wwest Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 Yesterday the battery on our 92 LS was completely drained and I installed a new one and then discovered it wouldn't charge. Sure enough the power stearing pump has been leaking... Is the alternator really truly damaged or are is the slip ring so covered with power stearing fluid that it cannot function? The reason I asked is that the morning I went to put a charger on the battery but started the car first just to check that there really was no charge rate... I discovered that the battery was being charged, 12.76 volts at idle and rose with engine RPM. But about 10 minutes later the battery was indicating 11.60 volts and no charge rate. Additionally it's hard for me to believe, accept, that PS fluid could damage the diodes or the regulator. Did the slip ring dry out overnight and then get recoated while the car ran this morning? I guess I'll be overhauling the PS pump this afternoon but I'll delay any work on the alternator until I hear from a few of you or it begins working again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiller91ls Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 Yes it can. yesterday while I was driving back from California, my alternator went out someware between Phoenix and the NM border, and my battery went out about 60 miles from my home. The real *BLEEP*ty part is that battery light never came on untill it was to late. Right new the car has a new battery in it and the alternator is not charging and there is no indication that there is no poblem. The lexus is designed very well, but whoever designed the insturment panel wiring and put the alternator under the PS pump should be taken out back and beaten with a 2x4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flanker271 Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 I had the same experience with alternator failing two years ago. It failed when I was on my way from Tucson Arizona to San Diego California during a vacation. The ps fluid fried the wiring inside the alternator. Trouble is, the battery light never came on, until its too late just like spiller91ls mentioned. I do get the battery light coming on when I turn my key to the accessories position, so at least I know the bulb works. You should get the alternator and ps pump replaced as soon as possible. A dead alternator can left you stranded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwest Posted June 14, 2005 Author Share Posted June 14, 2005 The question is.... Is the alternator truly damaged or do I simply need to clean the power stearing fluid out of it, off the slip ring(s)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flanker271 Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 have you checked the output amp of your alternator? I can't remember, but LS400 alternators should have an output of at least 80 amps. How long has the ps fluid been dripping on the alternator? It is possible to steam clean the alternator after the ps pump leak is fixed. But to be on the safe side I would just replace the alternator as well. Its up to you. Did the slip ring dry out overnight and then get recoated while the car ran this morning By the way, how could it dry overnight if the ps pump is constantly leaking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwest Posted June 17, 2005 Author Share Posted June 17, 2005 Well, first of all the PS fluid isn't under pressure when the car isn't running. Of course the PS could have a "gravity" leak but the more common one is when it is under pressure. The alternator does charge the battery, slightly, when the engine is above idle but not at idle as it should. I'll replace the slip ring brushes today as I do the PS overhaul and I guess we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwest Posted June 18, 2005 Author Share Posted June 18, 2005 Well, DAMN! Pulled the PS pump and installed the $44.00 rebuild kit (Lexus), no sweat. Alternator was a different story. Slip rings trotally worn through, buying rebuilt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monarch Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 Congrats! I am facing this job myself and have quite a few questions if you don't mind. Did you use the jzz30 or the planet soarer tutorial or the factory manual as a guide? Was it tricky to bleed the system of air after finishing the installation? Did you change the air control valve that is attached to the PS pump? Did you change the "main shaft bearing" that's mentioned in the planetsoarer tutorial? http://planetsoarer.com/Power%20steering%20pump.htm Did you end up using all the seals in the Toyota Reseal Kit or were some left over? Thanks alot for any help along these lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwest Posted June 18, 2005 Author Share Posted June 18, 2005 Congrats! I am facing this job myself and have quite a few questions if you don't mind. Did you use the jzz30 or the planet soarer tutorial or the factory manual as a guide? Was it tricky to bleed the system of air after finishing the installation? Did you change the air control valve that is attached to the PS pump? Did you change the "main shaft bearing" that's mentioned in the planetsoarer tutorial? http://planetsoarer.com/Power%20steering%20pump.htm Did you end up using all the seals in the Toyota Reseal Kit or were some left over? Thanks alot for any help along these lines. ← 1. jzz30 and Lexus shop manual. 2. Have to pick up rebuilt alternator at parts shop this morning so not complete re-install. 3. Air control valve, no, why? 4. Mainshaft bearing looks and feels fine. So no. 5. Wasn't able to pull the mainshaft so those two o-ring seals left over plus two others of unknown use. But kit clears says for two different pump models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadecuir Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 3. Air control valve, no, why? 4. Mainshaft bearing looks and feels fine. So no. 5. Wasn't able to pull the mainshaft so those two o-ring seals left over plus two others of unknown use. But kit clears says for two different pump models. ← If you don't pull the bearing, you can't replace the seal and o-rings that leak. Follow the tutorial, and replace ALL the seals, or you are wasting your time. The bearing will come out. Try applying a little heat to the housing with a propane torch; the coefficient of expansion for aluminum is much higher than for steel. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monarch Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 3. Air control valve, no, why? 4. Mainshaft bearing looks and feels fine. So no. ← Because the valve appears to go bad after roughly 10-15 years causing power steering fluid to be sucked into the intake manifold. See this thread http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...opic=6583&st=15 I got my valve, Toyota part no. 17630-16040 via mail order from Bob Bridge Toyota in Renton, WA for about $62-63.00 (888)-271-3948, (425)-917-2472, but WA state residents must pay sales tax and the $63 price is only for phone order / internet customers, not walk up counter sales. I havn't installed my air control valve yet, but I've heard the Reseal Kit you have contain the gasket to use on the new air control valve (where it screws onto the ps pump). jadecuir and the planet soarer website both recommend pulling the mainshaft bearing, ao you can replace the seal and o-rings that may leak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwest Posted June 19, 2005 Author Share Posted June 19, 2005 It was pretty obvious that the only leak was at the top of the pressure bypass spring/valve channel. Shaft bearing looked and "felt" okay and no leak from there so I decided to not pull the shaft. I did replace the rear o-ring. Strange thing was that the copper slip rings in the alternator had worn completely down to nothing yet it had significant slip ring bush life left. Looks like the PS leak had nothing to do with the alternator failure. Unless PS fluid softens copper..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadecuir Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 It was pretty obvious that the only leak was at the top of the pressure bypass spring/valve channel.Shaft bearing looked and "felt" okay and no leak from there so I decided to not pull the shaft. I did replace the rear o-ring. ← If the shaft seal is leaking, it doesn't get by the bearing, it comes out the weep-hole on the bottom of the housing. Save those unused seals, because you may be installing them later. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VBdenny Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 One other think you should consider is that the new battery you got is bad. My neighbor had a bad battery in his car and bought a new one. It still wouldn't start the car. I went home and got my meter and found out the new battery only had 11.2 volts. We took it to advance auto and they tested the new battery and determined it was defective. He put in a second battery and everything is fine. Just because it is new doesn't mean it is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwest Posted June 20, 2005 Author Share Posted June 20, 2005 The new battery "acted" the same way the old one did. Of course a BIG clue was the fact that when I disassembled the alternator to install new slip ring brushes I discovered that the slip rings themselves were worn completely down to the insulation covered the shaft. If the PS does continue to leak at least my knuckles will likely be healed before I tackle it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gumart1 Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 Do you have any tips for removing your alternator bolts? I am changing the alternator on my 92LS also and have tried my socket wrench w/14mm and a 2" extension and I can't get the top nut or bottom bolt to budge. I've been spraying it with Liquid Wrench but no movement yet. Also, where can I find the jzz30 tutorial? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monarch Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 I can't get the top nut or bottom bolt to budge. Also, where can I find the jzz30 tutorial? ← http://www.lexls.com/tutorials/ for the jzz30 ps tutorial. I personally think radiator removal is essential to gain working room to replace the alternator. Use a 6 point 14mm socket to obtain a good grip on the top and bottom alternator mounting bolts http://www.saber.net/~monarch/alt.JPG. If your power steering pump is leaking fluid, you can make a protective cover for the alternator out of an empty 1 gallon bottle of Chlorox http://www.saber.net/~monarch/alternatorcov.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwest Posted June 21, 2005 Author Share Posted June 21, 2005 Instead of removing the radiator I removed the fan guard shroud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gumart1 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 Already have my bleach bottle cut and wrapped nicely on my alternator thanks to your older post Monarch with the photo. Doing the same thing as you, I bought an aftermarket alternator for $115 that will do the job just fine for now. I can see that removal of the radiator would create more working space, but isn't completely necessary. But if I attack the ps pump too I might just pull it all for convenience. Thanks for the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwest Posted June 21, 2005 Author Share Posted June 21, 2005 I suspect that might make the alternator a bit too tightly wrapped. It can generate 100 amps at ~12 volts, 1200 watts of power, and probably gets pretty hot doing so. Besides which no one has yet convinced me that PS fluid can do any permanent damage to the alternator. The only damage I could think of is a thin coating on the slip rings and that can be easily wiped away if it doesn't disperse naturally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monarch Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 So far my Autozone alternator (a Denso alternator rebuilt by Bosch) has survived 3,000 miles with the cover installed. I installed the alternator cover to protect myself against becoming stranded until I have time to fix the power steering pump leak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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