jkatsoudas

As I told you before, I absolutely have no problem with your opinions. You put them forward in an intelligent, coherant, and respectful way. My only issue is your repeated attempts to call RX400h out into an altercation. You do it all over the place, not just here. If you want to disagree with RX400h or anyone else, then do that. But can saying incendiary BS like "I grow more sure that you're a Lexus employee by the day" or "If RX400h were here he'd say blah blah" in threads he's not even posting in. If you're incapable of dealing with RX400h's opinions, simply stop reading his posts. Just so I'm clear on the rules of the forum- it's OK to post that MBZ or BMW or (insert make here) are pieces of *&$% in every thread I post in, but if I point out that someone else does this repeatedly, that's not OK. Gotcha.

Never one to miss an opportunity to bash MBZ, eh? I grow more convinced by the day that you're a Lexus employee. I don't think anyone would have doubts about that. Lexus is THE BEST, MB, BMW- BAD BAD ;)- well it' not so hard to figure out who's here ;). Why are you surprised that on a Lexus enthusiast club forum you have members who are staunch fans of Lexus vehicles. Go on any forum, you'll find the same thing. Post in a MB forum you think Lexus is a better car. You will get REAMED. RX400h doesn't work for Lexus. He's just a Lexus fan. If you don't want to read what Lexus fans have to say, don't post on a Lexus enthusiast site. Thats not a request either. We're not going to tolerate anybody's opinion being devalued or our members being rideculed for being fans of this car company. You're welocme to your opinions, and you're welcome to express your opinions. However, you've got to swallow the opinions of others too. I have no problem with someone being a fan of something. However, RX400h's dig on MBZ in this thread in particular (but not unique to this thread) came completely out of left field. If you can't be a fan of something without taking pot shots at something else to support your opinion that doesn't seem like a very well-defended opinion. If you can't tolerate someone coming onto this forum and not being all starry-eyed over everything Lexus it seems to me that you're the one thats intolerant of peoples' opinions. If this is jus too inflamatory for you, please feel free to ban me.

Sorry, but that's just a bunch of BS. Unfortunately, Toyota/Lexus lawyers subscribe to this same BS. No other company has these restrictions in place, and we haven't seen a plague of lawsuits against auto manufacturers for nav system-induced crashes. Not to worry, though. If "RX400h" is true to form, he will be along shortly to tell us all what a piece of crap MBZ nav systems are in comparison to Lexus and how we should be thankful for what we have and it's the way it is because that's what people are asking for. :whistles:

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/wiper4.htm

It would likely stick out past the fenders, based on what I see on my car. Here are a couple of crappy pics I took with my cell phone camera of my car (on the left) with 255/55/18's and another RX with stock 235/55/18's. You can see that the 255's come pretty close to the edge of the fenders, especially in the front.

I wrote lexus.de a while ago ... still waiting ... surprise surprise, no response. Now let's see, what is there, maybe a million or more RX's on the road? If this WAS a real steering issue? What did "Frau Blucher" figure we'd all be thinking ... maybe something like "That does it, I'm putting my 400h up sale in the auto trader" (shaking head). "Thank goodness an engineer was driving when the steering went ka put" Hugh? What does that mean? My wife has had a high speed front flat in a truck, that had NO power steering ... now try THAT on for size if you want an 'E' ticket ride. She didn't say, 'oh my god sell it quick'. Similarly, there have been hundreds of folks driving when a power steering unit looses a belt. "HURRY, SELL the CAR !!" Who know that apparently some will do that. I guess we won't be hearing regularly then, from Frau Blucker any more. Oh well ... don't let the door hit you in the rear on the way out. A "million or so" Hybrid RX's on the road (after all, the specific complaint is against electric-assisted PS) is probably a few orders of magnitude optimistic. There are, BTW, several documented incidents (by the NTSB) of electic assist failure in both RX hybrids and HiHy's (same system), however those have all resulted in loss of power assist- not this reverse steer that the OP reports. That notwithstanding, let's burn the OP at the stake for daring to post on this forum and soil the virgin reputation of this fine vehicle!

Without posting PROOF It is my beleif that you will not convince any member on these forums. Spoof :chairshot: LOL- you guys are hilarious. "We want PROOF! We don't believe anything we read on a forum (but if you want proof that MBZ is crap, just go read the MBZ forums)."

So your saying, 255/55/18 is the biggest size you could fit under your RX? is the tire too tall or too wide? would a 255/50 fit better than your 255/55? If your indicating it rubs up against the plastic it seems like your tire is far too tall. I'm assuming I could go with a wider tire but not as tall as yours since im interested in getting 20s on my RX to stiffen up the handling quite a bit. I'd agree with Skyfish that there's no room for anything taller than a 255/55/18 in the fenderwell, but I haven't experienced any rubbing with my 255/55 Alenzas. A 255/50 would have a bit more clearance, and would be identical diameter to the factory 235/55 so there wouldn't be any increase in speedo error, but there are only two tires made in a 255/50 that I could find. They are both Pirelli and they are both supposedly summer performance tires so they didn't meet my needs. Also, on a 7" wide rim, the 255/55's have a fair bit of sidewall angling to fit on the narrow rim (this size is supposed to be on an 8" rim) and the shop had a bit of a hard time getting the bead to pop into position, so a 255/50 would likely be even harder to get on that rim (just speculation on my part). No idea what effect, if any, this would have on driveability.

Never one to miss an opportunity to bash MBZ, eh? I grow more convinced by the day that you're a Lexus employee.

If you want a simple yes or no, start a poll not a thread. :whistles: This discussion, like any discussion, will wander a bit as people have a normal conversation. If you read the thread you'll see how we ended up on the battery discussion from the original question.

Interesting paper. Thanks. However, by their own admission, they distinguish between battery wear and battery aging in this paper and choose to address only battery wear in their model. I found another paper that also has some good information: http://www.cobasys.com/pdf/presentations/C...PaperFormat.pdf A brief excerpt from this paper: They do go on to say, near the end, that some hypothetical calculations put the life expectancy of a NiMH pack near 10-15 in certain conditions. The common theme seems to be that batteries wear due to excessive charge or discharge, exposure to excessive heat or cold, and number of charge/discharge cycles. They also age through corrosion of the plate material. Excessive charge can be controlled by the electronics. Excessive discharge is a little trickier, since all batteries naturally self-discharge at a certain rate while stored. The car's electronics will prevent it from excessively discharging below a certain point while driving, but if you were to park the car while the battery is in a state of low charge and leave it parked there long enough, the batteries may self-discharge below the 1.0 volt per cell minimum that has been show to cause damage to NiMH batteries. There's another thread about how long you can "safely" park the car, and it's a tricky question because it depends on the state of charge of the batteries when you parked it. If you parked it with a pretty good charge, it can sit for a while but if you park it with a low charge it's possible for the batteries to self-discharge to the point that they damage themselves. Complicating all of this is the fact the environment is tough to control in this application. In a very hot climate, say Tempe in the summer, it's not too difficult to imagine the vehicle's interior temperature climbing above the point where it starts to impact long-term battery life. It's not going to kill the pack instantly but it will affect it's lifespan. Excessive cold has a simiar impact. So, it's not too hard to imagine this theoretical 10-15 year lifespan being reduced significantly once you start to factor in environmental and usage issues.

Maybe in San Diego you can get that sort of mileage year-round, but anywhere that it actually gets cold you'll see the RX fuel economy plummet in the winter when it has to run the ICE to generate heat. Even up here, just a few hunded miles north of you, I see a significant drop in fuel economy in the winter. If you factor year-round average fuel economy for an RX in "average" weather conditions, the RX doesn't handily beat either one, in fact my wife's E350 gets better fuel economy than my RX right now. Hugh? Average winter in the Flathead Valley is in the low 30's ... with maybe 2 to 10 sub zeros every other year. You can STILL get in the 30's mpg simply by driving purposfully, combining short trips, blocking your grill and adding a block heater. Sure, if you don't do that, take tons of short trips, then you'll sufffer the mpg consequences ... but it's simply up the the driver. You're right- all of those things will make a difference and it's up to each person to decide if the extra mpg is worth the effort. However, 99% of hybrid drivers won't do those things. My point is simply that you can't drive the car the same way year-round and expect 27/24 mpg. Once you factor the cold-weather specific mpg decline of hybrids their advantage over conventional ICE vehicles dwindles.

Certainly the batteries may "live" for that long, but they will be operating at far less than their original rated capacity. That's just a fact of all lithium-based batteries. Hugh? There are canadian cab companies (rememer how harsh THOSE winters are) that are racking up over 300K miles on their hybrids, while showing very little battery pack degridation. Sure, like any car part, there'll be exceptions ... but so far, those hybrids that are passing 200K and above are doing way better than expected. It's time, not mileage that degrades battery packs. A Lithium or Nickel-based battery pack will degrade at a certain percentage per year, regardless of use. 300K miles on a cab is likely less than 3 years. Let's see how they do in another 2 or 3.

Yeah, but then you're not getting that outstandind Lexus dealership service that everyone seems to prize. :whistles: I didn't make this number up- Lexus of Stevens Creek wants $199 for a routine 5K service visit. By the same token, you wouldn't need to pay $2K to have brakes serviced as in a prior poster's example. That's just as crazy as a $200 oil change.

Minor, you say? Let's see... at $200 every 5K miles, that works out to $4,000 in oil changes over 100K miles (not counting the cost of the synthetic oil itself if I want to upgrade over what Lexus installs). $200 every 13K miles for the MBZ works out to $1,600 over that same timeframe, and Mobil1 is included. That's a $2,400 difference. More than enough to cover that brake service. All the other stuff you mention- window motors, sunroofs, etc are ALL covered (including labor, loaner car, towing if needed) under the bumper to bumper extended warranty. Even the nav system and all electronics. So yes, I'm pretty confident that any needed repairs won't cost me anything out of pocket. Consumables, on the other hand, cost money but that's par for the course with either car. Go read the threads about the crappy Goodyear tires on the RX and then tell the folks that had to replace their tires after 13K miles that their RX is cheaper to maintain. As far as the comparison between the ML500's gas mileage vs the RX... not sure what that has to do with anything. Maybe if you compare it to the LX470 that might be more appropriate.

Certainly the batteries may "live" for that long, but they will be operating at far less than their original rated capacity. That's just a fact of all lithium-based batteries. As far as repair costs go, I know that repairs for our MBZ will cost us exactly $2,000 for 7 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first (we bought the extended warranty). After that, it's sold and we're on to a new car. Anyhow, my prior comment wasn't about repair costs, but rather merely stating that projected fuel economy of an RX should go down as battery capacity diminishes with age. While we're on the topic of costs to the consumer, here's another little pet peeve of mine. Why is it that MBZ's come from the factory with Mobil1 synthetic, and their recommended oil change interval is 13K miles, while Lexus come from the factory with conventional oil and their oil change interval is 5K miles? Even if I convert my RX to Mobil1 (which I have) I still need to change the oil every 5K miles or risk voiding the warranty for not following service interval guidance? How about we calculate the cost to the consumer of having to change your oil 2.5X as often in order to maintain the warranty?

Maybe in San Diego you can get that sort of mileage year-round, but anywhere that it actually gets cold you'll see the RX fuel economy plummet in the winter when it has to run the ICE to generate heat. Even up here, just a few hunded miles north of you, I see a significant drop in fuel economy in the winter. If you factor year-round average fuel economy for an RX in "average" weather conditions, the RX doesn't handily beat either one, in fact my wife's E350 gets better fuel economy than my RX right now. Interesting. How about after 100k miles on the E350, think it will still attain better MPG than the RX400h? Doesn't the RX keep upping its MPG as it wears on? Good question- no idea. I've only had my RX for a little over a year (~13K miles), and I haven't seen any significant increase in fuel economy past the first month or so. Given that NiMH battery cells have a life expectancy of about 5 years, unless you replace the battery cells in the RX I'd expect a significant decrease in fuel economy in the RX past 100K miles. Of course, it does carry a 7 year, 100K mile warranty on the hybrid system, so if you could provide documented proof of decreased mileage and successfully argue that hybrid battery capacity is causing it, you might be able to get a free battery replacement before that warranty expires. I have no idea what criteria a dealership would use in agreeing to a hybrid battery pack replacement- it may be only upon a fully dead pack, but anyone with a laptop knows that long before a battery fully dies it's lost a great deal of it's charge potential. My current "5 hour" laptop battery is good for about 2.5 hours right now.

Maybe in San Diego you can get that sort of mileage year-round, but anywhere that it actually gets cold you'll see the RX fuel economy plummet in the winter when it has to run the ICE to generate heat. Even up here, just a few hunded miles north of you, I see a significant drop in fuel economy in the winter. If you factor year-round average fuel economy for an RX in "average" weather conditions, the RX doesn't handily beat either one, in fact my wife's E350 gets better fuel economy than my RX right now.

I agree on the iDrive sucking, though it's suckiness has been somewhat diminished in newer generations. Honestly though, how often do you use the nav system? I don't drive to some place I need guidance to but more than once every couple of months. The MBZ nav system, while being light years behind Toyota/Lexus, gets the job done. I'd gladly trade some nav system usability to address all my other complaints.

Go check the specs. The 5 series gets 25 mpg highway. Most of my driving is highway or expressway. My wife's E350 actually get's better than 25 mpg on pure highway driving.

Despite the fact that I had an ECU fail on it recently, I can't really harp on reliability. I'm sure it was a fluke and I'm not really interested in getting into a "consumer reports says so..." sort of debate. My complaints are more around the many things that annoy me about the car. When I bought it I chose it because it had the room I needed for two young kids and hobbies with lots of gear, and it got great fuel economy for a car with that much space. I valued those two things above all other decision factors at that time. Items that have since come to annoy me are: - POOR front seats. They are so uncomfortable that we can no longer take the car on long road trips, as my wife's back is sore for a week afterwards. - handling is too soft. Too much body roll. Lack of feedback and responsiveness. I'm sure others will chime and say that it's a luxury SUV, and it's smooth because that's what people want. I guess one man's smooth is another man's crappy handling. There are many other luxury vehicles that are still smooth but handle much better. - No subwoofer in a $50K luxury SUV with ML sound? In general, I'm very unimpressed with the ML sound system, even in comparison to the ML systems in other Lexus vehicles. - Lexus dealership service. When I took it in to get the ECU failure repaired, they returned it with TWO door dings in it. - "AWD" system. Sure all four wheels can be made to go round and round, but to call the RX an AWD is the greatest exaggeration in history. - The general treatment of Lexus customers as morons that will kill themselves given the opportunity. Everything from the "I agree" screen to locking out most functions while driving, to the obnoxious warning lights for even the most minor of issues like low washer fluid. I've since come to the realization that I don't need an SUV, and I don't need a hybrid to meet my needs. I am likely to sell this thing in the next year and get a BMW 535xi wagon or a MBZ E-class wagon (if they come out with a sport package for it). Either one gives me the space I need, has gas mileage comparable to the RX, handles light years better than the RX, comes with better dealership service, and generally treats drivers like they are intelligent enough to dial the phone or use the nav system while driving. Edit: Oh yeah, they both come with "real" AWD systems, to boot.

Nope. After having lived with it for a year, I wouldn't buy it again. Sure it's reliable (or so RX400h tells me- mine's been in the shop more than my wife's MBZ), and sure it's a hybrid. However, it's many shortcomings now outweigh those benefits. If I had to do it again I'd definitely buy something else.