Amsoil Vs Mobile 1

[TunedRX300]

Navigate around this site you will see oil study on Mobil 1 and Amsoil

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html

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I think that website - like virtually all the synthetic & specialty oil promoting websites - grossly misleads the public and especially Asian car owners. The website says: "We accept that for most people in most cars, regular old "dinosaur juice" mineral-based motor oil will work just fine. We have seen plenty of cars run beyond 150,000 miles and 200,000 miles using regular old "dinosaur juice" mineral-based motor oil stuff as long as the oil is changed regularly. However, not everyone is content with "good enough". Some consider 150,000 miles to be broken-in, and seek to double or triple that vehicle service life."

That statement is grossly misleading because it fails to inform the public that countless numbers of Toyota and other Asian car owners have driven 500,000 - 650,000 miles using conventional oil changed every 3000 - 5000 miles: http://www.saber.net/~monarch/cole2.JPG

Toyota, of course, knows its engines are engineered to run 600,000 miles on conventional oil and

that is likely one reason Toyota says the benefits of synthetic are marginal and not worth the extra cost.

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Using your argument, those who promote changing oil at 3000 miles have financial interests in Jiffy Lube or dyno juice recycling companies. They also purposely mislead consumers by urging oil change interval less than OEM recommendation.

[lexdog]

As far as extending the oil change intervals. All most likely stay in the 5000 to 7500 range. I just want the best protection for my investment.

[mburnickas]

As far as extending the oil change intervals. All most likely stay in the 5000 to 7500 range. I just want the best protection for my investment.

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I will say this to ANYONE on this forum. Post some oil tests since I see nothing, test wise, that supports dino; but going by virgin (un-used) oil analysis, 99.999% of the time synthetic will outperform dino. It comes down to you get what you pay for.

So far by my last test, synthetic WILL, again WILL outperform dino and some other synthetic's ("group 3 and group 4's) out there. And to top it off the wear numbers, in my comparsion are almost the same and my oil still had a better ZDDP.

Unless anyone here is testing their oil, they are only GUESSING here at best. I go by my testing data (raw numbers on my ES300) not going by what Toyota says for "face value" or something someone says. I did the same thing will Amsoil but their test on their oil supports what they say. "Liars can figure, but figures can lie." There add pkg is pretty good and even better on the diesel oils. There diesel oils have over 4,000 ppm of Ca!

Based on group 3, 2 & 1 gas engine oil understanding, there ZDDP will be very low and the TBN will again be low; hence low price. Most are around 8 to 9 at that group level.

[mburnickas]

As far as extending the oil change intervals. All most likely stay in the 5000 to 7500 range. I just want the best protection for my investment.

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If using dino oil (lexus/toyota) for the short drains you will be fine but I would kick it up a level and get better protection from a better oil.

[monarch]

Post some oil tests since I see nothing, test wise, that supports dino

Unless anyone here is testing their oil, they are only GUESSING here at best. I go by my testing data (raw numbers on my ES300) not going by what Toyota says for "face value"

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What test numbers could be more convincing than this?: http://www.saber.net/~monarch/cole2.JPG This is true real world durability data.

Perhaps you don't understand that even conventional oils that score "poorly" in your oil analysis tests are still capable of enabling a Toyota engine to last 600,000 miles if changed every 3000-5000 miles. That's why it's silly for a Toyota / Lexus owner to agonize over the choice of motor oil they use. A Toyota / Lexus owner owner who aspires to achieve 600,000 miles needs to be concerned about far more important things that affect engine life such as:

1. Is my cooling system thermostat getting lazy and worn out?

2. Are my oxygen sensors getting lazy and worn out?

3. Are leaves and bugs accumulating on my radiator and air conditioning condenser?

4. Is electrical resistance building up in my spark plug wires?

5. Is my catalytic converter deteriorating internally and increasing exhaust back pressure?

6. Are my engines intake and exhaust valve clearances getting out of spec.?

7. etc. etc.

[mburnickas]

What test numbers could be more convincing than this?: http://www.saber.net/~monarch/cole2.JPG  This is true real world durability data.

Perhaps you don't understand that even conventional oils that score "poorly" in your oil analysis tests are still capable of enabling a Toyota engine to last 600,000 miles if changed every 3000-5000 miles.   That's why it's silly for a Toyota / Lexus owner to agonize over the choice of motor oil they use.   A Toyota / Lexus owner owner who aspires to achieve 600,000 miles needs to be concerned about  far more important things that affect engine life such as:

1. Is my cooling system thermostat getting lazy and worn out?

2. Are my oxygen sensors getting lazy and worn out?

3. Are leaves and bugs accumulating on my radiator and air conditioning condenser?

4. Is electrical resistance building up in my spark plug wires?

5. Is my catalytic converter deteriorating internally and increasing exhaust back pressure?

6. Are my engines intake and exhaust valve clearances getting out of spec.?

7. etc. etc.

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Monach- Too bad that is not oil testing. That is posting pictures and I can do the same thing. I can make a car engine last that long with Walfart oil. Does not mean anything. Just change oil every 3K miles. Oh you WILL have to change that soon since the oil add pkg will be almost zero and the OXD and NOX will be very high. I have better things to do with my time/family and using a synthetic and going longer will provide the same protection and in most times better AS I HAVE POSTED..aka oil test (*numbers*)

Even Mobil and Mobil EP is better then dino, much better.

Again as I stated to you (saber) show me the numbers on any, again ANY oil test from you. So far I have posted some oil tests and you have not posted one, that is zero since I have been out here on this forum and others.

The point here again is mobil EP so stay on topic. Post some oil tests to backup what you state? So far me 1, you 0 in this one thread.

I am not going to go into detail since again please post something RELATED to the topic at hand (mobil EP).

So to close, show me a test, oil test of Toyota oil, I bet 100 to 1 the add pkg is poor and Mobil EP is WAY better. Compare Mobil EP vs Amsoil, Amosil add pkg is better for my application. The Mobil could not even hold its own.

Ps. your numbers 1 through 7 are comical at best. The average Lexus owner can't or will not even change there oil...worry about internal ohms of the wires...you crack me up...Or worrying about the catalytic converter. Hell, they worry about their coffee or there suit not a catalytic converter.. LOL

You can check 4 of those items in about 30 seconds. Those items are not even an issue. Worry about you tire pressure before the "bugs" and the tapping noise (if you have it)....

Again you trust Toyota info way to much. As in my engineering classes we were always tought to never assume things. Ask why, how come, supported by. So far, I trust manfactures like saleman. They are doing something to save their behinds not yours.

[monarch]

> Just change oil every 3K miles. Oh

> you WILL have to change that soon since the oil add pkg will be almost

> zero and the OXD and NOX will be very high.

In the real world, 5,000 mile oil change intervals with conventional

have taken many Toyotas driven by sales reps and couriers to 500,000

miles and beyond.

Back around 1975 when only

API "SD" and "SE" grade conventional oils were available

Toyota engines were still lasting 600,000 miles despite the primitive

oil additive packages available back then (by todays standards).

> I have better things to do with my time/family and using a

> synthetic and going longer will provide the same protection

> and in most times better

You seem to have quite a bit of time to collect samples of your used

Amsoil for analysis, package the samples, address and mail the samples and you

have money for postage and money for the analysis and even more time

to pay the bill that comes in the mail for the analysis .

> Even Mobil and Mobil EP is better then dino, much better.

In real world service, the durability limit for Toyota engines before

they need an overhaul due to oil burning or because they suffer from

sudden catastrophic failure due to excessive wear of one or more

reciprocating parts has been around 650,000 -700,000 miles

regardless if synthetic or conventional oil was used.

Amsoil and Mobil 1 have been on the market for 30 years, but

I have never heard of a Toyota or Asian car owner who

attained 500,000+ miles of engine life using your strategy

of 12,000+ mile oil changes.

> Ps. your numbers 1 through 7 are comical at best...worry

> about internal ohms of the wires...you crack me up...Or

> worrying about the catalytic converter. You can check 4 of

> those items in about 30 seconds. Those items are not

> even an issue

Those items have an important influence the physical loads

that must be endured by the pistons, rings,

valves and associated bearings as well as the temperatures

of those parts. Any deviations from the ideal fuel mixture,

ideal ignition of the fuel mixture and ideal temperature of

the combustion chamber causes higher physical

loads, higher temperatures and hence more rapid mechanical wear

and metal fatigue.

> Again you trust Toyota info way to much. As in my

> engineering classes we were always tought to never assume things.

You were not educated in a Japanese engineering school. Toyota's

reputation for reliability and durability is legendary around the

world. Corporate Toyota has earned the public's trust

(although Toyota dealers have not always, but that's because dealers are run

by Americans over whom corporate Toyota has little control).

[SW03ES]

Done...to...death guys. This argument has been hashed out many many times before, all it ever becomes is a flame war.

Thread closed.