Speedometer Reads Too Fast

[T-J-M]

:(This is one of those real aggravations where you spend a considerable amount of money for a 'luxury' car and discover a problem that Lexus won't address.

I have a 2008 RX350 and on a recent trip to Florida I discovered that when my speedometer was reading 65 miles per hour I was actually only going 61 miles per hour (measured with a GPS validated with several other vehicles at 65 mph.) So I had to mentally add 4 mph to what ever speed I wanted to go - very annoying when you are on a 26 hour drive with posted speed limits that constantly change.

The local lexus dealer and subsequently their customer care call center told me that they wouldn't work on it because it was in spec. Apparently, the Lexus spec is minus 0%, plus 7% and mine was reading + 6.5%.

I told them that they needed to set their specs to satisfy their customers' needs, and that I have never had a car in my life whose speedometer was so far off. The answer was basically too bad.

So when I am ready to buy a new vehicle, Lexus has lost a customer for life. Seems sort of silly over a speedometer, but there are a lot of auto companies competing for my business and if Lexus doesn't want to keep me happy by someting as simple as fixing my speedometer, I'll just go to the competition.

I just wondered if anyone else was unlucky enough to get a car at the extreme end of the speedometer tolerance and if so had any better luck with the 'great' customer service that Lexus so loudlyl professes?

TJM

[ongtroi]

I just bought the 09 PBE and the speedometer is about 10% faster. I plan to have the dealer fix it when I have mine service at the first 1000 miles. I don't expect to pay for the fix.

[T-J-M]

I just bought the 09 PBE and the speedometer is about 10% faster. I plan to have the dealer fix it when I have mine service at the first 1000 miles. I don't expect to pay for the fix.

Since it is 10% out, they should fix it for you without a hassle. I was caught just within the 7% tolerance -

TJM

[BillyShaft]

It is not only annoying, but your warranty expires faster as well. EDIT: This is not true for Lexus. My Jeep has this issue, but not the Lexus.

Ask them to fix it for a zero reading or extend your warranty for 6.5%, their choice.

Jeep Wranglers are notorious for this. 10% variations are common.

At least the new ones can be changed via handheld programmer to accomodate changes in tire sizes. I am assuming that Lexus can change the speedo via programmer as well. EDIT: I asked this specifically of my service writer and he said it wasn't done that way with Lexus, but he was aware that some manufacturers have that ability.

[pauljcl]

:(This is one of those real aggravations where you spend a considerable amount of money for a 'luxury' car and discover a problem that Lexus won't address.

I have a 2008 RX350 and on a recent trip to Florida I discovered that when my speedometer was reading 65 miles per hour I was actually only going 61 miles per hour (measured with a GPS validated with several other vehicles at 65 mph.) So I had to mentally add 4 mph to what ever speed I wanted to go - very annoying when you are on a 26 hour drive with posted speed limits that constantly change.

The local lexus dealer and subsequently their customer care call center told me that they wouldn't work on it because it was in spec. Apparently, the Lexus spec is minus 0%, plus 7% and mine was reading + 6.5%.

I told them that they needed to set their specs to satisfy their customers' needs, and that I have never had a car in my life whose speedometer was so far off. The answer was basically too bad.

So when I am ready to buy a new vehicle, Lexus has lost a customer for life. Seems sort of silly over a speedometer, but there are a lot of auto companies competing for my business and if Lexus doesn't want to keep me happy by someting as simple as fixing my speedometer, I'll just go to the competition.

I just wondered if anyone else was unlucky enough to get a car at the extreme end of the speedometer tolerance and if so had any better luck with the 'great' customer service that Lexus so loudlyl professes?

TJM

Vs. GPS, my RX300 of 1999 reads a couple of miles fast at 60 mph. I haven't tried on the just received new 2009 RX350. Mine came with the 18" wheels with the 235/55 tires, which - all other things being equal - should make the speedometer read about 1.3% higher true speed just because of the smaller-circumference tires. If I remember, I'll check this weekend and post results.

[T-J-M]

I just got off the phone with Lexus who absolutely refuses to do anything because they claim it would cost the 'thousands' to swap out the 4 wheel sensors and the result might end up the same. They also arbitrarily state that the odometer is fine because it is fed with a different sensor. My only recourse is to bump this up to the national arbitration board. Anybody have any experience with that process?

TJM

It is not only annoying, but your warranty expires faster as well.

Ask them to fix it for a zero reading or extend your warranty for 6.5%, their choice.

Jeep Wranglers are notorious for this. 10% variations are common.

At least the new ones can be changed via handheld programmer to accomodate changes in tire sizes. I am assuming that Lexus can change the speedo via programmer as well.

[1990LS400]

I think the speedometer has read a little fast on every car I've ever owned. Manufacturers seem to do it on purpose -- one reason may be to be sure they are not contributing to speeding ... i.e. to keep the manufacturer out of court if a driver wants to blame the manufacturer for his getting a speeding ticket or having an accident.

The speedometer in my LS reads at least two mph fast at 60 mph. So does our Camry. As long as we know, we don't care. If I want to know the true exact speed, I just look at the GPS.

Maybe having the speedometer read a little fast on an RX is a "safety feature". I've driven RX loaners enough times to know that they aren't exactly the most stable vehicles on the road.

T-J-M, I think you are blowing this "problem" completely out of proportion.

And yes, the odometer and trip computer work off a different sensor and are more accurate.

[BillyShaft]

Speedo sensors at wheels? Sounds overly complex.

Every application I have ever seen is either a gear driven off the output shaft of the trans in older applications, or an electronic signal off the trans output that is computed in the ECU to give a speed signal to the dash.

I called our Dealer here to schedule my service campaign and asked him about it while I had him on the phone. He went and checked with some guys in service who have upsized tires and wheels and he said essentially the same thing, that the speed sensors in the wheels feed the speedo data. Sucks. :(

[googs]

Time for a lawsuit?

And how can i test mine?

[T-J-M]

I think the speedometer has read a little fast on every car I've ever owned. Manufacturers seem to do it on purpose -- one reason may be to be sure they are not contributing to speeding ... i.e. to keep the manufacturer out of court if a driver wants to blame the manufacturer for his getting a speeding ticket or having an accident.

The speedometer in my LS reads at least two mph fast at 60 mph. So does our Camry. As long as we know, we don't care. If I want to know the true exact speed, I just look at the GPS.

Maybe having the speedometer read a little fast on an RX is a "safety feature". I've driven RX loaners enough times to know that they aren't exactly the most stable vehicles on the road.

T-J-M, I think you are blowing this "problem" completely out of proportion.

And yes, the odometer and trip computer work off a different sensor and are more accurate.

Thanks for your comments. I wouldn't mind if it was 2 mph fast, but I think close to 5mph is excessive. My initital post described this as 'annoying' - I don't feel that's blowing it out of proportion but when I spend $45k+ on a car, I think the speedometer should be calibrated more closely than within 7%? We are all entitled to our own opinions! I'm not going to sell the car because of this, but quite frankly I expected higher standards from Lexus and my solution to the problem is simply that my next car won't be a Lexus. Its not emotional, I'm sure Lexus won't miss me, but when I buy a luxury car I expect the best quality, and the best treatment as a customer - and Lexus has not given me either. Its a shame - all over a stupid speedometer!

TJM

[BillyShaft]

Time for a lawsuit?

And how can i test mine?

Carry a hand held GPS with you and compare the two.

So when I am ready to buy a new vehicle, Lexus has lost a customer for life. Seems sort of silly over a speedometer...

T-J-M, I think you are blowing this "problem" completely out of proportion.

Hey TJM, we see a lot of annoyed angry people who find out something about their car they don't like and then come here and vent about what a POS lexus is and how they will never buy another one. With that in mind, some people are of the opinion that many of these statements are emotionally based and find it unreasonable to purchase a car based on speedo calibration alone.

Additionally, please excuse my uninformed-idiot post above. Apparently the ODO which determines your warranty coverage is fed from a different more accurate source.

My Jeep is old-school, and the tranny output feeds both the speedo and ODO. The Lexus is not like that. I mistakingly tried to equate the two.

I did some more research because I seemed to remember that my M3 always indicated a bit high on the speedo.

More info from the BMW people I used to run with:

The reason BMW speedo's read high (as well as Mercedes and Porsche) is that there are TUV laws in Germany that require the speedometer to NEVER read low, for safety. All three companies calibrate them slightly high for this reason.

When the cars are inspected over there, the speedometer MUST read what the actual speed is or higher, if it reads below what the actual speed is by any amount, it's large fine time.

Correct, this is not only in Germany but most countries.

In Germany the law states the speedo must be between 0% - 7% of the actual speed. BMW set the tolerance in the modern cars at 5%.

Mileage reading is not affected.

there are a lot of auto companies competing for my business and if Lexus doesn't want to keep me happy by someting as simple as fixing my speedometer, I'll just go to the competition

With this in mind, you may not want to buy the German competition for your next car either.

Maybe a nice Tahoe or Jeep Grand Cherokee?

[BillyShaft]

Maybe having the speedometer read a little fast on an RX is a "safety feature". I've driven RX loaners enough times to know that they aren't exactly the most stable vehicles on the road.

WHAT?

Blasphemy! Bite your tongue, sir! :D

[1990LS400]

Maybe having the speedometer read a little fast on an RX is a "safety feature". I've driven RX loaners enough times to know that they aren't exactly the most stable vehicles on the road.

WHAT?

Blasphemy! Bite your tongue, sir! :D

A Lexus dealer service manager once told me that it was constant source of amusement to hear LS owners tell him how relieved there were to get out of the dealer's ES and RX loaner cars and back into their LS cars. His standard response was "That's why you bought an LS.".

[T-J-M]

Time for a lawsuit?

And how can i test mine?

Carry a hand held GPS with you and compare the two.

So when I am ready to buy a new vehicle, Lexus has lost a customer for life. Seems sort of silly over a speedometer...

T-J-M, I think you are blowing this "problem" completely out of proportion.

Hey TJM, we see a lot of annoyed angry people who find out something about their car they don't like and then come here and vent about what a POS lexus is and how they will never buy another one. With that in mind, some people are of the opinion that many of these statements are emotionally based and find it unreasonable to purchase a car based on speedo calibration alone.

Additionally, please excuse my uninformed-idiot post above. Apparently the ODO which determines your warranty coverage is fed from a different more accurate source.

My Jeep is old-school, and the tranny output feeds both the speedo and ODO. The Lexus is not like that. I mistakingly tried to equate the two.

I did some more research because I seemed to remember that my M3 always indicated a bit high on the speedo.

More info from the BMW people I used to run with:

The reason BMW speedo's read high (as well as Mercedes and Porsche) is that there are TUV laws in Germany that require the speedometer to NEVER read low, for safety. All three companies calibrate them slightly high for this reason.

When the cars are inspected over there, the speedometer MUST read what the actual speed is or higher, if it reads below what the actual speed is by any amount, it's large fine time.

Correct, this is not only in Germany but most countries.

In Germany the law states the speedo must be between 0% - 7% of the actual speed. BMW set the tolerance in the modern cars at 5%.

Mileage reading is not affected.

there are a lot of auto companies competing for my business and if Lexus doesn't want to keep me happy by someting as simple as fixing my speedometer, I'll just go to the competition

With this in mind, you may not want to buy the German competition for your next car either.

Maybe a nice Tahoe or Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Thanks for your comments -

Never in any of my posts did I either call my 350 a POS or am I emotional about this ( There are more important things than this to stress about). I'm simply annoyed. Thanks for your research on BMW - I am aware of auto companies not wanting to err on the other side of the spectrum but the results of the class action suit mentioned below sort of go contrary to that. I have heard from several sources that the Lexus odometer is fed with another sensor so at least my warranty isn't being compromised. I guess with Honda, the same sensors fed both and it turned into a class action suit -

The recent class action lawsuit was ‘Karen Vaughn Vs. American Honda Motor CO., Et AL. Civil action No. 2:04-CV-142 where the speedometer and the mileage were only overstated by 3.75% and Honda not only had to provide restitution to its customers but changed its specification to +/- 2.5 % (vs. – 0 and + 7 that appears to be set by Lexus and BMW). By setting the tolerance to +/- 2.5% the mean would center on zero error, instead of the mean centering on +3.5% which is the case for Lexus and BMW. That does expose Honda to the 'speeding' issue if the odometer reads slow but you usually don't get a ticket for being 2.5% over the speed limit anyway.

Bottom line - as I said above - I'm just annoyed because I got one at the far side of the tolerance. I have had 3 loaner cars from Lexus (for service, etc) over the last year or so and I have checked all three of them and of course they were dead nuts on the mark!

[BillyShaft]

Hey TJM,

Honestly, I get the annoyance part. I haven't checked our RX400h because I don't make a habit of carrying one of the hand-held GPSs in my car with NAV. Of course now I am curious how far out we are. ;)

I generally drive to road conditions and traffic so I rarely peek at MPH unless I am in a school zone or other special speed zone; speed is largely irrelevant to me. Obviously it has much more meaning for you.

Shoot, my BMW being off by 4 MPH at 60 really didnt bother me, but the lack of reasonable cup holders did! :)

[fbsdmd]

Time for a lawsuit?

And how can i test mine?

Our 2008 RX 350 is only going 60 when the speedo says 65. Got 20,000 miles on it and that's been the only issue. I can live with it. Not having a place to plug the iPod in *BLEEP*es me off more. If you do not have a handheld GPS, put your cruise on at 60 mph while driving level on an interstate. Interstates have mile markers. Measure the length of time it takes to go one mile. Add a mph for every second under 60, subtract a mph for each second over. This is quite accurate between 55 and 65. The more careful you are in doing this, the more precise the reading. (Let's not get into a discussion about the difference between precision and accuracy)

[ylf]

Our 07 RX350 reads 2 mph fast at 60. My 08 F-150 reads about 1 mph fast.

[pauljcl]

:(This is one of those real aggravations where you spend a considerable amount of money for a 'luxury' car and discover a problem that Lexus won't address.

I have a 2008 RX350 and on a recent trip to Florida I discovered that when my speedometer was reading 65 miles per hour I was actually only going 61 miles per hour (measured with a GPS validated with several other vehicles at 65 mph.) So I had to mentally add 4 mph to what ever speed I wanted to go - very annoying when you are on a 26 hour drive with posted speed limits that constantly change.

The local lexus dealer and subsequently their customer care call center told me that they wouldn't work on it because it was in spec. Apparently, the Lexus spec is minus 0%, plus 7% and mine was reading + 6.5%.

I told them that they needed to set their specs to satisfy their customers' needs, and that I have never had a car in my life whose speedometer was so far off. The answer was basically too bad.

So when I am ready to buy a new vehicle, Lexus has lost a customer for life. Seems sort of silly over a speedometer, but there are a lot of auto companies competing for my business and if Lexus doesn't want to keep me happy by someting as simple as fixing my speedometer, I'll just go to the competition.

I just wondered if anyone else was unlucky enough to get a car at the extreme end of the speedometer tolerance and if so had any better luck with the 'great' customer service that Lexus so loudlyl professes?

TJM

Vs. GPS, my RX300 of 1999 reads a couple of miles fast at 60 mph. I haven't tried on the just received new 2009 RX350. Mine came with the 18" wheels with the 235/55 tires, which - all other things being equal - should make the speedometer read about 1.3% higher true speed just because of the smaller-circumference tires. If I remember, I'll check this weekend and post results.

With the 18"wheels, 235/55 tires at 33 psi (instead of the 30 psi recommended in the manual), my 09RX350's speedometer is 'optimistic' by 2-3 mph at 70-75mph. i.e about 3.5%. I don't know by how much that would increase if I set the tires at 30 psi as recommended.