1994 Ls400: Fix Or Sell

[Tommy's Girl]

Hi,

This car has 190k miles. It is in need of some costly mechanical repairs and maintenance. I am not a mechanic and don't have one close to me so I'd be paying about $3000 to a reputable shop in town that I have much trust and respect for. I have recently invested $650 in new Michelin tires. I really love this Lexus!

Here's my choices:

1. Invest $3,000 in the Lexus and hope to get another 100k miles out of it without big repair bills

Pro: get to keep a car I like and I will know it's true mechanical condition

Con: uncertain if it will still need major work again and can never sell the car for enough

to pay back the repair investment

2. Sell the Lexus for $2k - $3k and add my $3k repair budget to that and buy a $5k - $6k used car

Pro: It would be a slightly newer car and I can be careful to choose a car in good condition

Con: I have not found anything in this price range to fall in love with and I just don't have a lot

of time to drive all over the place shopping for cars, getting them evaluated and hoping I
can buy a good one before someone else gets it. Plus, could still end up with costly

repair/maintenance expenses

I'm leaning toward keeping the Lexus and going for it. I'm telling myself, "Well, someone paid $50k for it back in 1994! Surely, it's worth the money to fix." I just don't know if I can reasonably expect it to go to 300k miles without major work again. I don't have a lot of extra funds.

Thanks for any encouragement or dissuasion. I have to decide pretty soon.

TG

[landar]

Sharon, welcome to the forum. Any used car will require maintenance and thus, some money thrown at it. You mention that you 'love' your Lexus so I am going to go out on a limb and guess that it is in pretty good condition overall. Is it? Rust? Paint peeling? Collision damage? Any pics to post?

If the car has heretofore been properly serviced then it is probably worth investing the money to keep her going. You have not mentioned any history with the car so it is impossible for us to know at this time.

I am not trying to make light of this but $3k is pretty easy to spend with a mechanic on repairs although you did not specify what those repairs would be. My guess is timing belt, water pump, brakes, suspension. Please give us a list of things that need attention. It may be that you can soften the blow by stretching the repairs over the next several years.

Finally, it is almost always cheaper to fix what you have than to buy another. But I would like to know more detail before rendering a final recommendation.

[Tommy's Girl]

Hi Randall (and others),

First of all, thank you for your welcome and interest in my post.

Yes, the car is due for its 2nd timing belt. First one was put in around 89k. The mechanic says that the present belt is showing fray and that the water pump is staining. When I mentioned this car is reportedly a non interference engine he says that it would still be a huge risk of damage if I waited longer and the belt broke.

I noticed the car was misfiring and the mechanic suggested we start with a tune up ($800) but before he began the tune up he found that oil was leaking out of the valve covers and onto the ignition wires and causing them to misfire so now we are looking at replacing valve cover gaskets.

The starter motor has an issue, possibly just a solenoid, but since the starter is located in a very labor-intensive location, it is recommended we replace it.

An EGR crossover tube is broken

There may well be other issues, but no other symptoms at this point. The mechanic will dig deeper if I ask him to, but I don't want to invest his time any further till I know better what I wanted to do.

I'm also obsessing a bit about the blacked out speedometer needle and the fact that it is also out of calibration so when I do manage to see the needle it's might show 60mph when I'm going 70mph. Looks like around $500 to buy a rebuilt dash cluster plus labor to remove and replace the existing one.

My nephew found a very nice regularly maintained and very clean 2000 Honda Accord with 150k miles on it that I could buy for about $3500, which happens to be the same cost as repairing the Lexus at this point. I was enjoying that thought till reading up about that particular Honda and I come across a lot of transmission failures to the tune of $4k or more to replace, only to fail again in some cases. All this is making me very sentimental about the cars from when I grew up (1970's)... but I have a chronically ill husband (lungs damaged in the Navy) who needs a comfortable quiet car when I can get him out of the house.

So that's it in a nutshell. There's been no other major repairs on the car so that still leaves me open for other things that could come up due in the near future, I suppose.

Oh... about the body. It's quite clean with one small mark on the passenger front quarter panel behind the wheel. Barely noticeable. It has been in a minor fender bender accident with previous owner, repaired and no serious damage at all. Car is silver in color, dash and leather seats in decent condition, most things work. The cruise control started not working consistently a week ago, and in addition to the aforementioned dash issue, the temperature/clock displays have gone dark. AC works great as does heater and defrosts. I mentioned the brand new tires. Car handles well.

Hope that helps. And thank you again. I look forward to any input.

Here's the only picture I have on my computer at present. Wish I wasn't in it obstructing the view, lol!

[landar]

Looks like lots of issues have stacked up on your car that were not taken care of as they occurred. I wonder how long you have owned the car and in what shape you purchased it?

You live in CA so the body is probably rust free and fairly decent shape. Thats a plus. Most likely, you would not get much for this car if you sold it outright and next to nothing on a trade. So, I would work on knocking out the most urgent issues first. All used cars are going to cost you money to maintain. Trading for an older Honda or Toyota is really not the solution unless you find a really clean one-owner (and that is not out of the question).

I would prioritize the repairs and go after the most urgent first, tackling the others as you have the funds. You seem to have researched the repairs and know what you are talking about. I really question the amount of money your mechanic is charging. It seems a little too high to charge $800 for a tune-up. So, what I would suggest is to shop around for another independent mechanic who knows what he is doing but charges less. Sometimes a Toyota dealer will even do the job for a reasonable price. But they might not like to step on the toes of a nearby Lexus dealer. Still, seek out another mechanics opinion and pricing. I think you could save a lot of money that way.

[Tommy's Girl]

Hello again, Randall

Here's where I confess that I bought the car rather impetuously on a Friday night after taking it for a test drive a couple weeks ago. The engine behaved tightly, the handling was excellent, braked smartly, interior in good shape, etc. I did not check it out with a mechanic. Went with my gut, which has never let me down before.

So, now that my embarrassment is out in the open... I've thought about your input for a long day and went ahead and picked up the car and took it to another mechanic after hours tonight. He has a small 2 bay shop with a lot of cars lined up for work. He spent generous time with me with the hood up talking about how things work and how easy it is to make a car run very poorly when really there could be a simple fix. He's going to get back to me early next week with his assessment and at that time I will decide whether to keep or sell. First mechanic did not charge me anything for the time he put in looking things over. That was nice, however I noticed there are now some interesting things with the car that were not wrong a week ago.... brake pedal going to the floor, sudden appearance of an exhaust leak (car sailed through smog test 2 weeks ago), loose clamp on the air intake. The 2nd mechanic looks to have a very busy small shop, nothing fancy. He does not mark up parts cost and if the book says it takes 6 hours to replace a starter but he gets it done in 3, then he charges for 3 hours, etc. I like him so far and can't wait to see what he reports.

Thank you, Randall, for your advice. I have a plan now and no more knot in my stomach. Who knows, come Monday I may find out my gut was right afterall. Either way I will return to let you know. It is still my hope that I can keep this car and have a reason to remain a lexusownersclub member and grow and learn about this beautiful car... in addition to drive and enjoy it. If the news is bad, there's still that Honda Accord in the wings ;-)

[billydpowell]

dont panic about the water pump and timing belt, you should have some time to get it fixed.. my old 94 had a busted original belt at 234k miles. and I bought it knowing it did not ruin the engine, replaced them and it started right up and ran good... now dont wait that long, but dont panic, do what you have to to quite it down (EGR) and make it run good and let your mechanic help you find parts at a reasonable price..

[Tommy's Girl]

Billy, that's reassuring, thanks. This 2nd mechanic agreed with what I had read before, that the worst damage that would be done if the timing belt happens to break, other than waiting for a tow truck, is maybe the plastic housing will get roughed up a bit on the inside.

[wuzzy1]

KEEP IT!

Your luxury car sold for $50,000 twenty years ago.

It sold for that much because it was/is the best vehicle ever built.

My mechanic...a pro...says that the engine is one of the most well balanced engines ever built, and can easily get 500,000 miles if maintained. I purchased my 1992 from my mechanic in 2002 it was 10 years old for $5000. When I asked..."what do I need to do to it?"...he said..."drive it". I did. In 10 years since, all I replaced was an alternator, and front brakes a few times. It has just gotten out of the shop after having "everything" replaced for a little over $1500...I'm good to go for another 100,000 miles.

You'll miss the comfortable ride and the power available at the touch of the gas pedal.

The worst thing I've found about owning a beautiful Lexus Ls400...is finding parking spots where hilldillies in their $100 junkers won't park next to me and ding up my baby!

KEEP IT!

[Tommy's Girl]

haha, your post made me smile...

I'd like to know exactly what "everything" was that only cost $1500.

We'll see what I find out in the next couple days from the mechanic.
Speaking of parking lots. I have been surprised at the turning radius of this car. Much better than I expected after driving similar sized cars.

[Tommy's Girl]

2nd mechanic reported back. Found same/similar problems as first but price is better (i.e. tune up is $400 vs $800) and we opted to do all of the following for $3200 and keep the car. I could space some of it out but I think I'd rather just be done with it and not have to think about it anymore.

tune up

fix exhaust leak (EGR)

replace belt tensioner

replace valve cover gasket

replace hood struts

replace shifter bushings

rebuild starter

new timing belt and water pump, etc

change brake fluid
drain and replace transmission fluid

He'll have it ready by Friday. He said after checking the car over real well that he thinks they'll only see us for oil changes for a very long time. And at least we will now know what we're driving vs starting over again.

Thank you for your input. Helped a lot.

[landar]

haha, your post made me smile...

I'd like to know exactly what "everything" was that only cost $1500.

I am fairly sure that the $1500 Wuzzy referred to was for some parts. He supplied some of the labor? Many of us on this forum are "Do It Yourselfers'" and we exchange a lot of ideas on how to tackle problems without going to a shop. I was thinking that you could also save some money doing a few of the things yourself as you seem to be very astute. However, if you have no desire to dig into the repairs/maintenance yourself (nothing wrong with that...many people do not) then the mechanic is the way to go.

Glad you are getting things sorted out. Let us know how it goes.

[billydpowell]

Take some fresh photos for us..... here is my 94 right after I fixed it and later with some new wheels...

[Tommy's Girl]

Randall, my husband would be here doing just that (tackling problems) if he were well... and saving us lots of $$$$'s. I wish I had the patience and know how. Over the years I have listened in awe as he mulled things over and fixed our cars, trucks, tractors, everything from tune ups to complete engine replacements. I thought nothing of buying a used car because of his skills. He grew up learning from some old boys who taught him a lot from the time he was young... plus all that he's learned along the way. But my brain is geared for other things I guess and it just doesn't grasp engines very well. It's too bad because we've got a shop full of mechanic tools. Tommy's been bedridden for 3 years and the docs told him 2.5 years ago that he had 3 weeks to live. Brought him home and started working with a biochemist and slowly but surely things are turning around so it's my hope he will one day be on this forum talking sense with you all and sharing ideas. I've watched him help a lot of people as well as get help from many.

Beautiful '94, Billy. I like the white. And well over 300k miles I see! I will take some pictures once I get mine back this weekend. That will be fun. I have been looking longingly at the empty carport awaiting its return. Our other vehicle is a '95 Ford F350 crew cab and it's making me miss the Lexus even more when I go to the store.

Randall, maybe I will tackle something on my own here soon, albeit not under the hood. I want to replace the dash cluster. Talked to the mechanic about helping me and he got sidetracked into how I had to have someone certified come and reprogram everything, etc. once they get it back. My brief reading on the subject sounds more like we can do a plug n play. I could be wrong but I'll be reading up on that. I want to relaminate the wood veneer around the shifter, too. It has a cracked look to it.

I wouldn't have bought this car if I'd taken the time to learn of the repairs it needed, but I find myself feeling good that it's going to have a better life here soon.

Thank you for your kindness and encouragement.

[landar]

I am sorry to hear about your husbands health issues and do hope that he will continue to improve. Maybe the thought of riding in the LS will help ;-)

I hear you about working on cars...not everyones cup of tea. However, do not sell yourself short as I will bet you can do much more than you might think. I do not always enjoy working on my cars (only 95% of the time!) but the money savings have been awesome. I have probably saved many, many thousands of $ over the life of each vehicle.

My son and I replaced the temperature display on our 92 LS that had blacked out. Very common problem. It is relatively easy to fix and there are many posts on it. I encourage you to try tackling that on your own. There is no 'reprogramming' necessary, just some basic soldering skills which you can easily learn.

[Tommy's Girl]

Thanks. I bought the Lexus specifically for my husband's comfort (well, that was my excuse anyway!). We had a '95 cutlass supreme and he could not get comfortable in it. We had a good day a couple weeks ago and took him out in the Lexus for the first time and he even drove it. He was quite happy.

I have no doubt of the large sums you have saved yourself doing the work. Sounds like it was a good father/son project. I need to replace the temperature / clock gauge, too. The main instrument cluster will probably come first unless I decide to practice on something a little less critical. I checked and we do have a soldering gun. I've read the posts about the capacitors and painting / scraping of the speedometer needle. We'll see. It sure would be nice to save a few hundred dollars at a time that I really shouldn't be spending it.

[Tommy's Girl]

Picked up my car tonight. I'm very happy! Got rid of the misfiring, and it just feels more powerful and efficient. They did not replace the starter (previous mechanic said it was failing) because it appears to have a new starter. He surmised the sound I'm hearing is the pinion gear wearing in and that it will improve with time. My husband thinks it may have been worsened by low voltage because there was a bad battery cable end that they replaced, too.

But now I have a new problem. Being that the battery was disconnected to replace the cable end, the radio is now set to SEC ... (edited to add that I just got the code and should be able to restore this now)

Thanks for encouraging me to keep the Lexus. Painfully expensive repairs but it's wonderful now. Remember I was considering the 2000 Honda Accord? On my way up to the mechanic I saw an broke down 2000 Honda Accord along the freeway. Perhaps it was a sign that I made the right choice.

[Tommy's Girl]

I can't wait for my husband to be well. I'm feeling pretty stupid. Probably how he'd feel if I was bedridden and he has to find a new horse trainer. He likes to ride horses but I do the care and training. I like to ride in cars but he did all the maintenance and repairs.

So why this post? Because I'm feeling pretty stupid right now. After my husband murmered from his sickbed last night about how important voltage is to these highly electronic cars, It occurred to me to investigate if that could've also lead to the awful misfiring that had been steadily getting worse. Sure enough, reports all over the internet about engines running "crappy" and "misfiring" real bad with a poor battery connection. Two heretofore highly respected and trusted mechanics with trained eyes tear into the car to analyze its misfiring. First one doesn't even mention the battery issue when he gives his thousands in repair estimate. Second one mentions it after all the repairs are made when he smiles at the very end and says... "Oh there was a bad battery connection so we replaced it for free." Goes on to say it was so bad that he was surprised the car started at all because someone had jammed a piece of metal between the terminal and connector to keep it going.

Now, I'm not saying the car didn't need the other work. Gaskets are leaking... yeah, replace them! But I can't help but wonder if he could've won over my permanent loyalty from here on out by simply saying from the beginning, "Hey come look at this connection. Let's see what repairing this first does for your misfiring." In the end he couldn't help but give himself away by telling me how bad it was. But to his credit he didn't tell me I needed a new starter like the previous shop. However, it could just be due to the fact that he had quoted me too low to replace/rebuild starter and didn't want to do all that extra labor. Yeah, I'm cynical right now. I'm going to have a talk with the shop owner today but first I'll bring the spark plugs to my husband's bedside so he can look them over. I have a few other questions after scrutinizing the repair bill and sleeping on it.

I just feel so dumb. Almost didn't want to come back here and post any more. See that picture of me on the 1st page? Dumbest Lexus owner ever, lol.

All that being said, I do still love this car and it did drive home with a lot of get up and go it didn't have a week ago. Tight, quiet and powerful. Strangely reminiscent of the days I had a '69 Mach I, minus all the noise.

[billydpowell]

your post made me think of Murphy's Romance, think I'll watch it tonight.. looking back, I believe we have all learned things by experience in the school of hard knocks.... keep your chin up, you'll be fine... money can be replaced.. Texas would be happy to have you... come on.

[Tommy's Girl]

Thanks, Billy. I'm smiling again. As soon as my husband, Tommy, is strong enough, I'm going to wrap him up and do a Lexus to Texas trip. Do us both some good to get out of town and let our eyes rest on some long views.

We watched Murphy's Romance twice this summer. One of Tommy's favorites.

As for the money... you're right. Good philosophy. If they got a little extra money from me, then could well be that they needed it for something real important. And I'm happy for the things I'm learning.