Please Do Me A Favour

[CanadaCraig]

Hi Guys!! :)

Did you miss me?! lol :P

Here's something that I found interesting. I wonder if THIS means anything. I - once again - digitally recorded my car's gauges will accelerating up to 100 kph. [62 mph] But this time - I only pushed down on the gas pedal about half way. [maybe a big more] The transmission shifted into 2nd gear at 4500 RPM and changed into 3rd gear at 4600 RPM. That's not the interesting part. What's interesting [to me at least!!] is that the car STILL took 12-13 seconds to reach 100 kph. In other words - there is no difference in getting up to speed at half throttle [or perhaps a bit more - can't tell for sure] OR full throttle. [as in - 'on the floor' from a dead stop] Still.. no 'brake-starts'. Just the old 'put the gas on and go'.

Does this mean anything - do you think?!

Thanks,

Craig!! :)

[RFeldes]

Craig,

Sounds like a starved engine......ie: fuel, exaust, ignition, emissions, or fuel injection. I assume you have tried different gas stations as they are notorious for selling regular at premium prices. Once again I would try an additive and do a throtlle body clean out. There are some real engine jockies on this forum that can figure this out if we push the right buttons. Sometimes it takes a "brain !Removed!" to find the answers and we will help you figure it out.

[blake918]

I'd get SRK to take it for a spin, listen to it, etc. He is very knowledgable about the LS's mechanics. Take him up on his offer!! Best of luck.....

[ArmyofOne]

im thinking a Dyno pull would tell us a good starting point. i can almost garuntee your putting out at least 50 HP less than factory.

like RFeldes said, it sounds as iof the engien is starving for something.

i wonder maybe if you r ECU has taken a crap/retarded the timing permanently??? the fact that it knocks from time to time on premium concerns me...

[SRK]

It is completely normal for these engines to exhibit some light knocking and pinging at times. It is the result of the PCM advancing timing until the knock occurs and is detected by the knock sensor. That way the engine runs as efficiently as possible at all times, regardless of the octane of the fuel used. It is also why using a lower octane will have no bad effect on the engine, although it will lower power output somewhat.

The owner's manual covers this in somewhat less detail.

And Craig - congrats - over 1100 views so far - good thread!

[KY350]

Craig - I was speaking to a friend about your problem. He advised me that he knew of a Toyota MR2 Turbo that had exactly the same problem that you have. Changed everything associated with the fuel system, but still no improvement in performance.

In the end, it turned out that the catalytic converter had colapsed and this caused significant performance loss.

I don't know if this is the case with your LS, but I guess at this stage you'll be willing to test everything to fix this problem, so I thought I'd pass this info on to you.

[CanadaCraig]

Hi Guys!! :)

Thanks again for all of the great responses. Been busy - so I haven't had a chance to update anything. Sadly - there's not much to update. I emailed the service guy [at his request] a few days ago - but haven't heard back. [i'm trying not to let this annoy me!!] Well.. anyways. Two questions.

Could someone PLEASE tell me EXACTLY [in detail] what happens when a person presses down on the gas pedal. [on a '93 LS400] What 'things' come into play? A cable? A computer? Anything and EVERYTHING.

And....

What are my options IF the Lexus service guy says, "everything is fine and we are no longer interested in trying to 'fix' your car." [or words to that effect] What can I do then? I know there IS a problem - I'm convinced of it - but how do I convince someone else? The service guy [although pleasant enough] has been wrong before. The first time was when he gave me the old 'I should know - I'm a Lexus Service man' attitude about my car NOT having an A/C filter. I had to insist - over and over again - until - finally - the 'non-existant' filter was replaced. Oh well...

The trouble with most places that fix cars is that once they find something that is not working properly [i.e the fuel pump] they STOP trying to find the problem. That may sound reasonable enough - but maybe the REAL problem caused the break down of the part they are replacing. Does that make sense? Obviously - as it turned out [because there was absolutely NO improvement whatsoever] the 'throttle control sensor' [which they replace first] and the 'fuel pump' were NOT the problem.

sigh

Thanks again,

Craig!!

[SRK]

On your 93 Craig the gas pedal is connected to the throttle bellcrank with a cable. As you move the pedal, the bellcrank (or lever to some) rotates the throttle plate from the closed position. As this happens, the throttle position sensor detects the rate of opening, and the degree to which it is opened, and that the throttle has left the idle position. As well the mass air flow sensor sees the increase in air entering the engine and relates that info to the ECU. The transmission also receives info about what the driver is demanding.

[CanadaCraig]

Hi SRK!! :)

Thank you very much!! I appreciate it.

So - based on the problems my engine is having - it would certainly seem [to me - at least] that either the Throttle Bellcrank, cable, throttle place and/or air mass sensor is not functioning properly. I would assume [or should I?] that the ECM is ok otherwise a 'code' would indicate otherwise. [is that not true?]

Are each of the above mentioned 'things' easy enough to check? [and/or adjust or fix or replace]

Still no response to my email from the Lexus service guy. I'm not very good at sticking up for myself - so this really annoys me. [to say the least]

Based on all the help you've given me - no doubt you're on Santa's 'nice list'!!

Craig!! :)

[SRK]

I am off Santa's list as I bought my 98 GS400 a few weeks back....that's all I get, but that's plenty.

A quick check at this point Craig is to have some one press the gas pedal to the floor, and then watch the throttle move all the way open at the engine. There will be a positive stop someplace I am sure (I haven't looked lately) or the intake hose can be removed from the throttle body and the throttle plate examined to ensure it is wide open (completely horizontal in this case).

Over the years I have seen many instances of engines that run fine, and yet produce low power simply because the throttle is not adjusted correctly.

Come to think of it, perhaps the throttle was undone when the valve adjustment was performed...? Maybe that's when it went out of adjustment?

[SRK]

Just did an acceleration test with the 92 LS and my 11 year old son on board and a full tank of gas. Sub 9 seconds to 100 no problem. Probably more like 8.

[90LS400Lexus]

As most here know, I never took my LS past 4000 rpms, because I never had a need to. It was a little "scary" for me to watch CanadaCraigs LS go to redline. :o :)

I did once want to check a "casual" 0-60 time and if I recall, my car went to 60 in about 12-14 seconds, at only 1/2 throttle- not going past 4K rpms.

I have no idea what the problem could be. I have heard that on a car with a timing chain, when it gets worn, it loses power. Since the LS has a belt, that is out of the question. I have no idea. 12 seconds to 60 is still not bad. Many car owners would live to see that time to 60. Still, I understand your disgust. Good luck and keep us posted.

[CanadaCraig]

Hi 90LS400Lexus!! :)

Thanks for the input!!

12 seconds to 60 is quite slow. When it comes to performance - 'seconds' are a long time. SRK's LS [like most 1st generation LS's] can reach 60 MPH [from ZERO] in just over 8 seconds. [let's say 8.5 seconds for the sake of this message] To put that into perspective. - my NSX takes about 5.5 seconds to reach 60 MPH. That's only 3 seconds quicker than a 1st generation LS. MY LS takes 12.5 seconds. [again - a rounded out figure for the sake of this message] The difference between SRK's LS and my NSX is 3 seconds. The difference between SRK's LS and MY LS is 4 seconds. See what I mean? That's a LONG 4 seconds - and impossible to ignore.

Hi SRK!! :)

Thanks again. AND thanks for doing me a favour by breaking the law!! lol [is racing against time illegal?!] I'm sure you can imagine how taking an additional 4 seconds to reach 100 kph would feel. Like I said to 90LS400Lexus - impossible to ignore.

Just double checking - are your absolutely SURE that our LS's have a throttle CABLE and that that CABLE controls a bellcrank [or 'lever'] which rotates a TROTTLE PLATE? I just don't want to be told by the Lexus guys the my car doesn't have a 'cable', etc. And IF that cable/bellcrank/throttle plate is NOT adjusted properly - would the ECM recognize that? [or ignore it?] Sorry if I'm repeating myself. I just want to be fully 'armed' before I go BACK to the dealer. I hate not knowing more about these things. Instead of collecting car brochures all these years - I should have picked up [and read through] a repair manual or two!! lol

Also... did WE see each other Sunday afternoon? I was in my NSX coming up from the Victoria General Hospital road as you were heading towards the freeway. ['we' passed each other near those new 'luxury townhomes'!!] Not sure about the time - but 'we' acknowledged each other and 'you' [!!] were in a Cinnabar Red 1998 GS400. If that wasn't you - someone just stole your car!! lol :P

Thanks to both of you.

Craig!! :)

[SRK]

I do recall the beautiful NSX - that car is perfect Craig! And yes that was me - I keep a close eye on the GS and so far no one has stolen it!

My wife's LS has a cable, and I am sure your 93 does to. Even the GS has a cable.

I don't mind breaking the law in the scientific quest for answers. Both of my kids are quite familiar with the hundred mile an hour rate, and their dad's driving skills. ZERO accidents in thirty-four years......(knocks on wood furiously).

[daffy]

Hi 90LS400Lexus!! :)

Thanks for the input!!

12 seconds to 60 is quite slow. When it comes to performance - 'seconds' are a long time. SRK's LS [like most 1st generation LS's] can reach 60 MPH [from ZERO] in just over 8 seconds. [let's say 8.5 seconds for the sake of this message] To put that into perspective. - my NSX takes about 5.5 seconds to reach 60 MPH. That's only 3 seconds quicker than a 1st generation LS. MY LS takes 12.5 seconds. [again - a rounded out figure for the sake of this message] The difference between SRK's LS and my NSX is 3 seconds. The difference between SRK's LS and MY LS is 4 seconds. See what I mean? That's a LONG 4 seconds - and impossible to ignore.

Hi SRK!! :)

Thanks again. AND thanks for doing me a favour by breaking the law!! lol [is racing against time illegal?!] I'm sure you can imagine how taking an additional 4 seconds to reach 100 kph would feel. Like I said to 90LS400Lexus - impossible to ignore.

Just double checking - are your absolutely SURE that our LS's have a throttle CABLE and that that CABLE controls a bellcrank [or 'lever'] which rotates a  TROTTLE PLATE? I just don't want to be told by the Lexus guys the my car doesn't have a 'cable', etc.  And IF that cable/bellcrank/throttle plate is NOT adjusted properly - would the ECM recognize that? [or ignore it?] Sorry if I'm repeating myself. I just want to be fully 'armed' before I go BACK to the dealer. I hate not knowing more about these things. Instead of collecting car brochures all these years - I should have picked up [and read through] a repair manual or two!! lol

Also... did WE see each other Sunday afternoon? I was in my NSX coming up from the Victoria General Hospital road as you were heading towards the freeway. ['we' passed each other near those new 'luxury townhomes'!!] Not sure about the time - but 'we' acknowledged each other and 'you' [!!] were in a Cinnabar Red 1998 GS400. If that wasn't you - someone just stole your car!! lol :P

Thanks to both of you.

Craig!! :)

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Hi CanadaCraig,

I know it has a cable for the throttle to the gas pedal. I just replaced mine(1991 Ls400), as it was frayed. It cost me $138.00 Cnd. There is adjustment for this, and should be set with gas pedal to the floor and butterfly wide open. It's easy to do. Just back off the jam nut and make your adjustment(if needed) then tighen the jam nut. Daffy

[RFeldes]

Hey Craig,

Just had to give it a go tonight and my 1990 "screamed" compared to your ,"video capture", in 8.2 seconds. I chance we are all breaking the law to help you out. Just keep on trying as we all feel for you!! Much faster through all gears.

[ArmyofOne]

Hey Craig,

Just had to give it a go tonight and my 1990 "screamed" compared to your ,"video capture", in 8.2 seconds. I chance we are all breaking the law to help you out. Just keep on trying as we all feel for you!! Much faster through all gears.

←

Blake918's 95LS still does it in 8.5 and its got almnost a quarter of a million miles, imleaning towards throttle cable, which i suggested in a post somewhere in this thread, as did SRK. take it to the dealer and find out. it DOES have a cable.

[blake918]

She's in the 7.7/7.8 range to sixty!! :D ;)

[ArmyofOne]

She's in the 7.7/7.8 range to sixty!!  :D  ;)

←

thats not what you said at the meet... <_< ;)

[blake918]

She does get to 60 in well under 8 seconds; maybe it was someone else with 8.5 as I'm pretty sure that I said 7.8 to 60 and under 15 to 95-I'm very proud of this stat(and the 244k) on my car! :D I can email you the mpeg if you'd like(5.5mb). If she was going in 8.5, I'd be making the same thread alongside Craig!

[ArmyofOne]

naw man, i believe you,i was just giving ya beef :)

any update craig??

[CanadaCraig]

Hi Guys!! :)

Once again - thank you very much!!

Hi SRK!! :)

Thanks for the compliment re my NSX. I'll admit - it really is nice looking. Especially when you consider the fact that it's 14 years old and has over 135,000 km's on it. Oh sure - it has a few dings and scratches - but so do I. lol Like you - I never speed for fun. Oh no. That would be silly!! I only speed - as you do - for research purposes. Otherwise - it would be just plan foolishness.

Hi daffy!! :)

I'll admit - I never thought that I'd ever get some great advice from a 'daffy'!! lol What I'd like to know is why did you bother to check your throttle cable? What was happening to your car? Did you only discover it's condition by chance?

Hi RFeldes!! :)

I appreciate you breaking the law in the name of helping your fellow man!! [as good an excuse as any - I say!!] Yes!! I can't wait for MY car to be as fast as YOUR car. What a difference that will make. Car manufacturers brag about making their cars 1/2 second quicker to 60. So for MY car to reach 60 mph 4 to 5 seconds quicker is going to be better than buying a new car.

Hi ArmyofOne!! :)

Nothing new to update. Still trying to decide what to do. [and where to get my car fixed - IF NOT at the dealer] The guys at the dealership are a bit snotty - which I can't stand. Oh well.. I need to take an assertiveness training course. But really - not much TO do. This 'town' shuts down near Christmas.

Speaking of which... please be sure to read the 'CanadaCraig's Christmas Message' that I posed in the General section.

Merry Christmas!!

Craig!! :)

[daffy]

Hi daffy!! :)

I'll admit - I never thought that I'd ever get some great advice from a 'daffy'!! lol What I'd like to know is why did you bother to check your throttle cable? What was happening to your car? Did you only discover it's condition by chance?

Hi CanadaCraig,

When I went to clean throttle body valve out, I noticed the frayed cable and said to myself " this can't be good". so I replaced it. It was an easy job, just didn't like the price of the part. It was underneath the "traction control panel" in the engine compartment.

If you have traction control and want the quickest time, you have to shut it off and turn your electronic transmission control (on beside the gearshift) and remove anything heavy in the car!

And daffy is short for the cartoon character daffy duck, I am a flier as well. I fly a Lazair. (www.lazair.com) Merry Christmas!

daffy

[thieaux]

Hey Craig i have a similar situation i have a 91 ls and getting pretty much the same times 12 and 13 , im gonna chek the cable in the morning and see what i find out , if you have any updates let me know...

Merry Christmas Guys and a happy new year , thanks a lot for all the help

[michjm]

I agree with all the others, your car is taking way to long to get to speed.

I have a 91 with 145K on it and it gets there much quicker.

It seems that yours should rev through 1st gear faster, especially after 4k rpm.

It also seems that you really stall out around 5K in 2nd.

This slowing of your upper rpm range could be due to obstructed air flow or a limited fuel supply. Do you have a clean air filter, working MAF, clean fuel filter, proper fuel injection pressure?