Falken Ziex 512 Mistake!

SW03ES · February 3, 2006

I've driven three sets of SP Sport 4000s on the LS in the winter and didn't feel that they made the car any worse in the snow than any of the other sets of tires the car had.

As for an Ultra High Performance tire (the Dunlop SP Sport 4000 were OEM on the ES and LS for many years, as well as on the Camry BTW) thats not really the issue, the issue is the hardness of the rubber compound and the aggressiveness of the tread pattern. The Falkens have a harder rubber compound (longer life) and a more aggressive directional tread pattern, both things that contribute to harder ride and higher noise levels. Better grip maybe, but niether car is a sports car by any stretch of the imagination, and both have extensive skid control devices so its really a non-issue. If you look at the tires Lexus puts on these cars OEM, they are ALMOST ALWAYS Ultra High Performance tires.

I also ran a set of SP Sport 5000s (symmetrical) on the LS, which were louder and developed vibration as they aged, the 4000 is a much nicer tire.

I think second to the MXV4s the 4000s were the quietest tires I've ever had. The two are probably equal in noise level. Never got more than 25-30k out of one set, but at $100 a peice installed, they're a lot cheaper than the Michelins.

Lexusfreak · February 3, 2006

If you look at the tires Lexus puts on these cars OEM, they are ALMOST ALWAYS Ultra High Performance tires.

Well perhaps....I'd sure like to know what Lexus was thinking with the Bridgestone RE 92's as an OE tire over the years (I'm guessing fuel economy was much more important & won over the safety factor of good grip.....even in light rain). The MXV4's are catagorized as a 'grand touring all season' tire though. But understood about the Dunlop's. B)

ArmyofOne · February 3, 2006

If you look at the tires Lexus puts on these cars OEM, they are ALMOST ALWAYS Ultra High Performance tires.

Well perhaps....I'd sure like to know what Lexus was thinking with the Bridgestone RE 92's as an OE tire over the years (I'm guessing fuel economy was much more important & won over the safety factor of good grip.....even in light rain). The MXV4's are catagorized as a 'grand touring all season' tire though. But understood about the Dunlop's. B)

well, i can say this, i will be purchasing a 1998-2001LS when i return from Iraq. It WILL have falkens on it.

^low profile? those look like low profile? hardly.

i have found, with the falkens, the best ride/grip is acheived between 28 and 33 Psi. this accelerates wear a little bit, but not much. I have had my falkens on my escort for 10K of Spirited driving. no signs of wear. they make my escort sound very similar to my ES in terms of road noise. almost nothing.

I REFUSE to pay $170 per tire or more for an MXV4...my mother had them on her last car (Concorde Limited) and i COULD NOT STAND THEM. went to falkens for christmas. and her camry, has falkens too. my brothers ranger has them as well.

My ONLY complaint about these tires, is that when the temp is cold (below 30) and the roads are dry, its easy to leave rubber behind in the first 10 minutes of driving. you have already dropped the pressure, and you still arent happy, i would be more than happy to buy them from you, but i dont have an application for them as of yet, i have 195/60/VR15 and they almost rub, a 205/65.15 would not only look rediculously large, it would rub my struts...otherwise i would have ben more than happy to buy them from you for the price you paid, minus install and sales tax. Im sorry you werent happy with your purchase. Cant please everybody.

SW03ES · February 4, 2006

I know you like the Falkens, but you haven't compared them to other quality tires on these particular cars. I'm not saying they're a bad tire, I'm just saying they're not stellar in the qualities that make a Lexus ride the best it can. There are many much better options, as we've seen here with the members who have been dissapointed in these tires the instant they're mounted on their cars. The fact that they make your Escort as quiet as your ES250 was, when your ES250 was 15 years old and in need of many repairs and was never an especially quiet car, nor engineered as a Lexus, isn't particularly good evidence.

And no, I'm not saying that your tires are low profile. I'm saying the tires are designed as low profile tires with an aggressive directional tread pattern, hard rubber compounds. They're designed to be a cheap tire with an aggressive look that gets decent life for cars like Civics, Neons, or your Escort with upgraded wheel packages. Just because they put the same tread on wider sidewalls doesn't change the fact that the tires are designed for a low profile application first and foremost. Thats the bulk of their business, they sell them here at Ricer shops for Civics with neons and strobe lights.

You can put them on your future LS if you want, but it'll be a shame. Trust me, I have FAR more experience with this car than you do, being that you have none ;)

As for the Michelins, if they last past 50k then they'll be worth the money. I've never had tires last past ~30k on a Lexus. Remember all cars are different, while the Michelins might not have been well suited for the application on your mother's Concorde, they are suited well for the use on a Lexus. Remember that we've run 11 different sets of tires on LS sedans. The Michelins are tied with the Dunlops for maximizing the smooth and quiet ride, but the Dunlops had very breif life.

ArmyofOne · February 4, 2006

I know you like the Falkens, but you haven't compared them to other quality tires on these particular cars. I'm not saying they're a bad tire, I'm just saying they're not stellar in the qualities that make a Lexus ride the best it can. There are many much better options, as we've seen here with the members who have been dissapointed in these tires the instant they're mounted on their cars. The fact that they make your Escort as quiet as your ES250 was, when your ES250 was 15 years old and in need of many repairs and was never an especially quiet car, nor engineered as a Lexus, isn't particularly good evidence.

And no, I'm not saying that your tires are low profile. I'm saying the tires are designed as low profile tires with an aggressive directional tread pattern, hard rubber compounds. They're designed to be a cheap tire with an aggressive look that gets decent life for cars like Civics, Neons, or your Escort with upgraded wheel packages. Just because they put the same tread on wider sidewalls doesn't change the fact that the tires are designed for a low profile application first and foremost. Thats the bulk of their business, they sell them here at Ricer shops for Civics with neons and strobe lights.

You can put them on your future LS if you want, but it'll be a shame. Trust me, I have FAR more experience with this car than you do, being that you have none ;)

As for the Michelins, if they last past 50k then they'll be worth the money. I've never had tires last past ~30k on a Lexus. Remember all cars are different, while the Michelins might not have been well suited for the application on your mother's Concorde, they are suited well for the use on a Lexus. Remember that we've run 11 different sets of tires on LS sedans. The Michelins are tied with the Dunlops for maximizing the smooth and quiet ride, but the Dunlops had very breif life.

thast just it though, they arent a hard tire, they are made from a soft silica compound, to maximize grip and road comfort thats direct from thier website.

but ok, if you say so. I say that nearly $200 for a single tire is rediculous. Period. I refuse to pay that much.

SW03ES · February 4, 2006

Army, if they have a 60,000 mile treadwear warranty they're made of harder rubber compounds than a tire with a 40k warranty or no warranty. That coupled with the fact that they're a directional tires (directional tires have greater handling and water shedding abilities but it comes at the expense of road noise) and have a wide blocked aggressive tread pattern make them poorly suited to a Lexus.

And if you think $200 a tire is too much to spend (I'm not saying the MXV4s are the only option, I'm saying there are several better ones than the Falkens) for tires on a $70,000 Lexus you better not ever buy anything with factory 17s, 18s, 19s, or nowadays 20s. Try spending $300+ a tire every 10k miles.

Lexusfreak · February 4, 2006

And if you think $200 a tire is too much to spend (I'm not saying the MXV4s are the only option, I'm saying there are several better ones than the Falkens) for tires on a $70,000 Lexus you better not ever buy anything with factory 17s, 18s, 19s, or nowadays 20s. Try spending $300+ a tire every 10k miles.

I think Michelin overprices their tires to begin with & yes I think close to $200 (at least in Canadian dollars for my sizes) a tire is too much to spend for an 'average' tire at best which the MXV4's are.

sw, you emphasize road noise above many other factors in a tire (which a tire like the TT's have in spades to begin with).......I lean more towards poor weather grip & the safety aspects that go along with that higher on the list (overall value is up there too) when choosing tires (again, everybody is different in what they look for when choosing tires) so it all comes down to what the particular person is looking for their vehicles.....I understand & respect that you have much more experence with a specific vehicle like the LS more so than many of us....that's more than fair & I won't contest that......however the MXV4's are getting 'long in the tooth' & their cycle life is near it's end soon (I know they have 'updated' them recently as well).

Not many like the fact they have to pay a high premium for a tire (and to some degree the name) that's been around since the 90's when one can choose something with higher technology, longer life & that is less expensive. ;) Just my 2 cents.

:cheers:

SW03ES · February 4, 2006

I'm not saying Michelin doesn't overprice their tires, I'm just saying you can usually count of getting a good quality product from them. Think about Sony, it'll cost more than anything else but you KNOW it will last and it will work as advertised. Average tire maybe, but they're quieter than any other tire I've ever had on these cars. Makes them extraordinary in my book.

Thats another difference between us, I personally don't see the point in re-inventing the wheel. You put stock in the latest greatest tires with the best ad campaigns (the Goodyears), while I'm only interested in time tested tires letting everyone else be the guinea pigs before me.

Lexusfreak · February 4, 2006

I'm not saying Michelin doesn't overprice their tires, I'm just saying you can usually count of getting a good quality product from them. Think about Sony, it'll cost more than anything else but you KNOW it will last and it will work as advertised. Average tire maybe, but they're quieter than any other tire I've ever had on these cars. Makes them extraordinary in my book.

Thats another difference between us, I personally don't see the point in re-inventing the wheel. You put stock in the latest greatest tires with the best ad campaigns (the Goodyears), while I'm only interested in time tested tires letting everyone else be the guinea pigs before me.

I'm more partial to JVC when it comes to electronics myself lol......I haven't had the greatest luck with Sony over the years actually (and everyone told me they were the best). ;) So no I know that Sony was expensive & it did not last. :whistles:

The TT's were out well over a year before I 'pulled the trigger' on them........I wasen't one of the first out of the blocks & rushed to install them. I felt that was a decent amount of time to get feedback before I made that decision. ;)

:cheers:

98es · February 4, 2006

Well, here's what I think. You CANNOT compare the michie's to the falkens. There really is no comparison in my opinion, because they're designed for different cars. The falken suits army's escort, and the michie's suit the lexus. I feel fairly qualified in my opinion because i own cars with both MXV4+ and falken 512's. I understand we all have our brand loyalties, but I would have to agree that putting falken's on a LS would be a shame. If you can afford Lexus' top of the line flagship model, i assume you can afford some decent tires designed for a luxury car.

Now that being said, inflating the cost of the michie's doesn't make the falken's a better tire. I only paid about $145 per tire installed WITH tax for my MXV4+'s (V rated) on my 98 ES300 and am very happy with them. I agree that $200 per tire is rediculous, I wouldn't pay that much either. But we're not comparing apples to apples here guys, these are different tires.

Lexusfreak · February 4, 2006

Like I've mentioned before.....everyone looks for different things in tires. I'm glad your happy with your Michelins 98es.......they should provide you with good service. B)

I agree that were not comparing apples to apples.

:cheers:

ArmyofOne · February 4, 2006

Say what you want SW. Your not going to convince me of anything. It is my choice. I CAN afford to put those michelins on an LS, i just REFUSE to afford it. If i have to sacrifice some road noise on a tire thats tested tried and true through me time and time again...then so be it. I WILL NOT PAY the premiums of other tire companies. Cause the bottom line is, road noise in a Lexus is virtually nonexistant anyways. ESPECIALLY an LS. Im not saying i woudl never put the michelins on...but someone would have to buy them for me, or i would have to find a good set on ebay.

Besides, if i cared about comfort, i wouldnt put aftermarket wheels on anything. I care about grip overall, the falkens havent beaten any other tire out for grip in any category, and you know i have had alot of tires because my previous professions required ALOT of driving.

These tire debates are getting old...much like the oil or coolant debates.

Im out.

98es · February 4, 2006

lol... after reading back through all these replies i realize how big headed us guys are (especially me). So I apoligize for being so opinionated... they're just tires! haha LF i really appreciate the way you state your opinion, always considerate of everyone else.. i wish i could say the same for myself! It's funny how we've all gotten into a peeing match and the original poster is nowhere to be found, we left him a long time ago!

Lexusfreak · February 4, 2006

lol... after reading back through all these replies i realize how big headed us guys are (especially me). So I apoligize for being so opinionated... they're just tires! haha LF i really appreciate the way you state your opinion, always considerate of everyone else.. i wish i could say the same for myself! It's funny how we've all gotten into a peeing match and the original poster is nowhere to be found, we left him a long time ago!

I appreciate that 98es B) Nothing has to turn into a peeing contest......eveyone has their opinions & it's all good.....I think sw & I have a tendency to butt heads on occasion, especially in the tire forums as it's a hot button subject to us for some reason :blink: .......but I guess we amuse other members if make them roll their eyes every once in a while too......it's all in good fun. I hope those searching for tire advice look at both sides of the debate. :)

:cheers:

SW03ES · February 4, 2006

Cause the bottom line is, road noise in a Lexus is virtually nonexistant anyways. ESPECIALLY an LS.

With all due respect, you know absolutely nothing about the LS. Like I said, I've had over 200,000 miles worth of experience on the LS with over 11 sets of tires on this particular model. The type of tire is extremely important to the ride and comfort of this vehicle. Road noise is not at all nonexistant on a Lexus, in fact with the wrong tires an LS will be as loud as a Jeep on mud tires. What makes Lexus vehicles so quiet is excellent engineering and stopping noise at the source, with excellent bushings, tires, and low drag coefficients. They have less sound deadening than other luxury cars. Like I said before, you can put ANY tire on a Lincoln for instance and it'll ride good and be quiet, that is NOT the case on the Lexus.

I'm not saying you have to buy the MXV4s, I'm just saying the Falken is not the right tire.

Besides, if i cared about comfort, i wouldnt put aftermarket wheels on anything. I care about grip overall, the falkens havent beaten any other tire out for grip in any category

Why waste your money on an LS then?

I appreciate that 98es B) Nothing has to turn into a peeing contest......eveyone has their opinions & it's all good.....I think sw & I have a tendency to butt heads on occasion, especially in the tire forums as it's a hot button subject to us for some reason .......but I guess we amuse other members if make them roll their eyes every once in a while too......it's all in good fun. I hope those searching for tire advice look at both sides of the debate. :)

Yeah I personally really enjoy our tire duke outs LOL

We always stay friendly and respectful, so its no big deal.

Lexusfreak · February 4, 2006

Yeah I personally really enjoy our tire duke outs LOL

We always stay friendly and respectful, so its no big deal.

As do I sw & we keep things civil for the most part as well. B) ;)

:cheers:

SW03ES · February 4, 2006

You *BLEEP* the hell out of me sometimes, but I always cool off LOL

Lexusfreak · February 4, 2006

You *BLEEP* the hell out of me sometimes, but I always cool off LOL

Well, ruffle a few feathers on occasion is what I do. :whistles: ;) I think were both stubborn for lack of a better term, wouldn't you agree? :P

:cheers:

ArmyofOne · February 4, 2006

Why should i buy an LS? I will buy an LS because I like it. Because i want to. If i did everything because someone else wanted me to, i would never get anywhere in life. THE SAME REASON i will put whatever tires i so desire on it. End of discussion.

I will not make any mention of Falkens again. You seem to think they are not tires suited to a Lexus, as such they need not be mentioned here anymore.

Give it a rest. I have said what I have to say, you have too. Let the public make their own judgement. No reason to continuously walk all over my opinion.

SW03ES · February 4, 2006

Well, ruffle a few feathers on occasion is what I do. :whistles: ;) I think were both stubborn for lack of a better term, wouldn't you agree? :P

I think stubborn is a good word for both of us LOL

Why should i buy an LS? I will buy an LS because I like it. THE SAME REASON i will put whatever tires i so desire on it. End of discussion.

Well apparently you don't like it, because as you said you don't care as much about a smooth and quiet ride, which is basically all the LS is good at. Its not appreciably fast, flashy, its not that spacious, but it rides smoother and quieter than any other car on the road. To spoil that with 19s and Falkens is a waste of money IMHO. You'd be better off buying a GS.

You need to quit getting all butt hurt about these things (thats my new term for the day I think, butt hurt), they're just opinions.

ArmyofOne · February 4, 2006

Oh and uh...i just saved a bunch of money on car insurance by switching to geico :P

Well, ruffle a few feathers on occasion is what I do.:whistles: ;) I think were both stubborn for lack of a better term, wouldn't you agree? :P

I think stubborn is a good word for both of us LOL

Why should i buy an LS? I will buy an LS because I like it. THE SAME REASON i will put whatever tires i so desire on it. End of discussion.

Well apparently you don't like it, because as you said you don't care as much about a smooth and quiet ride, which is basically all the LS is good at. Its not appreciably fast, flashy, its not that spacious, but it rides smoother and quieter than any other car on the road. To spoil that with 19s and Falkens is a waste of money IMHO. You'd be better off buying a GS.

You need to quit getting all butt hurt about these things (thats my new term for the day I think, butt hurt), they're just opinions.

I do love it, i love the way it looks. I love the way it feels. I love the way it drives. I love everything about the car...ESPECIALLY the reliability. I didnt say i was putting 19's on either. I was thinking 22" HRE's with a VIP bodykit from D2-Autosport and a 2.5 inch drop. Limo tint all around, and lovin every minture of it.

Opinions are liek *BLEEP*s we all have one. SW i hold no personal grudges agains anyone, least of all you. your a man whos opinion i can respect 99.9% of the time. BUT I STILL DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW YOU CAN EXCLUDE SOMETHING YOU HAVE NEVER TRIED?!

I will at least try something once before i critisize it. I WILL try the falkens on an LS. Nobody else here has. I will report my findings. Im interested in only facts, as you are. if they are bad, i will say so. I dont mind wasting $250-$300 if in the interest of a debate. cause i know I can deal with the noise for the diration of the tire life. Im jumping from an Escort to an LS for crists sake. BF Goodrich all terrains will be quieter on an LS than this thing was when i got it. the falkens made it quiter...if thay make the LS louder, i will try something else, and i will publicly admit i was wrong, as i always do.

SW03ES · February 4, 2006

I do love it, i love the way it looks. I love the way it feels. I love the way it drives. I love everything about the car...ESPECIALLY the reliability. I didnt say i was putting 19's on either. I was thinking 22" HRE's with a VIP bodykit from D2-Autosport and a 2.5 inch drop. Limo tint all around, and lovin every minture of it.

Well, with 22s and a 2.5 inch drop it will feel amd drive more like a International 18 wheeler than an LS lol

BUT I STILL DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW YOU CAN EXCLUDE SOMETHING YOU HAVE NEVER TRIED?!

I've tried enough similar types of tires on the LS to know that directional tires with high treadwear warranties are too hard and loud for the LS.

Im jumping from an Escort to an LS for crists sake. BF Goodrich all terrains will be quieter on an LS

You'd be surprised.

pearlwhite97ES · February 4, 2006

LoL this all started with a opinion of mine about these tires.

I've changed air pressure and I've gave them a chance. I've read

all posts and come to this conclusion.

Army: gets 1 dollar for every falken tire sold.

Lexusfreak: gets 50 cents from army on every falken tire sold.

SW: knows what I mean about the ride, and has to pay 50

cents for every falken sold.

Pearlwhite: Bought the wrong falken tire for his car ,and is waiting for

taxes to fix this little problem.

98 es: loves his lexus and this website.

thought I'd had a little humor to this posts and its characters

SW03ES · February 4, 2006

LOL, this is all your fault.

ArmyofOne · February 4, 2006

I do love it, i love the way it looks. I love the way it feels. I love the way it drives. I love everything about the car...ESPECIALLY the reliability. I didnt say i was putting 19's on either. I was thinking 22" HRE's with a VIP bodykit from D2-Autosport and a 2.5 inch drop. Limo tint all around, and lovin every minture of it.

Well, with 22s and a 2.5 inch drop it will feel amd drive more like a International 18 wheeler than an LS lol

BUT I STILL DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW YOU CAN EXCLUDE SOMETHING YOU HAVE NEVER TRIED?!

I've tried enough similar types of tires on the LS to know that directional tires with high treadwear warranties are too hard and loud for the LS.

Im jumping from an Escort to an LS for crists sake. BF Goodrich all terrains will be quieter on an LS

You'd be surprised.

the bodykit and 22's was a joke, i would never cannibalize an LS like that.

Ok. You have tried similar types if tires. I will try this one and report my findings to you.

Your right, i have been in the past. ;)

oh and uh, pearl white:

I dont recieve any money, i just like the tires. nothing wrong with that. you dont liek them, nothing wrong with that either. I would still buy them off of you if i had an application for them.

For my purposes, they will suit me fine. :)