Ca Hov Lanes

[Gryphon]

This from Car and Driver, May 2007:

"Hybrids don’t go vroom-vroom, part two: California, the state in which the Governator, Arnold Schwarzenegger, reigns, will not extend any more car-pool-lane passes to hybrid owners. Since 2005, the state has offered 85,000 permits to hybrid owners to drive solo in the fast lane. A sticker on the rear bumper lets cops know if the hybrid has authorization to use the lane. To encourage gas-electric-vehicle purchases, the state set aside permits for hybrids on a first-come, first-served basis. The program drew flack when the fast-moving lanes began to be clogged with hybrids and, worse, slow-moving hybrids. The permits expire in 2010 and probably will not be renewable."

Somehow the image of a cheapskate Prius owner, driving down the HOV lane at exactly the posted speed limit (or below), tires inflated to the max, windows up and air conditioner off for maximum fuel economy, oblivious to how many vehicles are stacked up behind him comes to mind.

Here comes the flames. :)

Tom

[RX400h]

Ha, that image is not very clear! I just went a trip to Beverly Hills, yesterday and the HOV lanes were humming along at 80 MPH. It is true that many Prius owners are timid drivers, but I ran up against one last week who figured he'd easily blast ahead of the RX400h to get into my lane. Little did he realize that the RX400h can do 0-60 in 6.7 seconds with a fully-charged battery! Needless-to-say, he saw nothing but my tail lights! :chairshot:

[SOMEONE ELSE'S GOT MY NAME]

This from Car and Driver, May 2007:

"Hybrids don’t go vroom-vroom, part two: California, the state in which the Governator, Arnold Schwarzenegger, reigns, will not extend any more car-pool-lane passes to hybrid owners. Since 2005, the state has offered 85,000 permits to hybrid owners to drive solo in the fast lane. A sticker on the rear bumper lets cops know if the hybrid has authorization to use the lane. To encourage gas-electric-vehicle purchases, the state set aside permits for hybrids on a first-come, first-served basis. The program drew flack when the fast-moving lanes began to be clogged with hybrids and, worse, slow-moving hybrids. The permits expire in 2010 and probably will not be renewable."

snip

Here comes the flames. :)

NOPE. NO flames ... not even a puff of smoke. Typical hype, and from nearly a half year ago. The renewal passed some time ago. Leave it to Car & Driver, though, to take a swipe at hybrids, since the soon to be cheep source of fuel, for fast cars will be killing their fan base. I hate to see the less fortunate have to pay $4, $5, or $6 per gallon, but I won't mind seeing the smirk removed from the editors of their magazine.

[Gryphon]

You made me laugh, RX400h. I needed that. :)

I agree with you, Someone, C&D clearly is not in love with hybrids. IIRC my RX400h has a "quirky CVT," and is just no fun to drive.

Does performance really vary with the level of battery charge?

BTW, I am not allowed on the AZ HOV lanes because my RX does not demonstrate a 45% improvement over the standard model, an RX350 I assume. But a Dodge Ram with a passenger, getting 12 mpg is quite welcome. Go figure.

Tom

[Gryphon]

You made me laugh, RX400h. I needed that. :)

I agree with you, Someone, C&D clearly is not in love with hybrids. IIRC my RX400h has a "quirky CVT," and is just no fun to drive.

Does performance really vary with the level of battery charge?

BTW, I am not allowed on the AZ HOV lanes because my RX does not demonstrate a 45% improvement over the standard model, an RX350 I assume. But a Dodge Ram with a passenger, getting 12 mpg is quite welcome. Go figure.

Tom

[RX400h]

Yes, according to C&D, the previous best 0-60 MPH time for the RX400h was 6.9 seconds. After fully charging its battery, they achieved a 6.7 second 0-60, which is better than that of a Porsche Cayenne-S.

[GDixon]

This issue has nothing to do with hybrids but rather slow drivers in "go fast" lanes. The same criticism could be made for a '52 Chevy pick-up carrying a passenger that pokes along. Even in non-carpool areas there are slow drivers in the fast lane that seem oblivious to the cars streaking by on the right. Using a phone in the car contributes to the problem from my observations.

C&D's point is to get out of the left lane unless you are willing to do left lane speeds. Most hybrid drivers are concerned about the environment, their gas mileage, and keeping the planet green. The rub comes when they impose that viewpoint on others by going slowly in the carpool lane. There are probably even a few of those drivers that think they are contributing to saving the world by slowing everyone down on purpose. There is quite a bit of difference in that view than the idiot who clunks along in an old car, or any car, just because a passenger is present.

Hybrid drivers are welcome in the fast (commuter) lane as is anyone else willing to "go with the flow" rather than impede the flow. Perhaps C&D has observed that a greater percentage of hybrid drivers are more cautious than the general driving public.

As those of us who drive the commuter lanes are aware it only takes one slow driver to gum up the works. If that driver happens to be in a hybrid then "profiling" comes into play and all hybrid owners are painted with the same brush.

[Gryphon]

Yes, according to C&D, the previous best 0-60 MPH time for the RX400h was 6.9 seconds. After fully charging its battery, they achieved a 6.7 second 0-60, which is better than that of a Porsche Cayenne-S.

So, for maximum performance the RX400h should have a (nearly) empty fuel tank and a full battery. Quite unique.

Tom

[skyfish400h]

Yes, according to C&D, the previous best 0-60 MPH time for the RX400h was 6.9 seconds. After fully charging its battery, they achieved a 6.7 second 0-60, which is better than that of a Porsche Cayenne-S.

So, for maximum performance the RX400h should have a (nearly) empty fuel tank and a full battery. Quite unique.

Tom

I doubt the state of the battery charge had much to do with the better time. More likely it was just learning curve on the part of the driver and/or variation in the timer start/stop sync.

These batteries hold an amazingly flat voltage and current output until they are nearly exhausted (that's one reason why they use them). Also, even if the batteries were working for the entire 7s (do we know this?) that is far below their output capabilty, so only a fraction of the charge would have been used for the 0-60 run anyway.

Clearly, the maximum performance for ANY car will be with the gas tank nearly empty simply because there is less mass. A smaller driver will count as well. This is not uniqe to hybrids.

[RX400h]

Surprisingly, many of the reviewers at C&D are well-educated. I believe Pat Bedard has a bachelors degree in mechanical engineering and others are quite perceptive at figuring out the whys and why nots of performance. I've also read elsewhere that performance will suffer as the battery reaches its low-point (about 60% charge?). For C&D, with their very accurate instrumentation, proving the concept is not very difficult.

[Gryphon]

C&D is the only car mag I take the time to read. I find it adequate to keep me informed as to what's on the road. I do think that many of their writers are engineers. I also enjoy their wit and columns. The comparison tests often leave me cold as I don't really care how they rank various cars as much as simply reporting on them.

It would be cool if they would retest a hybrid with respect to battery charge and/or battery "participation" for acceleration testing.

The fuel tank comment was meant to address reduced vehicle weight with an empty tank and yes, Billy Barty's car was always a bit faster.

Tom

[SOMEONE ELSE'S GOT MY NAME]

Surprisingly, many of the reviewers at C&D are well-educated. I believe Pat Bedard has a bachelors degree in mechanical engineering and others are quite perceptive at figuring out the whys and why nots of performance. I've also read elsewhere that performance will suffer as the battery reaches its low-point (about 60% charge?). For C&D, with their very accurate instrumentation, proving the concept is not very difficult.

I have no doubt that they may be a brite bunch. What I take issue with is the blanket statement that the 'Hybrids' are the cause of all car pool lane 'slow driver' evils. Fact is, when you see a Prius going slow, you equate slow car pool lane drivers with all hybrids. For cripe sakes, 99.9% of people don't even know it's a hybrid in front of them if it's an RX, or an Altima, or Civic or Camry. Plenty of different car model drivers drive slow ... it's just that you notice it more when it's the Prius, because it's shaped like a cheese wedge. Now if C&D want to do actual car model counts to see who's doing what .... I'd respect that.

[RX400h]

Well, as I mentioned before, a Prius driver tried to race (and beat) me, a couple of weeks ago. I agree that not all Prius drivers are out to achieve 60 MPG.

Dave