Water Pump Installation Question

[AZ Mike]

I have been swamped, sick, etc., so my timing belt replacement project has been a little bit at a time over a couple of weekends.

I am ready to replace the water pump. When I removed the original water pump, there was no FIPG; only the water pump gasket between the water pump and the block. The service manual says to use FIPG but says nothing of the gasket. Therefore, I am confused; do I replace the new water pump with:

1) gasket only (as my original water pump had been installed)

2) FIPG only, no gasket

3) gasket AND FIPG

[eatingupblacktop]

Yeah you have a right to be confused. LexLS mentions applying sealant to the groove but no mention of a gasket:

http://www.lexls.com/tutorials/engine/timingbelt.html

Arrc does the same. Here's a diag:

But if you go to Toyota, they show a gasket:

http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_U_1999_LEXU...1.html?hl=16271

[AZ Mike]

So is there a right answer? Since my original water pump had nothing more than the gasket, I am temped to go that route.

[eatingupblacktop]

So is there a right answer? Since my original water pump had nothing more than the gasket, I am temped to go that route.

I think they're using the sealant more than the gasket because it's easier to clean than having to scrape off a gasket. If you don't trust the service manual, I would call Lex service and ask to speak to a tech for an official answer.

[landar]

So is there a right answer? Since my original water pump had nothing more than the gasket, I am temped to go that route.

There probably isn't a "right" answer. Either could work. Obviously the factory gasket worked fine for years.

I am not a big fan of the Formed-In-Place Gaskets especially if a factory gasket is available. The FIPG is just messy, IMO.

[eatingupblacktop]

So is there a right answer? Since my original water pump had nothing more than the gasket, I am temped to go that route.

There probably isn't a "right" answer. Either could work. Obviously the factory gasket worked fine for years.

I am not a big fan of the Formed-In-Place Gaskets especially if a factory gasket is available. The FIPG is just messy, IMO.

You have to make sure that you lay down a nice bead with no bubbles and keep it even all the way around (shaky or tired elboes don't help). You're also committed in 5 minutes or so. Don't need that kind of stress. The job by itself requires more than enough effort without having to add to it. On the other hand, cleaning up a severely baked on gasket is never fun and you can damage the metal surfaces if you try too hard or use the wrong materials. Take your pick. :D

[AZ Mike]

Actually, the gasket came off very easily after 9.5 years. The only part that adhered at all was the rubber edge, and it quickly and easily pulled off in one piece (didn't break, tear, etc.)

[eatingupblacktop]

Actually, the gasket came off very easily after 9.5 years. The only part that adhered at all was the rubber edge, and it quickly and easily pulled off in one piece (didn't break, tear, etc.)

Sometimes the fates are with you. So if you got it 100% clean/spotless, then I guess it's going to be another gasket.

I have been swamped, sick, etc., so my timing belt replacement project has been a little bit at a time over a couple of weekends.

Hey, props to you AZ for taking the time to do it right. I always say, "Quick is a trick, but right makes it tight". ;)

[Vander]

The dealers just use the permatex type stuff as a gasket for the 1uzfe.

[dragr13]

As long as both of the mating surfaces are unwarped, and clean and free of grease/oil/debris, you should have absolutely no problems with using a dry gasket. i tend to think 'if lexus didn't goop up the seal when they built the car, i'm not going to do it when i'm repairing it'. just make sure you torque to the correct values and in the correct order.

I did my water pump when i got the car; i've put 20k on it in one year and haven't lost a drop. Good luck!

[eatingupblacktop]

The dealers just use the permatex type stuff as a gasket for the 1uzfe.

This is true. You can ask them to use a gasket though. They may try to tell you they don't have them in stock, or one is no longer available. That's when a part number comes in handy.

[AZ Mike]

Here is the word from the service foreman at the local dealership: If Lexus sends a gasket with the water pump, use the gasket. If they don't, use FIPG. He said that they used the hard gaskets until shortly after my model year, and then switched to FIPG in lieu of a hard gasket. He told me there is no reason to use FIPG in addition to the gasket. So, gasket it is.

[eatingupblacktop]

Here is the word from the service foreman at the local dealership: If Lexus sends a gasket with the water pump, use the gasket. If they don't, use FIPG. He said that they used the hard gaskets until shortly after my model year, and then switched to FIPG in lieu of a hard gasket. He told me there is no reason to use FIPG in addition to the gasket. So, gasket it is.

AZ, now that this issue is resolved, how goes the job? Any surprises, tougher than expected sections?

[Randy&Bonnie]

..

[AZ Mike]

AZ, now that this issue is resolved, how goes the job? Any surprises, tougher than expected sections?

Other than initial confusion on how/in what order/etc. to remove fan bracket, alternator, and a/c compressor, it hasn't been that bad. Of course, this has been "a little bit at a time" project.

The mating surface (and here I always thought my car's mating surface was the back seat....) of where the water pump meets the block is very clean. The original gasket held perfectly for 9.5 years. With the agreement of the shop foremen from two local Lexus dealers, I installed the water pump with the gasket only.

I am installing the timing belt tonight. The belt is on (install marks lined up perfectly when installed), and I just turned the crank clockwise two full turns. The timing marks on the pulleys match up perfectly with the opposing marks. The install marks on the timing belt no longer match, but I think that is normal, right? Even though the sketch in the factory manual shows the pulley marks AND the belt install marks lining up.

Now, I just need to figure out how I am going to tighten up the crank bolt. I think that I read that some have jammed something thru the crank pulley that lodges on the opposite side for resistance.....is this the best method? Is there any risk of breaking off a flange on the aluminum block behind the pulley?

[eatingupblacktop]

(and here I always thought my car's mating surface was the back seat....)

I'm sure many of us think the same way! :P

I am installing the timing belt tonight. The belt is on (install marks lined up perfectly when installed), and I just turned the crank clockwise two full turns. The timing marks on the pulleys match up perfectly with the opposing marks. The install marks on the timing belt no longer match, but I think that is normal, right? Even though the sketch in the factory manual shows the pulley marks AND the belt install marks lining up.

Now, I just need to figure out how I am going to tighten up the crank bolt. I think that I read that some have jammed something thru the crank pulley that lodges on the opposite side for resistance.....is this the best method? Is there any risk of breaking off a flange on the aluminum block behind the pulley?

AZ, sounds good so far. As for the timing marks on the belt, once you've turned the crank, the marks on the belt will never line up again, so don't worry about them, just make sure the pulley marks all line up. Easiest way to tighten the crank bolt is to use an impact wrench. Another way is to put something through the flywheel to lock the crank and use a torque wrench, just make sure you remove it when you're finished. Still another way is to use a breaker bar and hammer it, but you won't know what torque you've applied. I'm not sure I would do it by jamming the pulley, but maybe someone else who has used this method can advise.

[AZ Mike]

I borrowed a friend's compresser and impact wrench tonight. It did snug up the nut, but I have no idea to what extent. It still seems like I have to have some way of securing the pulley to put a torque wrench on to accurately torque it.

[tackered]

I just finished the timing belt on my 91 and I jammed the flywheel with a set of pliers with soft grip handles. Worked like a charm.

[AZ Mike]

Thanks, tackered....I will have to give that a try this weekend.

Does the cable for the crank position sensor (from crank pulley to left camshaft cover) go behind or in front of fan bracket? I have it in front, and it doesn't look right.....looks like it could get hung up with serpentine belt.