landar Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 I am operating off of little history on your issue and do not know how you got to the present condition. But if you took the belt off with the marks aligned then you cannot be too far off of TDC. So, moving the crank back to TDC will, most likely, be true TDC. And BTW, the piston on cylinder #1 can only be either at the top of its travel or the bottom of its travel when the crank aligns on TDC. However, you cannot rotate it enough to set it to both locations, so you will have see if the piston starts going down as you rotate the crank CW past TDC. If it started going up instead, then the piston was bottomed out. I do not think you will find that to be the case however. Hopefully that makes sense. Once you determine TDC, you want to rotate the crank approx. 50 degrees more. Then leave it there and work on the cams. Look at the marks and see how far you have to move them. It is really preferable to only go CW but you can also go CCW if its not too far. I mean, you may not have a choice because moving it too far in either direction will result in hitting a piston. The is a special tool with prongs to fit the holes in the cam pulley for moving them. However, you could try that 19mm bolt on the cam. Just be aware that the "bolt" is really just a cap and will easily come loose if you go CCW. There is another bolt behind that one that is the "real" holding bolt. The tensioner should not make the belt jump. Even without the tensioner, that belt is pretty taut in there. I never even saw the belt move when I pulled the tension pin on mine. Just be extremely precise when aligning the belt markings and you should be ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luccig Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 This is exactly what happened to me too.. http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/tech-conversions/71520-1uz-timing-belt-change-marks-always-out.html Not sure if I'm allowed to post links here, so please forgive me if I'm not.. here's what the guy said and it happes that was exactly my situation: "I set the crank to TDC, then rotated the camshaftsso the little grove on the inner section of each cam gear is deadstraight with the marks on the back. Put the belt on plenty of times,released the tensioner and span engine around twice, when at TDC againthe groves on the cam gears do not align where they were previously byabout a tooth length. If I then spin the motor until the marks on thecam gears do align to the backing plate marks, then when i eventuallyput the timing cover back on to check how much it's off by, off by about7 degrees or so.I've put the belt on and off about 5 times and still the same thinghappens, I got no idea if I'm leaving too much slack somewhere in thebelt but I can't get the belt on any other way I've always made surenothing spins while putting the belt on." And that's how he said he solved it: "Endedup getting it right, I set the cams off one tooth before putting thebelt on, and when I put it on turned engine around twice everythinglined up" And some other guy had the same issue.. "had the same drama the other day when i did a 1uz it think it was becauseof the hydraulic tensioner before and after the belt had tension itchanged. just had to change it a couple of times to get it right" So, if I'll be able to put the cams back where they should be, using your excellent suggetions Randall, I'll do the same (one tooth back) and see if they line up. If I will succeed, I will post the results anyway, just in case somebody will need it in the future. Thank you. (typo edited) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landar Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 Ok a few questions: What brand of timing belt are you using? And does it have the white timing marks? Are you also replacing the water pump, idler pulleys and tensioner? Brands? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luccig Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Yeah, to my shame, I have ordered a timing kit off Ebay since in Canada you can only buy them from a dealer who marks them up like crazy. Timing belt brand: ITM No marks. I made marks on it based on the old timing belt which I marked before removing, counted teeth and marked the new belt. Yes, replaced the water pump, same stupid brand ITM. I did replace the idler pulley on the left, the fixed one, but the tensioner one I did not, since the old one is running OK but the stupid new one gets stuck when the tensioner pushed it in. I am so mad that I've ordered and waited two weeks for this things to be shipped to Toronto. However, now that I am stuck, I have called a dealer and ordered a timing belt. They did not have the water pump on stock, otherwise I think I would have coughed up the 500 bucks they quoted me for. (On this note, I ordered Sewell parts before from US, but now they don't ship to Canada anymore, I guess they were pushed by the dealers agreements to stop shipping overseas.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landar Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 I do not know anything about the ITM parts. Personally, I always go for OEM parts when they are critical to the operation of the engine. I suspect that you may have mis-marked the belt or the ITM quality is low. In any case, I think your new Lexus belt will be factory marked and you should not have a problem as long as you get those white marks on the spot. Your first order of 'business' is to get the crank position verified and the cams close to their marks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luccig Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Yes, and I'm working on it right now.. The problem I have is the marks on the Cams (both of them) are about 120 degrees away from where they should be.. not sure how the heck I managed to get them there. And when pulling them back they go for a while then stop on something and refuse to go farther. I thought about pulling them little by little, alternatively, but so far no luck. They don't get all the way back to the mark, this is the current problem at hand.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landar Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 Oh boy. Well, for one thing, never force them especially if you hear a metallic 'clink'. Having said that, you may be experiencing the normal spring tension of the cam and that takes a little more muscle to overcome. You may have to 'nurse' the cams back into position by moving the crank a little bit, then the cams a little bit until you get it back on track. Did you move the crank to TDC before moving the cams? If so and the cams are now binding, you may have to bring the crank back and slowly work everything forward. Small steps until you get the right settings. When a cam gets 'stuck', try turning the crank in either direction and see if moving the crank (pistons) frees it up a bit. I am really hoping you do not have things so out of time that you have to pull the cams to get space. I am thinking you should be ok because you should not be able to move the crank and cams to a point where they would not re-mesh without forcing things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luccig Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Randall, you're a life saver. This piece of info did it for me: "Once you determine TDC, you want to rotate the crank approx. 50 degrees more. Then leave it there and work on the cams." BTW, TDC at 50 degrees is crank pulley white mark at the indented dot on the black mask (the one inscribed with the 10,0, etc. It has a white dot, a protuberance, at exactly 50 degrees). Once I left it at 50, I was able to rotate the cams, nice and slow, back to their marks. Now tomorrow I'm getting the Lexus belt and setting it up. Thank you! I can go to sleep happy now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sha4000 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Randall, you're a life saver. This piece of info did it for me: "Once you determine TDC, you want to rotate the crank approx. 50 degrees more. Then leave it there and work on the cams." BTW, TDC at 50 degrees is crank pulley white mark at the indented dot on the black mask (the one inscribed with the 10,0, etc. It has a white dot, a protuberance, at exactly 50 degrees). Once I left it at 50, I was able to rotate the cams, nice and slow, back to their marks. Now tomorrow I'm getting the Lexus belt and setting it up. Thank you! I can go to sleep happy now was about to rcommend this while reading your post #106 and scrolled down and see that you figured it out already. This is the reason why you have to put it at the 50 degrees past TDC mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luccig Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Yeah, the funny thing is initially I put them at 50, marked with markers the old belt, took it off, counted teeth a few times, marked the new one, etc. etc. What I did not know then is the TDC + 50 mark in the photo below Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luccig Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Everything went smooth once I got the next thing in order: - Crank at 50 degrees after TDC. I cannot stress enough the importance of this. It is NOT ONLY for not hitting the valves (some say that is not even a big issue, you can't have enough force to bend them, but I am not sure) BUT to be able to set the CAMS at 25 degrees each, on the "T" mark AND so they don't jump around easily when you pull and push the timing belt to put it on. - ORIGINAL Toyota belt. The stupid aftermarked I got from EBay is crap crap crap. Should I have insisted to use it, I'm sure my car would be garbage by now. - If one happened to move them out of whack with the timing belt OFF, like I did, make sure the crank is at TDC + 50. Use Randall nice suggestion, above, first spark plug off, long screwdriver on the whole, make sure you are at TDC (screwdriver comes down, i.e. your 1st cylinder just passed TDC). Ah, one more thing, when I disassembled the idler pully assembly, the one with the hydraulic motor on it, I could have not done it without unbolting the AC Compressor first. A big bolt on the side and one behind the OIL filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exhaustgases Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 So is it now running good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luccig Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Yes, running perfect. Two days later, about 160 KM so far, nothing is out of the ordinary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ideasbegan2 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Having been off a few rotations on both right and left cams, how would I make sure both sides are at TDC? Should I remove spark plugs at 1 and 2 ('05 V8 LS430) and do the screwdriver trick? 1 should be topped out and 2 should be bottomed? or both topped? Read the whole thread and a few others on other forums and hope I haven't done real damage so far. Right cam snap-rolled forward and I couldn't rotate it back. Found it can turn forward easily and snap-rolled 2 more times back close to original timing. Then I tried to rotate a little more but it kept springing forward. I must've had it done 3 rotations before I tried fiddling with the left cam. Same thing happened and I lost count how many revolutions. I eventually got the belt back on at 0 marks with correct belt markings (oem). But turning crank by hand, it definitely feels like there's resistance and even bounce (springing back or forward when letting go). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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