LS460L

Nicely done. I've just put a JVC KW-NT3HDT. The unit fit into the double-din carrier perfectly! Nearly all the screws lined up! Made some side panels, like yours, and it looks really good. Just one thing: the Navigation works with the original radio -- without the original radio, the old NAV screen doesn't work. Obviously I don't want it for the NAV part, but I do want it for the Information and other buttons. So, my questions are: 1. How did you get the old screen to work with your new AVIC? Or, does the screen not work at all? 2. How did you make the open/close/tilt buttons work? Thanks!

For a list of cars owned by the Top-10 Billionaires, see this link: http://www.forbesautos.com/advice/toptens/...llionaires.html I didn't see a Lexus among them.

Please refer to the first posting I made on the thread. I make no mention of a suit. I ask, "How should we persuade Lexus?" and I also go on to say that I'd like to get a feel for how many folks have an issue with the Navigation lock-outs.

All -- Once, again, I'd like to re-focus this discussion on the here and now. Regardless what we think the response may be from Lexus, the point of this thread is to determine how many folks out there are not happy with the abridged feature-functionality delivered with their LS460. I respectfully request that we all stick to that point and suspend further speculation as to how Lexus or Toyota may respond. If you do not like the lock-outs, please respond with your experience. If you think the lock-outs should be in place, please say so. If you'd like to include your experience, please do. Once again, let's not get drawn into hypothetical discussions over what the future holds. For those of you scanning this thread, please tell us of your experience with the Navigation system on the LS460.

Of course, I can't compare cellphones to cars, as in your case a competitive advantage was at stake. However, what I can do is answer your question, which gets to the core of the issue. I know how the system works, and I use it every day. I have also shown my salesman at the Lexus dealer how to use some features that his training hadn't covered sufficiently (which is an interesting point, but not of much value here). I think that Lexus/Toyota care about customer satisfaction. After driving across country in America, Chief Engineer, Yuji Yokoya wanted to understand everything there was to know about how the Toyota Sienna minivan would be used in the American market. If I remember correctly, he added cupholders and made the bed just a bit longer to accommodate folks he observed putting sheets of plywood into their minivan at a DIY store. I believe that Lexus engineers should practice genshi genbutsu: they need to come and see for themselves how useless the controls become when you most need them. Then, they should bring along Toyota's and Lexus' lead management with their legal council. In the end, I want a new Denso release of the Navigation software with any of these options: 1. Lockouts completely removed (Sign a waiver, if necessary). 2. Lockouts turned off when a passenger is in the car (front seat). 3. Unlock software sequence that can be used when needed. Of course, I'm open for suggestions from Lexus. I do not ask anyone to judge or anticipate Lexus' actions here. Nobody knows what they may do or suggest. However, if someone thinks of another option, please add it to the list.

Very well-put, needone! Just last week, tooling around the roads in Chapel Hill, I wanted to get back to a place I'd put in the Nav system the prior day. Well, when stopped, you just press DEST and then select the nice, large button for previous destinations and then choose another nice, large button for the one you want. Of course, that's if you're stopped. So, I became a bit depressed remembering that I couldn't make that selection while I was driving (neither could my wife, just aside of me). I thought, "I spent money on features that are INCONVENIENT to use." Even more dangerous, when you consider that pulling off of a two-lane road means you actually have to pull into a driveway. Lexus: Genchi Genbutsu!

I can only speak for myself, but I started this thread to get differing opinions. Steve, you've been vocal, and it's perfectly all right for folks to say they like the lock-outs (for whatever reason). All I ask folks to do is stick to the topic, try to keep to the facts, and bring honest opinions here. I believe your posts are honest and heartfelt. I'll bet there are other folks out there who have been silently reading this thread. Doesn't matter to me with whom you agree; but we'll never know if you don't weigh in. So, to the silent readers: whatsayyou?

Hello, needone! You're right! We have a 430 as well (wife's car). I customarily unlock the navigation when we're in her car. BTW: fantastic car, the 430 (my wife won't let me drive it!). I'll think about how to position a thread that points folks over here.

Well, at least we can count you in the growing list of folks opposed to the lockouts (lucky for you, you still have a version of the Nav system on your car that has disclosed overrides)! Okay, Rx330driver's on-board. Who else?

I have a couple of Lexus resources who provided some background, and it might help you to know the same. It seems that several of the "lock-outs" were applied for the American market only (remember, I'm speaking about the LS460; I can't speak about any other model). The Navigation system is freely open in Japan on the LS460. However, my contacts did not know if similar lock-outs were applied for the European market. And, yes, Lexus representatives in the American market are actively watching this site (several threads, not just this one). Of course, the question remains for you, Rx330driver: cynicism aside, are you with or against? Be careful here, because this is basically about who should be allowed to choose: the car owner (you) or the car maker (Lexus).

First and foremost, I will happily endorse efforts to remove the lockouts that plague this car. I have follow the thread on this issue and am impressed with the rational and logical positions taken by those who want simple choice, and I notice a tendency of the Management responses to sound an awful lot like the Lexus talking points. Well-put, Heliski! I've tried to keep this thread on-topic, and I've tried to keep folks focused on the main issue: who should choose what we can use on the Navigation system, the car owner (this is my contention), or the car maker? With respect to the Management responses, I can't comment other than to say that I think it's healthy for the management of this site to provide a sort-of "devil's advocacy" in some cases. And, if my argument can't survive their tests, perhaps it would be superfluous. However, the overall consensus, so far, is that folks are largely in agreement with my premise. Some folks are, understandably, pessimistic about Lexus taking steps to alter this situation. But, I maintain that Lexus wants to satisfy their customers more than most (if not all) other car makers. That puts a lot of pressure on them. And, as we are eligible for updates from Lexus (Denso) on the Navigation software, my hope is that we'll be able to get an update as early as next year to remedy these issues -- EVEN if it comes with some sort of "waiver" for me to sign. So, with that, who else has been quietly reading this thread who would like to chime in?

Thanks, 07LS460! That's what this forum is all about: how should we persuade Lexus? Any system can be defeated, in some fashion or another. I'm sure somebody has already figured out which wires to cut or re-route or whatever. Could I disable these lockouts by putting something into the passenger's seat? Why yes, yes I could. I'm thinking I'd put my wife in the passenger's seat. And, occasionally, I'll ask her to do what I did on our last trip -- find a restaurant near where we were driving. Too much to ask? I think not. All right, folks, let's keep talking about this. Steve's had a lot to say. A few others have also had some good thoughts. Who else?

Great, Steve. Thanks for your comment. Glad you don't mess with your phone while you are driving. I stopped doing that myself the day I tried it -- not a great idea! Now that we've heard from Steve, how about anyone else? The real question here is: who should decide whether we can dial the phone (with that nice, large, easy-to-use, Lexus phone keypad) or change destinations or switch to another album (by name, not just up or down) while we are driving? The car maker? Or should we be responsible adults and decide for ourselves? Steve's had his say, who else?

Hi, Steve. Thanks for your comment. Have you seen the calendar on the new LS? It's fantastic. It's also quite useful, again, for the passenger to use (were it that the lockouts didn't exist). Another situation was where my wife and I were driving in Florida; and it was the end of the month. We were trying to figure out the next week's activites in our somewhat idle conversation while I drove. She was the one manning the Navigation controls (what little she could do, thank you Father Lexus). On the 430, we simply overrode the lock-out and could have paged forward and talked about the next month's activities. On the 460, we couldn't. Petty? Maybe. But, it's my feeling that I should be given the prerogative to choose and that prerogative has been taken away from me by Lexus when they think I shouldn't use it. Safety? Interesting point you make. Now, contrast the nice, large display on the LS with looking at a cell phone for any reason at all -- its small screen and tiny buttons; talk about unsafe! I used to have nightmares before hands-free. Of course, nobody's telling the guy next to me on my drive home today -- as he swerved out of his lane trying to punch the buttons on his Blackberry. So, Steve, who's going to take that guy's Blackberry away from him? Shouldn't the same rules apply? Look, everyone: Steve's point is clear -- we shouldn't be messing with anything while we are driving that can otherwise distract from keeping our eyes on the road. Safety is absolutely number one in my book. However, and I keep saying this, it's not up to the car maker to decide for me how I'll use the equipment on the car. That's my responsibility. So, Steve, thanks for your comment. I'd like to count you as one who agrees with me that it should be our choice about the lockouts, while being responsible and safe. I'd like to hear you're in agreement about that much, at least. To others reading this post: Whether you agree with Steve, me or somewhere in between, chime in. This is an open forum, and I want to hear what everyone has to say.

Absolutely! JAM123 has hit the nail on the head! Here's another experience: I was driving, and my wife asked me what I was doing on the 5th of next month. Well, I've got a calendar on my phone, but there's one on the LS -- but, you've got it, it's locked out! It shows you the current month with the current day highlighted, but you can't advance to the next month unless you're stopped! Hey, folks, JAM123's got it. Who else?