lex460

A week ago I traded in my 2001 LS430 for a 2009 CPO LS460 AWD and already I am experiencing buyer's remorse. I am hoping this forum can help me.

While I love the styling of the 460 (the one aspect of the 430 I was not thrilled with) and all the tech toys, I am having a real problem with the ride quality of the 460. I bought the 430 new and put 190,000 kilos (120,000 miles) on it over nine years without a single problem and I got to know what an LS rides like.

I know the 460 is a firmer ride and, for the most part, I appreciate that. However driving along, mostly in the 30-90 KPH (20-55 MPH) range, it often feels as if the transmission is in too high a gear and the car is almost about to stall. If I step on the gas the problem goes away.

If the road is level and I put the cruise on and set to 90KPH (55 MPH) you can feel a continuous, intermittent, mild hesitation.

Before posting I searched all prior posts for similar problems but nothing seems to match. I read some people have experienced what feels like drive-shaft vibrations but, IMO, my problem feels more like bad gear selection. I have also read that some people say the car wants to be driven hard but I have a hard time accepting this behaviour as "designed-in". I also tried using the "S6" gear setting thinking this might limit how high a gear gets selected but this gave no improvement.

I live in an area where e the road has numerous curves and low rolling hills (one that was very enjoyable to drive in the 430) but the ride in the 460 is most unpleasant.

I purchased the 96/160,000 kilo (96/100,000 miles) extended warranty with the car (it only has 11,000 kilos on it now) so I am hoping I have nothing to worry about.

I was hoping to find a TSB on this problem but no luck. It would be great if I could get some advice before I go back to the dealer so I don't have an uphill battle to convince them there is a problem and they don't have to spend a lot of time looking for a solution.

PS. Our driveway slopes down to the house and when backing out (i.e., up) the drive the car wants to roll forward between the time I take my foot off the brake and put it on the gas. I know I can use the auto parking brake (APB) feature but I don't recall this problem with the 430 which did not have APB. As I recall, the 430 did not roll at all (as if the idle speed alone was sufficient to keep it in place). Is my 460's behaviour normal?

TIA,

Ed

After owning 3 LS430's 2 LS 460's IMO you will come to like the 460 so much better. The issue you mention does not sound to be a ride issue more of a 8 speed transmission issue. Yes if Lexus didn't add the 8 speed you might be complaining about the gas mileage, this is the main reason for the 8 speed. It is the hardest thing to get used to but after awhile you while you will get used to it. I found that S7 works well for me when cruising below 60mph. the good news is the steering and brakes are so much better than the 430 and the looks are great as BMW and Mercedes copied the look from Lexus.You will note that the 430 feels heaver than the 430 making for me a much more fun car to drive. For some reason I miss driving the 460 and find myself having to just go for a ride, never had that with the 430..

Next to LS460

[No Laminate windows just triangle fix. Listen to attached file.

VOC002.mp3

Interesting please post back when you hear something..

I have the same thing with my '99 LS400. All the windows open. My wife has called my out of bed because she hears a beeping noise and sees the windows coming down. I have seem it myself....with the keys hanging in the kitchen.

I am also having a problem where the car doesn't start occasionally and needs a jump. This can happen if the car idles for 15 minutes, or I have the door open for 15 minutes, or if the only driving I do in a day is just car rotation in the driveway. Seems fine if I take it on a long ride.

And after the windows go down, the car WILL start. Not sure if these are independent or related. It is at the dealers (8 days now) and of course everything is functioning normally.

Any ideas??

Thanks!

John

Remove the battery from all but one key, repeat until you have found the bad key. Replace your main car battery, step one when dealing with Lexus electrical problems.If you have any after market equipment on the car remove it. As you may know it is easy to remove items from the back seat and not have the rear drivers door fully closed and walk away with the door slightly open and the car lights on.

Might have a bad lower ball joint, probably allot more than that.

Here is a picture of the parts cleaned up.

Thanks for sharing this with us. Let us know how successful the fix is for you.

Your Welcome works great.

This seems to be the bottom line.

Step one do the triangle seal up repair. If you are happy with the amount of wind noise done. If not go to step two.

Step two have the seals checked for fold over (rare)and drivers windows replaced with the Laminate windows. Still not happy.

You have what you have. Which seems the same amount of wind noise I find in any flagship auto.

This is also the experience of various insiders working for Lexus.

It may only be the 2010 then...

No. The 2010 requires oil change at 5K too and it uses 0W20 which is 100% synthetic. After 10K miles I switched to 5W20, Mobil 1. The car is running smoother and quieter with 5W20.

I noticed the same thing less chain noise with Mobil 1 5-20w full syn over the Toyota red.

Here is a picture of the parts cleaned up.

Thanks for sharing this with us. Let us know how successful the fix is for you.

The results are the same as craneys just easier and quicker. I did this to my 2 460's so I never really had much wind noise sometimes I would wonder what every one is getting excited about may be if I didn't do this right away I would have noticed the noise some others are having, to me this car is quieter than a S550 as far as wind noise. I thought the cross wind noise is what most were complaining about or maybe not.

I wasn't that careful so I removed some scratches from the front of the triangle, very easy to do. Also to remove the old adhesive I used paper towel and goof off and just kept rubbing and turning the towel to a clean spot. A razor blade was a big help. Also have a couple of micro fine towels for final clean up. Good Luck

Here is a picture of the parts cleaned up.

Next put a bead of glue in the crack and up to the rubber gaskets you will see the openings by the gasket ends that you need to fill with glue they are wide open. Same as JMcraneys. then I put my glue on the triangle only then just install this Lexel is so sticky that it will hold the triangle. Note you have to remove the guide pieces, (I used a small electrical side cutters) off the triangles before you clean them as it makes cleaning them easier. Then as seen in the picture add the glue and press on to the car. Don't worry if you get some on the part or the car just remove with Mineral Spirits it come's right off.

Here is the tape installed it is self sticking so no glue yet.

OK Follow the instructions given here

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls460-ls460l-and-ls600h/352398-ls460-wind-noise-fix-continued-discussion-28.html

but instead I used metal tape that you can cut with a scissors, and instead of silicone I used Lexel this stuff cleans up with mineral spirits and no waiting you can drive in .5 hour. I will now continue and post some pictures. Also a heat gun to heat the triangle and then pull it off starting from the upper tip. The heat gun makes it easy to pull off. Then the clean up with Goof off the strong stuff they also make a weak version. I also used a small screw driver to first remove the foam and its sticky tape then the goof off for final clean up of the triangle and the car.

I hope you all know that the wind noise issue is part of the 460 design, to keep asking if it is gone is wasting time. All the dealers know that is will be gone with the next LS not this one. There are some problems with one of the gaskets folding over but other than that forget about it. Just like when the new C class came out they bitched about the wind noise but they got over it real quick the LS people not so much. Don't want wind noise don't buy a LS 460.

The wind noise is indeed a feature of some of the 2010 LSs too. But, repairing it is a 10 minute/2$ DIY project for most of the problem cars.

So out of all the dealers and Lexus corp you believe you have a 10 min fix. :whistles:

Lex460 -

JEff in Tex is right. A DIY fix has been known for at least a couple of years. See jmcraney's fix on Club Lexus forum. He has been extremely helpful in providing directions to do the fix. Trouble is I am not a DIY type of guy and I am looking at a new LS460 later this year and am interested to see if the 2010 still has the problem. The fix isn't really a design change at all and I was hopefull that Lexus finally got it!! Seems not. In any case the bottom line is that not everyone has the problem, perhaps the majority, and it can be fixed.

Hi I know about the Jim Craney fix and it does take care of a big noise problem on a percentage of the cars and if you have wind noise from this area this does make a big difference. In fact I will post a fix like craneys but no metal cutting, this does not still make all the wind noise go away, so called hockey pucks on the front window sides may stop the cross wind noise but I for one don't want that on my car. the noise on my 460's in not detracting at all and I did the LEX460 (modified jmcraney) fix and I have been happy in fact all the cars I drive have had wind noise of some sort. I will post it with some pixs take your choice they both do the same thing fill in the gasket ends and seal gap and triangle holes.

I hope you all know that the wind noise issue is part of the 460 design, to keep asking if it is gone is wasting time. All the dealers know that is will be gone with the next LS not this one. There are some problems with one of the gaskets folding over but other than that forget about it. Just like when the new C class came out they bitched about the wind noise but they got over it real quick the LS people not so much. Don't want wind noise don't buy a LS 460.

The wind noise is indeed a feature of some of the 2010 LSs too. But, repairing it is a 10 minute/2$ DIY project for most of the problem cars.

So out of all the dealers and Lexus corp you believe you have a 10 min fix. :whistles:

I hope you all know that the wind noise issue is part of the 460 design, to keep asking if it is gone is wasting time. All the dealers know that is will be gone with the next LS not this one. There are some problems with one of the gaskets folding over but other than that forget about it. Just like when the new C class came out they bitched about the wind noise but they got over it real quick the LS people not so much. Don't want wind noise don't buy a LS 460.

I would have her drive a 430 I think the 460 is to big feeling for most women do to the higher belt line. A friend of mines wife drove my 430 and loved it 460 not so much.

So far I lucked out on my new 09 I got last fall. I was surprised though because 2 other Ls's I test drove had the wind noise. The one I got is quiet. When I was test driving I first thought I was just being picky because I was so spoiled in my Phaeton which had double paned glass and shared the same chassis as the Bentley Flying Spur. I later read threads about this problem and don't exactly know why some are ok and other not, but they are Toyota's after all :(

Laminated glass is in all LS's except the standard. Your service dept will put Laminate in if you ask them to. I drove a few Phaeton's more like the LS 430 than 460 except more problems. If you want a Phaeton buy a LS 430 even more of a automobile.

The sport package is now available, you may want to trade it. The many hours not spent in the BMW service dept will more than make up for the money lost. :chairshot:

Well

In the LS460 both the low beams AND high beams are projectors, just separate. If you're noticing a gap between the low beam and high beam, you can either lower the high beam projectors, or raise the low beam projectors. Both should have adjustment bolts on the back of the headlights.

The LS460 high beam projectors have a reverse cutoff shield, so they only provide light ABOVE a horizontal line. The low beam projectors only provide light BELOW a horizontal line. So it's 100% possible for there to be a large gap between the low and high if they're not aligned perfectly.

On the LS 460 the headlights high and low are adjusted as one unit. If you replace the bulb the alignment can be affected that is why they recommend if you are going to do a alignment you might want to replace the bulb if you have some hours on it. You can check to see if the car is in spec by following the attached info. Use ctrl shift + to rotate.

Have fun.

460 head pg 1.PDF

460 head pg 2.PDF

460 head pg3.PDF

460 head pg 4.PDF

Today I walked up to a new 750 I opened the drivers door and felt a tugging while opening it. I was not a even resistance but and kind of fighting then release feeling very annoying, then I let the auto door closer pull the door closed. very noisy compared to the LS. the salesman was on his way to talk to me I told him I would be back.

If the BMW flagship can't even get the drivers door right what is the rest of the car like. I lost my mood to drive this machine. Maybe next time.

If you replace the bars and your vibration goes away you just masked the vibration problem you need to get the wheels and tires right first.

Huh? How does one "mask a vibration problem"?

By tighting up the suspension you could mask vibrations. Rule #1 get the wheels and tires right first when fighting vibrations.

I have to disagree. It is impossible to "mask vibrations" by fixing suspension problems. If a vibration was caused by a suspension problem and fixing the suspension problem eliminated the vibration, then the cause of that vibration problem has been fixed. Causes of vibrations are independent -- fixing any one cause of vibrations can not mask a vibration caused by a completely different problem.

I think that is what he is saying here. The vibration is still there as the bars do not cause vibration, he just can't feel it now.

Except for a little sloppiness in the steering which I didn't realized until the strut bar bushings were replaced, the high speed vibration was the only sign of a problem when my strut bar bushings were finally replaced around 83,000 miles after about 6-8,0000 of worsening vibrations -- no clunks or other suspension noises, rotors and brakes were fine -- front brake pads had been replaced for the first time and rotors turned at just over 71,000 miles, rims were and still are perfect. My 00 LS is now at 122,000 miles and still vibration free. I'll probably be replacing the strut bars and bushings for a second time at between 150K and 160K miles.