mph, but not in a 15mph zone, rather a 35 mph zone that came after the 15mph zone. I knew it was a trap when the first thing the cop said to me was "I need your license and your rental agreement". Guess he's seen his fair share of white mustang convertibles heading to Hoover Dam to spot a "tourist". Nothing a $100 lawyer can't have thrown out of court, especially when presented with the video evidence, of which I'm going to post on youtube soon for the DA to see, and will post the link here for your inputs as well..

That woman scares me. She's the reason why I voted for Obama. However, that said, I have a feeling Iran is going to give the World it's reason to fight with them, no matter what we do. They're hell-bent on it.

What kind of "suspension work" was done? Does it have the air suspension option? The only thing that spooks me about the LS, is the air suspension. Not that it's bad, infact it's probably the best in the industry. But the whoppin' price to replace if it fails. You say it's the "super luxury"... does that mean it's on the air setup? At the end of the day, I seriously doubt your father in law would hose you over. You're family. And even if he doesn't like you, you are married to his daughter. $10k is a great deal.

What I found during my struggle with wanting a BMW, is that parts are much cheaper for a BMW. Perfect example being brake rotors, at about $50 a piece (parts.com figures for a 330i at the time). Whereas my GS rotors were twice that. However, after calling a german garage that I have come to hightly trust, my $100 OEM rotors for my GS will last 3 times longer than the OEM $50 for the BMW. He said this is usually the case across the board. He said "yes, fixing a lexus is hugely expensive, but it is rare to ever do the same repair twice for the life of the car". Whereas on a german car, you should expect each repair to be performed twice during it's life. Granted, this is outside of the normal wear and tear items for all cars.

I agree about the individual terrorists not being afraid to attack us. It's the states that allow them to base from that is the problem Iraq serves to cure. The best example I can think of is Yemen itself. Pre-Iraq.... USS Cole... A successful terrorist strike on their own soil. Yemen's response was nothing. Post Iraq, a terrorist with Yemen ties fails to blow up a plane in Detroit. Yemen launches military strikes against terrorist organizations within it's own borders to prevent further operations from occuring. THAT is the message Iraq sends to these governments. "Either you get em', or we'll get em'. Your choice". The fact that they're getting in the game of going after terrorists within their own borders, is a HUGE success in this battle, and one can easily credit Bush for that!

Got back from Vegas last night (broke and with a court date...don't ask...it's Vegas), only to hear on the news that we're on deck for about a foot of snow tomorrow night too! Granted, we're bare at the moment. You guys really got a problem going on out there!

....Who now know the sleeping giant is the last target you want to mess with, if you don't want your regional pecking order to be erased.

And I'm the one bitchin' about the weather??? HAhahaha!! Last time I checked, DC wasn't supposed to make Chitcago look good! However, I'm chimming in from Vegas at the moment, so I don't have a dog in this fight! I can't see the photo, but do see others on the tv news. You guys got bombed!

It's still early in this process, but I'd have to say that a "design" problem, it is not, given the fact that not every Camry on the road is flying down the road out of control, just a very very select few, which have a CTS made part. The cars that have the exact same part, but made by Denso, don't seem to be having this problem. If both are made to exacting specs, then the difference must be in the materials used. As one of the articles mentioned, both Denso and CTS parts are being used by the same plant, so it can't be the plant's fault. The blame is on CTS. The question is: why is their part different from the exact same part being built via the exact same design template from Denso, a company known to not cut corners in the materials it uses to make its products, which is why they cost more in general.

No kidding!! :cries: Nobody wants to talk to me anymore since I moved on from my "bomb Iran" rants! Thankfully SWO still talks to me!

Toyota finally managed to make a Corolla look menacing in your rear view mirror.

Excellent info guys, many thanks!! I didn't know that about youtube, but haven't really spent much time researching it either. And why would I, when I can just ask the experts here for a little guidance!!

The article doesn't say anything about where CTS gets it's materials to build those parts, which is the reason why I heard on the radio this morning that Ford has haulted the production of certain commerical vehicles too, due to a direct connection between the two automakers and one single source of materials used for this part....in China. But, it's still pretty early in this process, so who knows if it's an assembly thing, or a materials used thing..

I heard on the radio this morning that isn't just a Toyota problem anymore. Ford is involved now too with some of their commercial vehicles, and have haulted production on those vehicles as well. Apparently, this is a CHINA problem....SURPRISE SURPRISE SURPRISE!!!!! Ford has haulted production on the vehicles that use the same parts supplier for the same kind of parts in the throttle setup that Toyota has been using, in China. I swear, when will the lights go on and companies come to the realization that China made products are CRAP! Lead based paint in childrens toys, toxic drywall in homes in Florida, tainted baby formula, and now cars accelerating on their own and killing people....... what is the single thing all of these things have in common..... CHINA!!

Guys, I'm looking to post up some family videos on the internet for family members to see. However, I'm a little concerned about my control ability of those videos, and who gets to see them. I'm wondering if anyone knows of a site where I can post the videos in a password protected environment and have the ability to remove the videos if I want. I'd send the link and password to those I'd like to share the videos with. Kind of like a YouTube, but more secure (I think YouTube is basically wide open for the world to watch, which I don't like). Any suggestions? Thanks all!! ;)

I don't see how what I said from what I heard in a news blip on the radio is all that much different from what he actually said in print? The basis is the same (the past 8 years). However, I will say this, the guy sure can give one heck of a speech! Last night's state of the union was one of the best i've heard in many many years. I thought his views and goals were balanced and fair for all. Did anyone catch the looks on the faces of the Supreme Court Judges when Obama took his swipe at their decision to reverse the corporate donation limits? That was great! The speach was made. Now, it's time to produce. In fact, about the only other speech that I though was on that same level was Bush's speach on 9/20/01, when he laid it all out on the international table on what we're going to do in response to the second only attack on American soil in modern times. That one, was one for the history books!

The lead story last night on the local news (couldn't find the remote in time to change the channel) was an interview with a lady who had a 07' ES that had a throttle, which ultimately resulted in the death of an innocent guy standing on the street corner. The car took off, hit a wall and then the guy. I haven't been paying too much attention to this, as I though the problem was just a floormat coming loose and resting on top of the throttle. But, I guess there is a problem with the actual mechanics of the throttle itself. That's a whole different story in my book. I can already hear the lawyers lining up for this one. GM's new advertising slogan: "Sometimes being on the side of the road isn't so bad afterall!"