Bad Valve Lifters Help!

[Martin from Phoenix AZ]

Hey all!

I just found this great group!!

I have a 92 ES 300 with about 146000 on it that I bought 2 weeks ago. Everything was perfect on it, in fact I drove it over 300 miles on a trip to Tucson and back last week. Then earlier this week, while driving the freeway at normal freeway speeds (about 70 mph) I started hearing a rather pronounced knocking from the engine. Also when I stop at a light the car stalls. The knocking is really pretty loud.

I am willing to bet from everything I have read that its a bad lifter. Also the car seems to be running hot even though the temp guage never moves much past the first bottom line (about 1/4 up.) Sometimes after a run, like the trip to Tucson, it leaks quite a bit of anti-freeze. I refill it and its fine again for a while. Also this is all with AC on. It ran GREAT on the Tucson run before all this started!

I need to know the best place to buy new lifters from, (I figure if I am there, might as well do them all!! I don't want to repeat this!) Also any technical part details, things like that. I have a service manual on its way. I am fairly mechanically competent, though not a pro by any means!

If any of you have done this sort of thing, or had it done, I would appreciate hearing from you! I can't afford the over $500 to have someone do it. I could almost buy an engine for that, I have checked!

Thanks!

Martin

[Toysrme]

Sounds like you blew it up...

What is the oil consumption? See if you don't have oil in your coolant, or coolant in your oil.

Is the car overheating? Does the engine have a hard time idling? Check the compression on the cylinders.

I digress, to answer the question. No, unless you DIY you're not getting a valvejob done for under $1000. The shims are $3-8-10-12 a piece depending on your hookup (24 valves), you hope to re-use some shims to save money.

Doing it requires taking the valve covers off & doing 8 sets of valves in 1/3 incrimates of the crankshaft. It takes forever if you've never done it... But it's actually really easy. You measure the valve clearance with feeler gauges, then take the shim out & measure the shim thickness with a set of calipers. Add the two numbers together, look on the handy dandy valve shim chart & see which new shim you need to get the two numbers in spec.

Takes forever, but it's pretty easy.

[Martin from Phoenix AZ]

Sounds like you blew it up...

What is the oil consumption? See if you don't have oil in your coolant, or coolant in your oil.

Is the car overheating? Does the engine have a hard time idling? Check the compression on the cylinders.

I digress, to answer the question. No, unless you DIY you're not getting a valvejob done for under $1000. The shims are $3-8-10-12 a piece depending on your hookup (24 valves), you hope to re-use some shims to save money.

Doing it requires taking the valve covers off & doing 8 sets of valves in 1/3 incrimates of the crankshaft. It takes forever if you've never done it... But it's actually really easy. You measure the valve clearance with feeler gauges, then take the shim out & measure the shim thickness with a set of calipers. Add the two numbers together, look on the handy dandy valve shim chart & see which new shim you need to get the two numbers in spec.

Takes forever, but it's pretty easy.

Well TIME is one thing I have.. (Not driving it but would LIKE to!) Money is what I DON'T have! :( :( I can turn a wrench fine.. just not a frequent engine mechanic.

It is interesting you asked about the oil coolant thing.. When I got home the very last time after a drive, and it was hot, the overflow coolant tank dripped some coolant, and there was some oil in it I could tell that. Obviously both will have to be replaced. No problem. I will get a powerflush kit and run lots of water through it after draining the radiator into a bucket to catch what comes out. I can do oil change too.

My main concern is getting to the valves and heads! That seems like a real chore.. Is it not as bad as I think? Once off, is it best to take the heads to a mechanic and have them do the rest?

The car did also smoke a little after starting but only for about 10 to 20 seconds.. Basically just one good size cloud of grey/black, smelled more like fuel than oil, but could have had oil in it too.

What about valve seats/guides/seals? Where to get them, sizes and cost? I don't mind ordering all the parts, taking it apart myself and letting the mechanic check out the valves, replace seats/guides etc..

THANKS for your time and input! You can get me direct at maxwell679@cox.net if you like.

Martin

[SKperformance]

Sounds like a broke engine not a valve issue.

[Toysrme]

I think at the least you blew a head gasket driving it around overheating.

Yeah sk. The valvetrain is mint. It's not going to "break". Eventually the shims wear down & you need new shims. Regardless. That doesn't cause any real problems. (It's not like an old pushrod engine where the valves go out of adjustment & you snap a valve off, or beat a lifter to death, that beats the cam lobe to death. Eventually you'll start to wear the cam lobes, but that takes a long time.)

If you have oil & coolant together, you need to take it off the road ASAP before you seize the motor with all the coolant in the oil. Where water is, oil isn't & everyone knows from oil commercials on TV. Oil makes engine surfaces horny. (Feel free to quote me on that sk! ;) )

You don't really replace valvetrain parts. You check that the valves are in adjustment. If not you replace the shim with one that does. Being a rubber based gaket, eventually valve stem seals wear out & get replaced. I have never seen a valve, or valve guide in any Toyota DOHC engine break in any way. Never seen one burned up either. Neither has anyone I know.

It's blown up. This aint a valve issue. Hell it may have out of adjustment valves that are ticking... But that is not an issue that needs to be addressed at the moment.

Just to drive it home.

Blown headgasket & warped cylinder heads.

You'll have to quit driving it before you completely destroy the engine, have the heads milled flat & isntall new headgaskets. At which time, if there is a problem with the valves being out of adjustment. That's a good time to re-adjust them.

Or buy a new engine.

Not valve problem<s>. Blown headgasket problem.

[Martin from Phoenix AZ]

Sounds like a broke engine not a valve issue.

It is off the road, now parked. I don't think the engine is blown (though not SURE!) It wasn't smoking or anything, it might have been a bit warm but not totally over heated. I looked at the anti-freeze it appears ok. Haven't looked at the oil yet, but will replace before driving again anyway after this is all done.

I figure I will save the shims and measure them. Replace what needs replaced.

What about the springs etc. UNDER the shims? Could it be one of them that is broken? I think what ever it is it is in the rear bank of cyls.

I have a question also. Once you take out the overhead cam, how do you tell how to get it back exactly as it came out?

My mechanic quoted about $1400 to do this job, which I DON'T have! I would like to do as much as I can myself, I have done engine work on other vehicles just not Toy's/Lexus. Chevy mostly. And nothing quite this major.

Toysrme257th, can I trade emails with you directly? I don't log on to the forums but about once a week, I check emails daily.

Thanks!

Martin

Sounds like a broke engine not a valve issue.

I guess my question for you is how do you KNOW if its blown up? And what do you MEAN exactly by that?

I don't see how the iron core can go bad. The pistons should still be good along with the crankshaft, those don't go right? I have never heard of them going.. Rings yes.. but its not smoking (except at startup and only then a little bit..) It wasn't consuming oil or water, so don't have any reason to believe that they are bad.

NO leakage of fluids prior to this, so the various gaskets etc. should be pretty much OK I think? I did take off the cover on the front cams and noticed it was somewhat cracked in the corners and seemed dry and brittle, so they will both be replaced at minimum besides what ever major mechanical needs done.

I have a source for new heads, so will be calling him. By the way, do any of you know if there are any members of the forums in the Phoenix AZ area?

THANKS for all your help guys!! This forum is not only great, its INVALUABLE!

Martin

Chandler AZ

[Toysrme]

What about the springs etc. UNDER the shims? Could it be one of them that is broken? I think what ever it is it is in the rear bank of cyls.

Sure you can break one, but that'd be the first broken stock valvespring I've ever seen, or heard of. The intro to about every engine section in every Lexus/Toyots engine repair manual states at some point "Exhaust and intake valves are equipped with irregular pitch springs made of special valve spring carbon steel which are capable of functioning no matter what the engine speed."

I have a question also. Once you take out the overhead cam, how do you tell how to get it back exactly as it came out?

It's simple. The bottom end is set to 0*btdc intake strong, the cams themselves have alignment marks used during assembly.. (In the case of the v6's, dots on the camshaft intermesh gears inside the head. Align the dots, the valvetrain is in time.)

My mechanic quoted about $1400 to do this job, which I DON'T have! I would like to do as much as I can myself, I have done engine work on other vehicles just not Toy's/Lexus. Chevy mostly. And nothing quite this major.

Well... They're simpler & easier to work on once you create some space. I always hear non import mechanics complaining about import engines, but frankly... Anyone ever actually tried to pull the heads off any v8 still in the engine bay? That crap is physical. Just abit more room to work with.

Toysrme257th, can I trade emails with you directly? I don't log on to the forums but about once a week, I check emails daily.

Sure man. AIM/Yahoo it if you wanna talk about it too. If i'm not logged in on a computer somewhere, THe cellphone is logged in so...

I guess my question for you is how do you KNOW if its blown up? And what do you MEAN exactly by that?

Your description tells us that it's knocking, overheating, is stalling, loosing coolant, was some mixing of oil in the coolant. It's most likely blown a head gasket.

I don't see how the iron core can go bad. The pistons should still be good along with the crankshaft, those don't go right? I have never heard of them going.. Rings yes.. but its not smoking (except at startup and only then a little bit..) It wasn't consuming oil or water, so don't have any reason to believe that they are bad.

The iron block will be fine. The pistons will be fine. The rings are probably worn at that age, but warming it up & doing a compression / leakdown test will tell ya the general condition of them.

Valve stem seals are no biggie. A replacement intake & exhaust set cost like $3-4-5 dollars. Cheap.

If you don't think it's blown up, warm up the engine & do a compresson/leakdown test to be sure. Be sure to record the numbers for each cylinder & let us know.