Mildew Smell From Air Vents

[Mold Supervisor]

NONCONFORMITY 681.102(15), F.S. (2012)

Rue v. Toyota Motor Sales USA, Inc., 2012-0352/STP (Fla. NMVAB February 10, 2013)

The Consumer complained of a foul odor of mold or mildew intermittently emanating from the air conditioner vents in her 2011 Toyota Camry when the vehicle was first started or after the car had been sitting for a few hours. The Consumer testified this odor sometimes lasted for two to four minutes before dissipating. During that time, she rode in the vehicle with the windows open, because it was not convenient to employ the procedure suggested by the Manufacturer’s authorized service agent, which was to get into the vehicle, open all the windows, turn on the engine and air conditioner, get out of the vehicle and let the air conditioner blow for two minutes, and then get back into the vehicle and drive away. None of the repairs corrected the problem. The Manufacturer asserted the alleged nonconformity did not substantially impair the use, value or safety of the motor vehicle. The Manufacturer also asserted that any alleged odor in the vehicle was “the direct result of environmental conditions.” In support of that assertion, the Manufacturer’s witness testified that he experienced a “faint whiff of something” for “one to two seconds” on two of the repair visits; however, he acknowledged he did not know how long the vehicle had been sitting after the Consumer dropped it off and before he performed his test. In his view, “you will smell something for a brief moment in any air conditioner.” The Consumer’s vehicle was dropped off the night before the final repair attempt in order to try to duplicate the conditions under which the Consumer experienced the intermittent air conditioner odor. According to the Manufacturer’s representative, “it is not uncommon to notice a somewhat musty odor” upon initial start-up in any vehicle; however, he stated that he did not notice this odor at all in the Consumer’s vehicle. A majority of the Board concluded the evidence established that the intermittent foul odor substantially impaired the use and value of the vehicle, thereby constituting one or more nonconformities as defined by the statute and the applicable rule. Accordingly, the Consumer was awarded a replacement vehicle.

[Mold Supervisor]

Karp v. Toyota Motor Sales USA, Inc.-Lexus Division, 2012-0270/FTL (Fla. NMVAB January 30, 2013)

In a third air conditioner odor case, the Consumer complained of a foul odor from the air conditioner in her 2012 Lexus IS 250. According to the Consumer, the smell was “vinegar-y” and offensive, and was worse when the vehicle was first started in the morning, so much so that she would leave the door open when she started the car, and started her drive with the windows down in order to air out the vehicle. She testified that on some days the smell tapers off after approximately 30 minutes, but on other days – particularly very hot days – the smell would last all day. The Manufacturer asserted the alleged nonconformity did not substantially impair the use, value or safety of the motor vehicle, because the “concern had been repaired and the customer’s vehicle was currently up to the manufacturer’s specifications.” The Manufacturer’s witness testified that the odor complained of by the Consumer had to have been caused by micro-organisms on the air conditioner evaporator, but because neither he nor the authorized service agent had ever been able to recreate the odor, the problem had to have been corrected by the repairs that were performed. The Board found that the foul odor coming from the air conditioner substantially impaired the use, value and safety of the vehicle, thereby constituting one or more nonconformities as defined by the statute and the applicable rule. Accordingly, the Consumer was awarded a refund.

[Mold Supervisor]

REASONABLE NUMBER OF ATTEMPTS §681.104, F.S.:

What Constitutes a Reasonable Number of Attempts §681.104, F.S.; §681.1095(8), F.S.

Browning v. Toyota Motor Sales USA, Inc., 2012-0347/FTL (Fla. NMVAB February 15, 2013)

(See “Nonconformity” above)

The Manufacturer stipulated that the vehicle was presented to an authorized service agent for repair of the air conditioner odor nonconformity on September 12, 2012 (no repair order given to Consumer) and September 13, 2012, when water was found around the evaporator core, and an air conditioner mist service was performed. The Manufacturer stipulated that it was afforded a final opportunity to repair the vehicle after receipt of written notification from the Consumer. On October 10, 2012, the vehicle was presented to the Manufacturer's designated repair facility for the final repair attempt. At that time, the evaporator was cleaned and the Consumer was instructed to set the air conditioner to outside air prior to turning off the vehicle. The Consumer again brought the vehicle in for repair of the foul odor on October 27, 2012, and November 17, 2012. The evidence established that the nonconformity was subjected to repair by the Manufacturer’s service agent a total of five times. Under the circumstances, the Manufacturer had a reasonable number of attempts to conform the subject vehicle to the warranty as contemplated by the Lemon Law. Accordingly, the Consumer was awarded a refund.

[Mold Supervisor]

McBride v. Toyota Motor Sales USA Inc., 2013-0445/JAX (Fla. NMVAB March 10, 2014)

The Consumers complained of a mold or mildew odor from the air conditioning vents in their 2013 Toyota Sienna XLE. The Consumers first noticed the odor around the time of their 5,000 mile service, but attributed it to the fact that there had been a lot of rain in their area; they assumed the odor would go away after the rain subsided. The odor remained, however, and worsened. The odor was described as pungent, and became worse as the outside temperature and humidity increased. The odor occurred when the vehicle was first started in the morning, lasting for 40 to 60 seconds. The odor would recur if the vehicle sat without the engine running for approximately one and one-half hours, although it was not as pungent later in the day as it was first thing in the morning. Mr. McBride acknowledged that he declined to have a cleaning and filter change performed that was recommended in a Toyota Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) related to HVAC odors, because he felt that he should not have to pay $300.00 for the service, particularly since the service was intended only to improve, and not to eliminate, the odor problem. Mr. McBride pointed out that the 2011 Toyota Sienna he and his wife traded in for the 2013 Sienna did not exhibit a similar problem. Mr. McBride testified that the odor was a health problem for him, because of his allergies, and he was concerned about the health of his three-year-old and one-week-old children.

The Manufacturer, represented by Southeast Toyota Distributors, asserted the alleged nonconformity did not substantially impair the use, value or safety of the vehicle. In addition, Southeast Toyota Distributors stated, “[f]urthermore, the customer declined the dealer and manufacturer the opportunity(ies) [sic] to perform the Technical Service Bulletin that would minimize what the customer is experiencing.” A Senior Field Technical Specialist with Southeast Toyota Distributors, testified that Toyota Motor Sales USA, Inc., had determined that HVAC odors were not covered under its warranty, and were therefore the responsibility of the Consumer to correct. He indicated that he has frequently smelled the odor in question in other Toyota vehicles, and believes it was not mold, but simply “stale air.” He acknowledged he had no personal knowledge as to whether any tests were performed by the Manufacturer to confirm that the odor was not caused by mold. The Board concluded that the mold or mildew odor from the air conditioning vents substantially impaired the use, value and safety of the vehicle, thereby constituting one or more nonconformities as defined by the statute and the applicable rule. Accordingly, the Consumers were awarded a refund.

[Draygone]

I had the same issue. Turns out Lexus uses recycled water when they wash the car (atleast here they do). That water is on the towels they use to wipe the interior. This is where the smell came from.

My dealer washes my car every Tuesday. They only wash the outside. No wiping or anything on the inside of the car. Problem solved.

I hope this helps.

[cwes350]

I have this same bad smell in my 2014 ES350. Been driving for about a year and found no solution.

[LEX-SV]

I mentioned this over in the ISx50 section regarding prevention of the mold problem. Although I think for cars that already have the mold smell problem, the damage might already be done and hard to eliminate.

In my Lexus IS350 owned over last 6 years (as well as 2 Honda Civics and 2 Mercedes C-classes) I have never had the mold issue. I am wondering if these practices have somehome prevented it, just a guess:

. Always use "Outside Air", not "Recirculate" mode. Only if in especially stinky area or behind a gross polluter do I use "Recirculate" mode briefly.

. When car sits in garage, I always leave moonroof in Vent position.

[LEX-SV]

I have this same bad smell in my 2014 ES350. Been driving for about a year and found no solution.

I was curious...

Do use your Climate Control in Recirculate mode or Outside Air mode mostly?

[dwince54]

There is no solution to the problem no matter how the air is circulated. The service manager told me that Lexus would not recognize the issue and he also told me that it is not an unusual problem(if you can believe that). The corporate office told me to stand outside my running car and let it run until the smell stops. I was also told to put deodorizer in the air vent.I also replaced a cabin filter that was unnecessary. Lo and behold about a year after all this nonsense, Lexus dealership calls me to offer me a new lease on a brand new Lexus wanting me to sign on for four more years. I said no way repeating all the things above concerning the HVAC. He acted like he never heard it before. I also told him I would never purchase another Lexus. That car was the 4th one and the last. About 2 months ago he calls me again offering me the same deal for the remainder of my lease. I couldn't lose on this one so I took it. That's the only way to get rid of the smell. I would put the pressure on your dealership. Go see whomever all the way up to the owner and make sure you document what each person says and when they said it. Call the corporate office too. Postit on their Facebook page and Twitter account.

[cwes350]

I use both inside and outside air depending on circunstances.

Tried to always use outside for a minute or two before shutting off, and made no dif.

[LEX-SV]

cwes350 - Thanks for answer to my question on recirculation mode usage. In my case, I'm using "Outside Air" mode over 95% of time since day 1.

dwince54 - I hope you get some resolution regarding your Lexus. At this point I can understand why you would say that you "would never purchase another Lexus". But one thing to keep in several other automakers have similar complaints about smelly air vents including BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Acura, Ford, Honda, VW, Jag, GM, Chrysler so I'm not sure what automakers that leaves....

[cwes350]

I did not know all others had the same problem.

I do like my Lexus in most every other way, but don't like navigation lockout and don't like the mouse thing. I would like touch screen and more efficient menus and would expect that this day in age, the voice recognition would be much better.

[LEX-SV]

^ Sadly many auto brands have owners reporting same type of problem.

Are you in a location that has high humidity? Have you tried using your climate control in "outside air" mode all the time (100% while driving and when turning off)?

[cwes350]

always before turning off.

but the car automatically sets itself to internal on startup.

[LEX-SV]

always before turning off.

but the car automatically sets itself to internal on startup*.

* Always using AUTO mode?

[ALA]

Judging by the responses from different Lexus owners, various models and model years, this is a bigger problem than they are admitting to. On my last service visit, they cleaned the evaporator core and internals with a special "kit" and installed a charcoal filter which has helped, However I live in NJ and it is now cold. True test will be the warmer spring/summer temps when the A/C is on full time.

The Service Manager finally admitted Lexus recognizes this as a problem and is working on a fix - I wouldn't hold my breath....

'

[cwes350]

I usually leave mine on auto.

I agree that in the northeast we are not seeing this problem right now.

I will address with the dealer to see if they are willing to do something before the warm weather.

[LEX-SV]

Sounds like AUTO mode defaults to Recirculation mode for faster cooling/heating?

. My recommendation (after the dealer does the remedial treatment) is never use the AUTO mode. In 10+ years I have never used AUTO for more than a few seconds and never had problems of this kind, and I only use outside air unless behind stinky car.

. If you hit AUTO, immediatly adjust fan speed, etc. to put it in Manual mode. My cars stay in that Manual mode before/after startup .

[BrockNRoll]

We purchased a 2015 ES300h in August of last year.  Early this summer, we started noticing a mildew type odor when we started the car.  I brought this to the attention of our local Lexus service department who advised me that this was a "known issue" in several newer models and that they were still working to resolve the problem.  They provided me with literature on how to reduce the odors like switching the A/C to fresh air before I park it and getting the A/C evaporator cleaned as frequently as biannually.  I'm sorry, but I'm appalled!  First, the literature that they gave me was dated in 2013 so they darn well knew about this and should have disclosed it as a potential problem when we bought the car.  Second, I don't know about everyone else, but we paid a pretty penny for this car and we should not have odors a year in.  We don't have kids at home, no pets in the car, we don't smoke, don't use air fresheners, the car is garaged ALWAYS and we don't have our trash cans in the garage which are all some of the contributing factors that they listed for causing additional odors.  This is unacceptable and after having owned several other Lexus vehicles previously, I never expected it.  I've lived it Florida where it's much hotter and more humid than Tennessee and didn't have these issues.   

[clender]

Unfortunately, Lexus refused to assist me and I got extremely sick. I gave them the car back an almost immediately got better. I paid off the remaining year of the lease just to make this issue go away for me. $4,500!!

I purchased a new car at Cadillac a CTS V and couldn't be happier with my decision. I continue to follow all the posts online and people are having the same issues all over the warmer states. I had 3 vehicles with Lexus at the time. Now we have and Audi, a Cadillac and a VW. I will never get a Lexus again as long as I live. Terrible what they did to me. I was a Lexus customer for life but the screwed me over and I'm especially upset because I got ill from the car and they didn't care.

 

If you have this issue, don't waste your time, just return the car, your health is much more important than anything.

[BrockNRoll]

This is the response that I got from our local Lexus dealer.  This is the last Lexus I will own.  They either stand behind their cars or they don't and it doesn't appear that they do.  The "goodwill gesture" line is a joke!  For over $50K, I expect more than a "goodwill gesture".

Air conditioning occurs by the extraction of heat from the ambient air by way of an evaporative process. In an automotive system the condensation predominately collects at the base of the evaporator core.  This moisture is extracted from the evaporator case through gravity by a drain tube.  Airborne oils and solid matter are filtered through a fine micron filter element.  To further reduce odor, Lexus offers a charcoal impregnated air filter as an option.  Regardless of the filter, some of these particles remain airborne and attach themselves to the evaporator case.  In this moist environment, mildew develops which can cause an objectionable odor.

                                                   To remedy this condition a number of automotive manufacturers and automotive chemical suppliers offer evaporator cleaning kits.  The Lexus evaporator cleaning kit, include a disinfectant to remove mildew and slow its future growth.  The frequency of this service depends on such factors as atmospheric humidity, Lexus intake settings, frequency of use and airborne dust and dander levels.  For these reasons an evaporator case clean and disinfect service should be performed periodically

                                                   As a measure to address the odor concern expressed by Mrs. Brock on her service visit to us on November 1, 2016, we suggested using the fresh air mode as much as possible and gave tips to reduce the amount of moisture to get caught in the evaporator.  Lexus of Knoxville also offered an evaporator case cleaning service to Mrs. Brock as a onetime goodwill gesture. Which we are still happy to perform at no cost,  if Mrs. Brock would allow.

[nOraKat]

Edit:

Question for Mold Supervisor:

Regarding those cases you posted: Does it mean that the customer got a full refund?

How did he go about getting that?

----

original post:

I have a 2016 Lexus ES 350 w 23k miles. After about a couple months, I notice that if I did not use the car for a day or couple of days, I would smell a strange yet familiar smell coming out of the car vents, especially after I just turned it on. I smelled it before on other cars. Could this be the smell you're talking about? It is not that noticeable when I use the car everyday. I think it can be interpreted as a mildew smell. I took it to the dealer and mentioned it but they did not smell it or the rest of the other problems I mentioned. To them there is never a problem! Anyway I have yet to figure it out. Maybe the heater core? I keep AC on 24/7 whether it is hot of cold outside. 

[Natalie2413]

I am having the same mildew odor and my sunroof was leaking as well in my 2015 Lexus 200NX. My husband took it in for service to have the problem fixed, but the smell only got worse. The leak seems to be fixed, but not the terrible odor! I am so done with Lexus vehicles. I used to be in love with them. but now the love is gone! I'm so DONE!

 

[Natalie2413]

I am having the same mildew odor in my 2015 Lexus NX200. My husband recently took it in for service and had them to look at the fix the smell and the leaking in the sunroof. The sunroof issue seems to be resolved but not the odor, a matter of fact, the smell is getting worse every day! I am done with the Lexus vehicles. I was so impressed with the Lexus line of cars, but no more Lexus cars for me. I'm done!

[myrab]

I’m having the exact same issue.  There is a terrible smell coming from the vents in my LX600.  My very first service, I told the advisor about the smell.  When I picked up the car, I inquired about the odor.  The service advisor told me that “yes, they just found some mold.  They cleaned it out.”  The smell came back within a matter of days.  Each time I bring the car in for regular service,  I tell my service advisor about the odor.   At one point, the advisor told me he was going to talk to the service department, because every time I bring in the car, I’m complaining about the odor.  I’ve had a new air filter put in, with no change in the odor problem.  Of extreme importance is the fact that I’ve been sick, with respiratory distress since I’ve had this vehicle.  After one day of especially bad odor, nearly 24 hours later, I developed a deep chest cough, which I still have.  Four rounds of antibiotics, as well as new inhaler use, and I’m still sick.  I  tried to get rid of the car, through the GA lemon law. I retained an attorney, supposedly well versed in dealing with these issues.  A rep from Lexus Corporate came and inspected the car.  Lexus is allowed a final repair attempt,  which they did.  The verdict from Lexus is, no dice.  Nothing.  They will not buy the car back,  nor will they allow any monetary compensation for me.  For years, I’ve owned Toyotas, and my vehicle before this one, was a LX570.  
I’m sure Lexus is well aware of this issue, but obviously they’re unwilling to stand behind their product.  I will never own another Lexus, I expect much better of a $100,000+ vehicle. I’m not sure how much exposure this post receives, but bottom line, be very cautious if you’re thinking about getting a Lexus.   The hype surrounding Lexus, can’t buy a better vehicle blah blah blah, is just that.  Hype.  
And, 28,000 odometer miles later, I’m still sick.  As a side note, I have never ever been treated for allergies.  With no exceptions.