About To Buy Gs... But Need Advice

[geekpipe]

Hi,

Ready to pull the trigger on a used GS but torn between two. One is an 01 GS430 for $25k and another is 02 GS300 for $24k. Both have mid 30's on miles and are certified. Which makes more sense... the bigger motor or the newer car? I am torn!

Then if we throw an 03 in for $28k does this make more sense as it is newer than the 02? Is $4k worth one model year everything else being equal? I think 28k is high for an 03 with no nav or levinson. But thats just me.

Of course I would love to buy an 06 but unless they can do something great the payment would be a bit much...

thanks for any help given...it is appreciated.

Kevin

[SRK]

Buy the newest V-8 you can afford. Forget about the GS300. Forget about ML sound or nav or whatever. Get the big engine.

I like big engines.

[geekpipe]

lol.... but its a year older... and more money.

Buy the newest V-8 you can afford. Forget about the GS300. Forget about ML sound or nav or whatever. Get the big engine.

I like big engines.

[vtmodern]

Hi,

Ready to pull the trigger on a used GS but torn between two. One is an 01 GS430 for $25k and another is 02 GS300 for $24k. Both have mid 30's on miles and are certified. Which makes more sense... the bigger motor or the newer car? I am torn!

Then if we throw an 03 in for $28k does this make more sense as it is newer than the 02? Is $4k worth one model year everything else being equal? I think 28k is high for an 03 with no nav or levinson. But thats just me.

Of course I would love to buy an 06 but unless they can do something great the payment would be a bit much...

thanks for any help given...it is appreciated.

Kevin

Hi Kevin,

Here is how I would go about it:

Go to this site and look at the TSBs (service bulletins) for the various years.

http://www.clublexus.com/index.php/article/archive/20/

I bought a 2002 GS300 recently and I wish I had found a later model 2002 or a 2003 GS300. My serial number falls in a range that has some squeaks and rattles from the suspension. I didn't think it would be a big deal to correct them, but once I started looking at the work, I realized that it will cost me a weekend of work and some parts. I think during late 2002 and 2003, the 2nd generation GS got finally as good as they would ever be. BTW, there is also a small problem with the transmission and engine software that Lexus will correct under the emissions warranty if you complain. It shows as a rough shift from 2-3, but under somewhat unpredicatble circumstances. That's covered in those TSBs for the 2002MY that you will find at the above link.

You are also getting some left-over warranty with a 2003, and possibly none with a 2002. I didn't really expect to need any warranty work, but as it turned out, the dealers are brutal after the warranty expires.

I am partial to the in-line 6 cylider engine. You can actually work on it! It's an amazingly wonderful and reliable engine, the only significant service it requires is a timing belt replacement at 90k miles.

If you do like more power (but also more weight), then the V8 may appeal to you. Otherwise, I see no advantage as the 3L engine is really smooth.

[geekpipe]

Car is certified though....

How do you know when it was made or if it is late 2002?

thanks kevin

[SRK]

I believe the weight difference is about thirty pounds. Sometime in the past this was discussed.

Neither engine requires much work, and every car will be out of warranty at some point, and Lexus is the best car to own without a warranty in the first place. I mean, would anyone consider driving an Audi anywhere without a warranty? Or a Benz? Or a Jag?

[geekpipe]

so which would you do... 01, 02 or 03?

thanks

[vtmodern]

Car is certified though....

How do you know when it was made or if it is late 2002?

thanks kevin

Hi Kevin,

The manufacturing date and serial no. are on a label which you can see on the post when you open the driver's door. The following applies to the GS300 serial numbers (not GS430):

Serial numbers JT8BD69S#20172604 and up have all the fixes for 2002, so all else being equal, I would get one of those.

Serial JT8BD69S#20165000 and below can have the suspension rattles that I mentioned.

Inbetween those two SN, there are some minor improvements, nothing so important to stop one from buying the car. I am however very disappointed by the suspension rattles, so I would pay attention to that, and if the car you are interested in has those noises, I would ask the dealer to fix all that before you sign anything. The noises are most audible when driving slowly on bumps. Most of these rattles happen on smaller bumps. Also, listen for creaks when pulling into driveways. A real shame - otherwise a very quiet car!

Remember one thing: the warranty is worthless if there is no competent technician to repair the car. It's best to get a car that doesn't need to see the service department in the first place.

[geekpipe]

hmm seems the one i am looking at is lower. So what shoudl i do ? Show them the bulletins and ask them to fix it or might it have been fixed under the certified review?

[THE ONE]

hmm seems the one i am looking at is lower. So what shoudl i do ? Show them the bulletins and ask them to fix it or might it have been fixed under the certified review?

YES!!!

[vtmodern]

hmm seems the one i am looking at is lower. So what shoudl i do ? Show them the bulletins and ask them to fix it or might it have been fixed under the certified review?

Unfortunately, they will not do any work voluntarily unless you demonstrate the problem and complain about it in no uncertain terms. Even then, my dealer was skirting the issue and never admitted to the existence of the TSBs. I had to find the TSBs myself after the fact to learn what is going on. You may however get lucky with your dealer's service department. Definitely prepare by reading all the bulletins that relate to the car you are considering - I wish I had done that.

I understand that for about $10, you can buy a 24 hour membership in the Lexus/Toyota technical information database. Here is the link:

http://techinfo.lexus.com/

That site may contain more TSBs and it will cover all models as well as model years.

After I bought the car, I ended up spending a lot of money at the dealer on rattle repairs. They didn't end up fixing any of them. At that point, it became obvious to me that they have nothing to lose by charging for "troubleshooting time" until I get tired of throwing my money away. That's why I would go in well prepared and test the car for rattles and noises. The only time you have a negotiating advantage is before you sign the deal. My impression is that the service department will take their own sales people more seriously than the owner of a car, so I would form a good working relationship with the salesman.

Even with a certified car warranty, I would find it tiresome to make repeat vists to the dealer - it's just better not to have to go there or argue about the work done / not done. It's such a waste of time and energy.

Not all the cars in the SN range have the rattles I mention. The stabilizer bar problem that's described in one of the TSBs is very common, you can almost count on it. It is also the most trivial one to take care of. One of the TSBs says that at a certain VIN they changed the design so those bolts wouldn't fall out any more. I think it's fine to get the car with the older design as long as you check those bolts once in awhile. The squeak from the front strut spring is not so common. I also had a very annoying clonking noise that turned out to be related to the top strut mount.

The one kind of rattle you don't want to deal with is in the dashboard. Taking dashboards apart and putting them back together is a job for meticulous and experienced technicians. There is one common rattle that appears to be in the dashboard, but it's actually on the other side of the windshield (outside). It's the plastic cowl under the wipers. I am really glad I found that one before doing any work on the dashboard, or worse yet, paying the dealer to do it!

These cars have the potential to be extremely quiet when they are put together correctly. This is why rattles that would not bother you on other cars become very annoying.

Also, make sure that the car didn't have any body repairs done. Body shops are under pressure to get the cars out fast and it can often happen that things no longer work and fit as well as when new after even smaller repairs. Dealers will generally not admit to any body repairs unless they are registered in the Carfax report.

I don't mean to dissuade you from any of the cars you mentioned, they are all good cars.

I am not that familiar with the GS430. The problems I read about relate to failed starters and idle speed problems. I don't know how common those are. I do know a couple of independent Toyota repair shops that will not work on Lexi(SP?) with V8 engines - too built up, they say. Keep in mind that you may want an independent shop to do some service on your car. Toyota shops are less expensive and there are more of them to choose from. The engine in the GS300 is similar to the one in the Toyota Supra.

Best luck!

[nc211]

Buy the 2001 GS430....you will NOT be dissappointed. However, I assume you've driven both of them? The V6 could possibly, remotely, not likely, but possibly, have sludge problems. I've never heard of the V8's every having this problem. In all honesty, you'll be fine with whatever GS you buy with those mileage numbers. You have nothing to worry about. No car is perfect, but I can tell you that Lexus cars are as close to it that you can get. The V8 just puuurrrrssss down the road, and when you want to pass someone, or put a little kick in your pants, it's just a 1/4 inch of the gas pedal!

If I had the choice...It would be the 430, no doubt about it, no questions asked. Both are awesome cars, and I'll probably be looking for one by the end of the year myself. But the V8 engines in these cars are world class leaders in every category. So is the V6, but for roughly the same money, you get a V8, that get's 20 city / 25-26 hwy mpg. You won't be dissapointed in whatever you get though.

PS: YES, it's worth the extra $1,000!!

[geekpipe]

yes but it is only 1000 but another year older... I appreciate the help.. but for my sanity I may investigate a newer year 430 and 300 such as 2003+ If i am paying and financing.. i almost would feel justified spending more $$ on a newer car .. wonder if I can swing a new 300....

[vtmodern]

... The V6 could possibly, remotely, not likely, but possibly, have sludge problems. I've never heard of the V8's every having this problem....

But the V8 engines in these cars are world class leaders in every category. So is the V6, but for roughly the same money, you get a V8, that get's 20 city / 25-26 hwy mpg.

The 1998-2005 GS300 has the in-line six, not the V6 with the potential sludge problem. The sludge V6 was found in Camrys, the ES300 and some other Lexus vehicles (maybe the RS??? - I am not sure). The in-line six is a superb engine, just like the V8, absolutely no history of sludge problems ever.

If you like extra power above all else, the V8 is probably the better choice for you. Maybe I have mellowed out a lot with age, so the GS300 has all the power I need.

The 2006 GS300 has a V6, but I doubt that it has any sludge problems. I think it's a brand new design. My main concern with the 2006 GS300 is that it's the first production year. I prefer to wait until the factory has figured out all the problems, even with a Lexus. I like the interior of the 2006 better than that of the 2nd gen. However, I am not impressed with the tiny trunk opening and several features that sacrifice function for looks. The 2006 seems a little lower, which I like. I also like the gas shocks for the trunk lid as opposed to the lever arms that destroy luggage.

If you are considering a 2006, check a few posts from owners on this forum and the Club Lexus forum. You may get a better idea of what they are dealing with.

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=153

[SRK]

yes but it is only 1000 but another year older... I appreciate the help.. but for my sanity I may investigate a newer year 430 and 300 such as 2003+ If i am paying and financing.. i almost would feel justified spending more $$ on a newer car .. wonder if I can swing a new 300....

It may just be a question of sanity.....choices, choices.......have you ever purchased a car before?

[geekpipe]

lol 5 cars in 4 years... just want one i like enough to keep :)

[melhadri]

I currently own a black/ivory 98' ES300. I love this car but I think its almost time (6-12 mo.) I look for something a little newer and one that I would like to keep for the next 5 yrs. The GS model is also at the top of my list. Great blend of luxury and sport, Lexus quality, and fantastic market value...

I set a budget for myself , $28-$29k. After doing some shopping I was able to find very few low mileage 03' GS430's w/ Nav Lev system w/in this price range. At the outset, I thought about getting an 01' but decided I wanted a newer year model even though the cars are identical. My only concern in the V8 is gas mileage and regular maintenance costs. I completely understand the ES300 is cheaper to maintain and service but honestly what type of a jump am I looking at for a GS430? 10-15%?

[TallTexasLexus]

yes but it is only 1000 but another year older... I appreciate the help.. but for my sanity I may investigate a newer year 430 and 300 such as 2003+ If i am paying and financing.. i almost would feel justified spending more $$ on a newer car .. wonder if I can swing a new 300....

It may just be a question of sanity.....choices, choices.......have you ever purchased a car before?

Just get a gs400. I bought my gs400 1999 6 months ago for $16,000. It has 84,000 miles now and drives/looks like a brand new car. Why blow $10,000 extra?

[forteatwo]

yes but it is only 1000 but another year older... I appreciate the help.. but for my sanity I may investigate a newer year 430 and 300 such as 2003+ If i am paying and financing.. i almost would feel justified spending more $$ on a newer car .. wonder if I can swing a new 300....

It may just be a question of sanity.....choices, choices.......have you ever purchased a car before?

I cannot imagine anyone needing more power than the refined acceleration provided by the GS300. I purchased an '04 GS300 about a month ago. My last car was a MB E300. The GS is much faster than the Mercedes, although the MB soaks up the bumps better and as an aside, has the best seats ever devised by man (or engineer) But my point is the acceleration in this car is quite enough for me. Point of fact, I was recntly in a situation where I had to pass two semis on a two lane road. Without the transmission even kicking down a gear, I passed them both going from 55mph to 95mph in the space of both vehicles. Frankly I was surprised to see how fast I was going at the end of the passing zone. Had I goosed it, I am sure I would have been going over 100mph. Why bother with a V8, unless you are into drag racing.

[SRK]

I can't imagine anyone not wanting MORE power. The GS400 is fast, but I could use a bit more.

Pal of mine who used to ice race (studded tires made with bolts and inner tubes) said "You know you have enough power when you have to back out of it", meaning that you have to lift off the throttle because it is too scary to use full power. The GS400 doesn't do that to me.

I built a 427 Cobra replica a few years back, but I built a full house 460 Ford for it. About 450 hp, 500 odd foot pounds in a 2700 pound car. I couldn't get the throttle to the floor when I first started driving it, but eventually I got used to it, and then I wanted more. Like a 514 stroker motor, with Holley Pro-Jection fuel management........

[KANEDL]

I can't imagine anyone not wanting MORE power. The GS400 is fast, but I could use a bit more.

Pal of mine who used to ice race (studded tires made with bolts and inner tubes) said "You know you have enough power when you have to back out of it", meaning that you have to lift off the throttle because it is too scary to use full power. The GS400 doesn't do that to me.

I built a 427 Cobra replica a few years back, but I built a full house 460 Ford for it. About 450 hp, 500 odd foot pounds in a 2700 pound car. I couldn't get the throttle to the floor when I first started driving it, but eventually I got used to it, and then I wanted more. Like a 514 stroker motor, with Holley Pro-Jection fuel management........

Power is nice to have but think about it honestly, unless you're using your car for competition what is the use of all that power. Are you going to be racing on the highway? Don't get me wrong I want to upgrade my car and get some more horsepower out of it but I don't need 500-600hp. I want to turbo it just want to get maybe 350hp out of it. I do think the GS3 is a bit sluggish and wish I would have opted for a GS4 but I'll get the power I need some day. And honestly, if you put that much power into your daily driver you're just asking for trouble, tickets, accidents and possibly death. So just think about that because everybody wants more power but ask yourself do you really need THAT much power.

[SRK]

Well of course you are right. I don't need any more power than the GS400 has, but I want it. I definitely will not be modifying the engine in any way. I like the car so much overall in stock condition that it makes no sense to do so.

I have raced in Solo events, and I am not beyond a good street race every now and then, even at my advanced age (50). Keeps ya young and in good "tune".

[sidneyj]

I believe the weight difference is about thirty pounds. Sometime in the past this was discussed.

Neither engine requires much work, and every car will be out of warranty at some point, and Lexus is the best car to own without a warranty in the first place. I mean, would anyone consider driving an Audi anywhere without a warranty? Or a Benz? Or a Jag?

May have been mentioned but the 2003 GS 430 is 66 lbs heavier then the 2003 GS 300 according to the GS catalog.