Jump to content

LS460L

Regular Member
  • Posts

    24
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by LS460L

  1. Nicely done. I've just put a JVC KW-NT3HDT. The unit fit into the double-din carrier perfectly! Nearly all the screws lined up! Made some side panels, like yours, and it looks really good. Just one thing: the Navigation works with the original radio -- without the original radio, the old NAV screen doesn't work. Obviously I don't want it for the NAV part, but I do want it for the Information and other buttons. So, my questions are: 1. How did you get the old screen to work with your new AVIC? Or, does the screen not work at all? 2. How did you make the open/close/tilt buttons work? Thanks!
  2. For a list of cars owned by the Top-10 Billionaires, see this link: http://www.forbesautos.com/advice/toptens/...llionaires.html I didn't see a Lexus among them.
  3. Please refer to the first posting I made on the thread. I make no mention of a suit. I ask, "How should we persuade Lexus?" and I also go on to say that I'd like to get a feel for how many folks have an issue with the Navigation lock-outs.
  4. All -- Once, again, I'd like to re-focus this discussion on the here and now. Regardless what we think the response may be from Lexus, the point of this thread is to determine how many folks out there are not happy with the abridged feature-functionality delivered with their LS460. I respectfully request that we all stick to that point and suspend further speculation as to how Lexus or Toyota may respond. If you do not like the lock-outs, please respond with your experience. If you think the lock-outs should be in place, please say so. If you'd like to include your experience, please do. Once again, let's not get drawn into hypothetical discussions over what the future holds. For those of you scanning this thread, please tell us of your experience with the Navigation system on the LS460.
  5. Of course, I can't compare cellphones to cars, as in your case a competitive advantage was at stake. However, what I can do is answer your question, which gets to the core of the issue. I know how the system works, and I use it every day. I have also shown my salesman at the Lexus dealer how to use some features that his training hadn't covered sufficiently (which is an interesting point, but not of much value here). I think that Lexus/Toyota care about customer satisfaction. After driving across country in America, Chief Engineer, Yuji Yokoya wanted to understand everything there was to know about how the Toyota Sienna minivan would be used in the American market. If I remember correctly, he added cupholders and made the bed just a bit longer to accommodate folks he observed putting sheets of plywood into their minivan at a DIY store. I believe that Lexus engineers should practice genshi genbutsu: they need to come and see for themselves how useless the controls become when you most need them. Then, they should bring along Toyota's and Lexus' lead management with their legal council. In the end, I want a new Denso release of the Navigation software with any of these options: 1. Lockouts completely removed (Sign a waiver, if necessary). 2. Lockouts turned off when a passenger is in the car (front seat). 3. Unlock software sequence that can be used when needed. Of course, I'm open for suggestions from Lexus. I do not ask anyone to judge or anticipate Lexus' actions here. Nobody knows what they may do or suggest. However, if someone thinks of another option, please add it to the list.
  6. Very well-put, needone! Just last week, tooling around the roads in Chapel Hill, I wanted to get back to a place I'd put in the Nav system the prior day. Well, when stopped, you just press DEST and then select the nice, large button for previous destinations and then choose another nice, large button for the one you want. Of course, that's if you're stopped. So, I became a bit depressed remembering that I couldn't make that selection while I was driving (neither could my wife, just aside of me). I thought, "I spent money on features that are INCONVENIENT to use." Even more dangerous, when you consider that pulling off of a two-lane road means you actually have to pull into a driveway. Lexus: Genchi Genbutsu!
  7. I can only speak for myself, but I started this thread to get differing opinions. Steve, you've been vocal, and it's perfectly all right for folks to say they like the lock-outs (for whatever reason). All I ask folks to do is stick to the topic, try to keep to the facts, and bring honest opinions here. I believe your posts are honest and heartfelt. I'll bet there are other folks out there who have been silently reading this thread. Doesn't matter to me with whom you agree; but we'll never know if you don't weigh in. So, to the silent readers: whatsayyou?
  8. Hello, needone! You're right! We have a 430 as well (wife's car). I customarily unlock the navigation when we're in her car. BTW: fantastic car, the 430 (my wife won't let me drive it!). I'll think about how to position a thread that points folks over here.
  9. Well, at least we can count you in the growing list of folks opposed to the lockouts (lucky for you, you still have a version of the Nav system on your car that has disclosed overrides)! Okay, Rx330driver's on-board. Who else?
  10. I have a couple of Lexus resources who provided some background, and it might help you to know the same. It seems that several of the "lock-outs" were applied for the American market only (remember, I'm speaking about the LS460; I can't speak about any other model). The Navigation system is freely open in Japan on the LS460. However, my contacts did not know if similar lock-outs were applied for the European market. And, yes, Lexus representatives in the American market are actively watching this site (several threads, not just this one). Of course, the question remains for you, Rx330driver: cynicism aside, are you with or against? Be careful here, because this is basically about who should be allowed to choose: the car owner (you) or the car maker (Lexus).
  11. First and foremost, I will happily endorse efforts to remove the lockouts that plague this car. I have follow the thread on this issue and am impressed with the rational and logical positions taken by those who want simple choice, and I notice a tendency of the Management responses to sound an awful lot like the Lexus talking points. Well-put, Heliski! I've tried to keep this thread on-topic, and I've tried to keep folks focused on the main issue: who should choose what we can use on the Navigation system, the car owner (this is my contention), or the car maker? With respect to the Management responses, I can't comment other than to say that I think it's healthy for the management of this site to provide a sort-of "devil's advocacy" in some cases. And, if my argument can't survive their tests, perhaps it would be superfluous. However, the overall consensus, so far, is that folks are largely in agreement with my premise. Some folks are, understandably, pessimistic about Lexus taking steps to alter this situation. But, I maintain that Lexus wants to satisfy their customers more than most (if not all) other car makers. That puts a lot of pressure on them. And, as we are eligible for updates from Lexus (Denso) on the Navigation software, my hope is that we'll be able to get an update as early as next year to remedy these issues -- EVEN if it comes with some sort of "waiver" for me to sign. So, with that, who else has been quietly reading this thread who would like to chime in?
  12. Thanks, 07LS460! That's what this forum is all about: how should we persuade Lexus? Any system can be defeated, in some fashion or another. I'm sure somebody has already figured out which wires to cut or re-route or whatever. Could I disable these lockouts by putting something into the passenger's seat? Why yes, yes I could. I'm thinking I'd put my wife in the passenger's seat. And, occasionally, I'll ask her to do what I did on our last trip -- find a restaurant near where we were driving. Too much to ask? I think not. All right, folks, let's keep talking about this. Steve's had a lot to say. A few others have also had some good thoughts. Who else?
  13. Great, Steve. Thanks for your comment. Glad you don't mess with your phone while you are driving. I stopped doing that myself the day I tried it -- not a great idea! Now that we've heard from Steve, how about anyone else? The real question here is: who should decide whether we can dial the phone (with that nice, large, easy-to-use, Lexus phone keypad) or change destinations or switch to another album (by name, not just up or down) while we are driving? The car maker? Or should we be responsible adults and decide for ourselves? Steve's had his say, who else?
  14. Hi, Steve. Thanks for your comment. Have you seen the calendar on the new LS? It's fantastic. It's also quite useful, again, for the passenger to use (were it that the lockouts didn't exist). Another situation was where my wife and I were driving in Florida; and it was the end of the month. We were trying to figure out the next week's activites in our somewhat idle conversation while I drove. She was the one manning the Navigation controls (what little she could do, thank you Father Lexus). On the 430, we simply overrode the lock-out and could have paged forward and talked about the next month's activities. On the 460, we couldn't. Petty? Maybe. But, it's my feeling that I should be given the prerogative to choose and that prerogative has been taken away from me by Lexus when they think I shouldn't use it. Safety? Interesting point you make. Now, contrast the nice, large display on the LS with looking at a cell phone for any reason at all -- its small screen and tiny buttons; talk about unsafe! I used to have nightmares before hands-free. Of course, nobody's telling the guy next to me on my drive home today -- as he swerved out of his lane trying to punch the buttons on his Blackberry. So, Steve, who's going to take that guy's Blackberry away from him? Shouldn't the same rules apply? Look, everyone: Steve's point is clear -- we shouldn't be messing with anything while we are driving that can otherwise distract from keeping our eyes on the road. Safety is absolutely number one in my book. However, and I keep saying this, it's not up to the car maker to decide for me how I'll use the equipment on the car. That's my responsibility. So, Steve, thanks for your comment. I'd like to count you as one who agrees with me that it should be our choice about the lockouts, while being responsible and safe. I'd like to hear you're in agreement about that much, at least. To others reading this post: Whether you agree with Steve, me or somewhere in between, chime in. This is an open forum, and I want to hear what everyone has to say.
  15. Absolutely! JAM123 has hit the nail on the head! Here's another experience: I was driving, and my wife asked me what I was doing on the 5th of next month. Well, I've got a calendar on my phone, but there's one on the LS -- but, you've got it, it's locked out! It shows you the current month with the current day highlighted, but you can't advance to the next month unless you're stopped! Hey, folks, JAM123's got it. Who else?
  16. Not at all, I appreciate your response. I'll add you to the list (it's growing nicely)!
  17. I don't see how. No other car manufacturer is as far along in hybrid powertrain development as Toyota, and other manufacturers that have similar hybrid technology (Honda's is NOT the same, Hondas cannot operate soley on battery power) like Ford and GM only have it because Toyota licensed them their previous generation hybrid technology! Toyota's already on generation three of its hybrid powertrain, nobody else even has one. Toyota's going to own the Hybrid market for a LONG time. The question comes, are hybrid cars really the future? I personally don't think so. Thanks for your input, however I'd like to refocus this discussion on the thread's title: "LS Navigation -- Call for a Class Action?" rather than becoming side-tracked on hybrids; although I'm sure the 600H does have the same Navigation block-outs that the 460 does. Regarding your other comments, thanks for your opinion. However, I can't tell: are you in agreement with us, or are you not in agreement? Would you sign a petition to Lexus asking them to alter their Navigation system lockouts or not? As one of the Management of this site, your voice may carry some weight.
  18. Hank, When they go to sell you the "low-jack," you might want to give it a miss. With Lexus Link, they can locate your car. Also, consider the pre-pay of maintenance. I was also able to negotiate the $1,500 extended warranty (to 100K miles) down to about $700. Take advantage of the Lexus Link "Advanced Services" and see how you like them. Good stuff.
  19. I am looking at other options right now- I wonder if people would be willing to contribute to hire a programmer to hack the Nav 6.1 system and offer it just as we would like? That is cheaper than trading it in for another vehicle, though I find Lexus' disregard for customer wishes very arrogant. Doug Bates Hi, Doug! I'm sorry your arbitration process didn't give you the outcome you deserve. If you are unsatisfied to the degree you said, it's certainly fair to expect Lexus to take the vehicle back -- that is, if they relentlessly pursue Customer Service as much as they do Perfection. With Lexus, we aren't used to having to worry about "caveat emptor" when it comes to buying a Lexus -- they've done an excellent job with the LS460L; it's just this nagging issue about who should decide whether I use the features in the car -- the Car Maker or the Car Owner. My vote is: the Owner. I, too, am looking for options; but I feel that hacking the system, whether it be by cutting a wire or breaking into the software aren't the right options. I doubt your ES isn't the last car you'll ever own. I'm sure my LS isn't, either. I don't want to go through this again! However, I do think we might think about formally making it known to Lexus that there are a lot of dissatisfied folks out there, regarding the Navigation lockouts specifically. If it's all right with you, I'll add your name to the ever-growing list of folks willing to sign an open letter to Lexus (at this time, it's just an open letter).
  20. I appreciate your posting. While I disagree with our assertion that the folks who might sign any sort of letter or petition would be held liable, I do agree that viewing a DVD while driving (as I'd indicated in the initial posting) certainly wouldn't be a function that I'd ask to have activated while in motion. Rather, to restate here for clarity, I think the basic features allowing navigation selection, phone and music selection is sufficient. Everyone else -- RFeldes has had a say; what about anyone else who is frustrated with the "lock outs" in our new Lexus LS460's?
  21. That's an interesting point LexusTech117 raises; but rather than make rogue alterations to a system I know technically nothing about, I think it might make sense for us to group together and send Lexus an open letter requesting that they make these features available to those who want them. I'll bet Lexus has received many letters from disappointed folks. I believe Lexus wants to pursue perfection as much as they do customer satisfaction. If I get 50 or more posts to this subject (50 individuals), I'll be happy to post a letter and provide a way for folks to "digitally sign" the letter. For the everyday person who buys an LS (or an ES; or any other Lexus for that matter) and wants to use the functions I've mentioned in this section, there's no reason they should resort to hacks, cutting wires or any other third-party work being performed on their cars. Lexus should get in front of this now, before this request becomes something much more formal. I believe Lexus should allow "unlocking" these features; and if they need to, for their own protection, have the owner sign a waiver, then so be it. Who else agrees?
  22. No problem, but if you run across it, please post the information. There's a lot of talk on Capitol Hill about a lot of things. As mtork and others have said already in this forum, the fact that we must resort to the smaller buttons on our hand-helds to make a phone call can be arguably more dangerous than using the Nav system's nice, large numbers on the user-friendly touch screen. And, who gets sued when someone is messing with their Garmin or iPod and gets into an accident? According to the posts, so far, we agree that the responsibility lies with whomever is behind the wheel in these situations. Lexus (really Denso, the company that makes the Nav system and software) went to great lengths to provide an absolutely wonderful user interface. It's much (no, really -- much!) improved from the LS430 (which was worlds better than the LS400's). For me, using a touch screen is infinitely more safe than trying to use the "knob" I found in other vehicles. Lexus made sure that you would need minimal time looking at the screen. I believe folks here would agree that an effective argument can be made to Lexus to relax its grip on at least the main controls of the Navigation system, telephone and album lists; but I'll bet folks would agree that when you're driving, playing the video of a DVD could certainly be "locked out" if we had to compromise. Please, folks, continue to post your issues. Let's give Lexus something to chew on!
  23. You made reference to the DOT -- "Sometime soon the DOT will make these lockouts law..." Could you please forward me either a link to that source or direct me to whomever gave you that information? As a general note, I've been pleased with the comments from various folks. I, too, have had the navigation system in my other cars -- and, yes I had it in my 430 (which I could override when necessary). My choice in a Japanese car over a German car is purely personal. While I am happy the Germans did not worry so much about litigation, I no longer purchase Mercedes or BMW -- not a ding in any way (they are fine vehicles), just my personal choice these days. I appreciate your (and everyone's) responses.
  24. I'd like to start a discussion regarding the Lexus LS460 Navigation lock-out and what we, as a group, can do to persuade Lexus that we, the folks who both purchase and use these cars, should be the ones to determine when we use our navigation system and how. Recently, on a trip in Florida, I needed to re-route around some traffic. I knew where I wanted to go (a POI I knew). My wife, in the passenger's seat, was perfectly able to use the navigation system, were it not for the fact that it was locked out while we were in motion. I had to pull into a parking lot to make the selection. The traffic was so bad that getting back in took over 10 minutes (Orlando, go figure). The navigation system that was supposed to save me time ended up being more hindrance than help. This has become not only an annoyance, but a danger. Stopping on the highway, which is what some folks might do, or pulling off at an exit or on a side road just to choose another destination -- especially for the passenger to do the selection -- is both ludicrous and insulting. I have more stories, but I'm sure you share most of them. These features are "locked out" while the car is in motion, and I believe (as I think many of you may) that the use of these options should be our choice -- not the car maker's choice. Choosing a different destination (POI, Address, Phone, etc.) Choosing an album to play by selecting it directly, rather than having to page through them one-by-one Dialing a phone number when using the telephone Other features "locked out" during forward motion What I want, and what I believe we all expect, is for Lexus to make these features available to us at no additional charge (haven't we already spent enough on our car purchase?) in the form of an updated software release for the car, a software "hack" or an after-market "modification" that is approved by Lexus. I don't want to tell them how to do it, I just want to persuade them to do it. So, let's start the discussion. If you are willing to become part of the solution, please post.
×
×
  • Create New...

Forums


News


Membership