Engine Air Filter

[Swoosh]

Hello to all. I am a new pre-owned lexus owner. I just brought a 05 rx330. Had a question about air filter. Being a previous M3 driver I always believed in K&N filter for my car and was very happy with the result. Does any of you had an experience or have used the K&N filter in their lexus rx330 and if so how were the results and would you recommend it?

thanks

Nick

[smooth1]

If your talking about just changing to a drop in filter by K&N or AEM and such, yeah, that's fine. The initial cost is saved by not having to replace them so in the long run you actually save money. If your talking about a cold air intake system, I wouldn't waste the money on that. Your not gonna feel any improvements there. It may sound nicer and look good, but that's about it for the RX.

[smooth1]

Welcome to the LOC btw!

[Grumpa72]

I am not a fan of K & N or any filter that promises better horsepower through better breathing. In the classic Corvette world, where my other interests lie, there have been discussions on this for our classic cars. The arguement comes down to this - "there ain't no free lunch". This means that for increased breathing, you have to give up something and that something is usually less filtration. I am sure that the initial installation of the K & N actually does help improve breathing with little or no loss of filtration. However, once the oil in the filter becomes saturated or evaporates, then that is when I believe that the loss of filtration occurs.

Just my two cents worth.

Gary

[smooth1]

I am not a fan of K & N or any filter that promises better horsepower through better breathing. In the classic Corvette world, where my other interests lie, there have been discussions on this for our classic cars. The arguement comes down to this - "there ain't no free lunch". This means that for increased breathing, you have to give up something and that something is usually less filtration. I am sure that the initial installation of the K & N actually does help improve breathing with little or no loss of filtration. However, once the oil in the filter becomes saturated or evaporates, then that is when I believe that the loss of filtration occurs.

Just my two cents worth.

Gary

But wouldn't that be when you take the filter out, clean it off with a hose, reoil it, and put it back in? And the other part of the argument is how much air filtration do you need? Isn't there a point at which it doesn't matter any more? I would think if there was some real concern, the automotive industry, namely the car manufacturers themselves, would have some filtration standard somewhere. Yet I have never seen a single mention of it anywhere. So, my question is then, how do you know the stock air filter that is in there now is any good? Did the car manufacturer test the filter life and conclude that it is sufficient? or that in general, all air filters are sufficient?

[Randy&Bonnie]

..

[wwest]

99% of the time, for most of us, the throttle plate itself is the MAJOR OBSTRUCTION to intake airflow.

If you drive with a consistently wide open throttle, enough to justify the K&N, then you might as well use the K&N since you'd soon be headed for an engine overhaul anyway and "debris" coming through the "freer flowing" K&N simply will not matter.

[zalaser]

Most of the people in this forum are correct. You will not hirt your vehicle by using K&N but id will not do a damn thing for it either. I had filter out of the car completely just to prove a point and there is no power gain...It is also goes for a crappy "Turbo Flow" iserts and "lifetime filters" Having OEMs or close and replace them as recommended or more often for dusty roads is better choice in my opinion. We are not talking racing optimized engine or car here..

[Grumpa72]

But wouldn't that be when you take the filter out, clean it off with a hose, reoil it, and put it back in? And the other part of the argument is how much air filtration do you need? Isn't there a point at which it doesn't matter any more? I would think if there was some real concern, the automotive industry, namely the car manufacturers themselves, would have some filtration standard somewhere. Yet I have never seen a single mention of it anywhere. So, my question is then, how do you know the stock air filter that is in there now is any good? Did the car manufacturer test the filter life and conclude that it is sufficient? or that in general, all air filters are sufficient?

My point exactly. IF owners would maintain their filters as you described then I would venture a guess that a clean, well oiled K & N filter does a very nice job. However, I wonder what its filtration capabilities are six months down the road? How many owners will really pop the hood, pull the filter, clean it, re-oil it and install it? Oth, a paper filter takes, what, ten minutes to change?

Too much filtration? How is that possible? As I understand it, one of the major wear items on engines is internal wear. If you can reduce that wear by proper filtration, then why not do the best. I remember in my college lab days we had paper filters that would filter liquids down to the single digit micron level. I wonder, though, how well the engine would breathe then. I do think that there is an optimum level of filtration.

[smooth1]

But wouldn't that be when you take the filter out, clean it off with a hose, reoil it, and put it back in? And the other part of the argument is how much air filtration do you need? Isn't there a point at which it doesn't matter any more? I would think if there was some real concern, the automotive industry, namely the car manufacturers themselves, would have some filtration standard somewhere. Yet I have never seen a single mention of it anywhere. So, my question is then, how do you know the stock air filter that is in there now is any good? Did the car manufacturer test the filter life and conclude that it is sufficient? or that in general, all air filters are sufficient?

My point exactly. IF owners would maintain their filters as you described then I would venture a guess that a clean, well oiled K & N filter does a very nice job. However, I wonder what its filtration capabilities are six months down the road? How many owners will really pop the hood, pull the filter, clean it, re-oil it and install it? Oth, a paper filter takes, what, ten minutes to change?

Too much filtration? How is that possible? As I understand it, one of the major wear items on engines is internal wear. If you can reduce that wear by proper filtration, then why not do the best. I remember in my college lab days we had paper filters that would filter liquids down to the single digit micron level. I wonder, though, how well the engine would breathe then. I do think that there is an optimum level of filtration.

I never said too much filtration, I said at point does it stop mattering? I guess my real point is, how can anyone argue that a stock air filter is bad, good, or the best? I've never seen any real data on "stock" air filters. I know they perform thier function, but nobody can say at what level it performs too! And to reinforce that point, the auto mfgrs. don't have any standards set for it either. Which leads me to beleive that all air filters are acceptable? Capable? And that this issue is not an important issue to the mfgr. so long as it is replaced or cleaned. I have never seen an auto mfgr. say or write " Intake air has to be XX clean with less than XX air flow restrictions. The auto industry made it a point to establish oil standards, and detergent levels. And everything else that goes into your engine is rated, controlled, recommended, and all that. But whenever it comes to the air filter, it allways says " clean or replace." Not "clean or replace with 5011 tested and approved air filter."

And to answer your statement of a paper filter that can filter liquids to single digit micron levels. Let's take that as an example. Would an engine last or perform any longer or better than a filter that only went to say 50 microns, and lets say that air restrictions are similar, but at 200 microns, the air restiction is so much less, that the engine performance and fuel economy is so much greater. Does it effect the life of the engine?

So, until I can see some data, I think K&N and some of the other performance air filters have a long enouph track record, tons of testing, and product developement, that I can see. That should account for something.

[wwest]

Every vehicle I own, or have owned since the early ninties, has or had a MAF and the later ones with MAF & IAT.

I have never been tempted to use a K&N but were I to do so the following would become a part of my clean and re-oil procedure.

I would build a fixture which would allow me to, out of the vehicle, force airflow at a significantly high level through the filter for a sustained period so as to wick "surplus" oil out of the filter. That's what I would do before actually installing it and thereby prevent, hopefully, contaminating my MAF/IAT sensors with an oil coating and subsequence dirt buildup.

But then the question arises as to how much life, efficient "oil-aided" air filtering life, would be left in the K&N with so little oiling left once I install it.

[smooth1]

I would build a fixture which would allow me to, out of the vehicle, force airflow at a significantly high level through the filter for a sustained period so as to wick "surplus" oil out of the filter. That's what I would do before actually installing it and thereby prevent, hopefully, contaminating my MAF/IAT sensors with an oil coating and subsequence dirt buildup.

Just use an air nozzle off the air compressor first.

A fully oiled air filter would contain, maybe 2 ounces of oil. I've heard alot about the oil collecting on an MAF/IAT, but I have never seen it happen, or held an MAF that was ruined by filter oil. And I have worked on more cars than I can even think to count. I would think the only way is if the person really over oiled the filter, to the point it was ridiculous, and hence, really thier own fault. I've had after market performance filters on tons of cars, motorcycles, boats, you name it. And I have never had an issue with any of them.

Again, I'm not refering to the performance gain claims by the manufactures of after market filters. I can only tell you that after racing engines for hours at thier limits using these performance air filters, we have never had an issue relating to the use of them. And I have never had an issue with any of them in my personal cars. And if when I clean and reoil mine the third time, it has paid for itself.