1992 Es 300

[Anovice]

I appreciate you helping me resolve a problem with my front swaybar bushings. They were changed and the problem resolved with no more knocks going over bumps. It is a few weeks later I have more problems:

#1 When I put the brakes on hard and the front end dips I hear a knock in what appears to be in the right front wheel (not going over a bump).

I brought it to the mechanic today and he seems to think the problem is the front lower control bar bushings. He was busy and did a quick look, but this was his initial idea of what the problem was. The cost for the bushings at the local parts supply is $25 each. So if in fact that is the problem it will not be an expensive fix. Does the knock sound symptomatic of the answer by the mechanic?

#2 The bigger problem is that I am leaking power steering fluid.

This occurred the other day and at the same time I began to hear the knock when I put the brakes on. I am uncertain if these 2 problems are tied together or not.

I first noticed the noise when taking off at low speed and it almost resembled a rubber band winding up. The more RPMs the more the higher the pitch of the rubber band noise. The wheel was not (and does not) need to be turned to hear the noise. You can also hear that you are low on steering fluidby turning the wheel. I added power steering fluid to the reservoir/to the "hot" level mark. After I added the fluid all noises stopped. In less than a day the level is about an 8th of an inch below the "cold min" level even when the fluid is hot. The level doesn't seem to be going lower than that mark, but at a point the noise starts to return.

While at the mechanic he tried to see what the problem is and his gut feeling is that it may be the rack (part is $342 with core return + labor). However, the underside of the car is absolutely soaked in power steering or oil fluid (including front lower control bar bushing and maybe that is what ruined that part). At this time he uncertain if that is the problem and the only problem. He told me to pick up 3 cans of gunk and bring the car back on Tuesday so he can put it on the lift, spray it and wash it to better see where the fluid is coming from.

With this second problem do you think it can be the rack and what other problems could it be? Any thoughts appreciated!

Anovice

[gbhrps]

The clunking noise may well be what your mechanic has diagnosed. It sounds consistent with what you describe. As for your power steering leak, there are several points. First, power steering fluid will not hurt rubber parts, whereas oil indeed will, unless the rubber parts are specifically compounded to resist oil. Oil will cause most rubber to swell and soften it. Your power steering leak typically is in the high pressure hose that feeds the steering rack, usually where the fittings are crimped onto the rubber hose. The only fix is a new factory or aftermarket hose assembly. But steering rack seals will harden and crack with time and heat to where the rack must be removed, disassembled , new seals installed, and then replaced on the vehicle. Sometimes its cheaper to just install a rebuilt rack, or even take a chance on a used rack from an auto recycler. Price and how long you wish to keep driving the vehicle are the determining factors. Either way, you have to determine which problem exists first. So, you clean up all of the oil from the rack and the hoses first and dry everything up, then put the car on a hoist, start it up, and with an assistant inside the car slowly turning the steering wheel side to side, you watch for the leaks underneath to find where your problem is. Good Luck!

[SRA]

I have a 93 ES 300 and had to replace my high pressure power steering hoses, there are 2 hoses that I replaced and I think they are both high pressure hoses. One costs about $100 and connects to the PS fan (I think). The other hose costs about $50. Both the hoses are a pain to remove and replace. My engine was also soaked with the power steering fluid , which is nothing but oil (the 93 ES300 uses ATF - auto transmission fluid), which I guess is oil and it may have damaged my CV boots too. My passenger side CV boots were worn out. So I also had to replace the drive axle on the passenger side. If you need any more info, let me know. Hope this helps.

[Anovice]

Thanks for the information.

Now here is what is interesting. Per my initial post, I have confirmed that the fluid in the reservoir is maintaining its level at about 1/8 th of an inch below the "cold min" level mark. Put another way, at the 'seam' of the plastic reservoir container. The fluid level is not going lower than that mark, but at a point the noise starts to return. I am starting to wonder if I have a small leak in the reservoir at that 'seam'. That, or the pressure is such at that level where more fluid is not being forced out at the point of the problem.

In any case tomorrow morning I bring in the car and the mechanic will clean the bottom of the engine and look for the leak.

Anovice

[SRA]

I had the exact same situation with the level of the PS fluid at the seam and I was almost certain it was the reservoir container. Then after changing the hoses, the level is fine and not at the seam. Looks like a very similar problem. Not sure why the leak stops at that level.

[Anovice]

Well, I am not certain if I am making any progress!

I took the car back in today (bottom cleaned the other day) and the mechanic, in his mind, is certain of the cause of leak in the power steering fluid. He said it is the 'big' hose that runs from the cooling fan to the power steering pump.

I went online to Park Place Lexus and all I could find was "P/s hose, pressure feed" at a cost of $306.79. Yikes! My first question is this "the hose that runs from the cooling fan to the power steering pump"? If so, it presents two problems. First, that is a bunch of change for a hose. Secondly, from what the mechanic showed me, to replace that hose requires a bunch of other stuff to come out of the engine first, so I can see $300 bill in labor.

I went by the local AutoZone and on their screen they show three different hoses. Once that runs to the gear, one that runs to the pump and one called a power steering return hose that runs from the gear. At about $32 for each hose, sure does not seem like anyone of the three are the $306.79 pressure feed hose from the Lexus dealer.

I have to add a quart of oil every two months due to gasket leaks in the engine, so before I spend $600 to 'maybe' fix the power steering leak, I am starting to think that possibly I should just add power steering fluid once a week and call it a day.

Another option is to take the car to a second mechanic I know and for $40 he will perform a dye test. He assures me this will isolate the leak(s) and claims he has the ability to fix the hose if that is the problem (can crimp the fittings onto the rubber hose).

I would greatly appreciate if you could help in determining which is the hose that runs from the cooling fan to the power steering pump and if you were in my shoes would you go for the second opinion and do the $40 dye test. Thanks much.

Anovice

[SRA]

I will look for the part number and post it shortly. It cost me around $100 or so (i had a friend buy it for me, not sure where he got that price, but I can check) and I paid around $100 to a mechanic to install it. The replace is a pain but a good mechanic can do it, its not a big deal, you just have a lot of other stuff in the way and need to be careful. Trying to pinpoint the leak in my opinion is not worth the trouble. It could be difficult to pinpoint especially if it is leaking under high pressure, but I may be wrong.

[Anovice]

I look forward to the part number when you get the chance. Thanks much.

Anovice

[SRA]

Sorry for the delay, i finally found the packing for the power steering hose, it is a hydraulic hose available only at a lexus dealer, the part number on the packing is 16927-62020. It is a Toyota Genuine part (it has this sticker). I cannot find the receipt, since my friend bought it for me. Hope this helps. Let me know if you need any more info.

[Anovice]

Thanks much.

I have noticed that the leaking has increased. Before I was adding ps fluid every 3-4 days and over the past 2 days I needed to add each day. One diffference is due to the heat I have been running the A/C and for whatever unknown reason, this has increased the rate of the leak.

Anovice

[SRA]

If you are replacing the high pressure hose, you may want to also consider replacing the hose that goes from the power steering reservoir. This is available at Autozone for about $50. It will be a pain to go back in there later, so I replaced both these hoses when i got mine done.

[busoptr]

Thanks much.

I have noticed that the leaking has increased. Before I was adding ps fluid every 3-4 days and over the past 2 days I needed to add each day. One diffference is due to the heat I have been running the A/C and for whatever unknown reason, this has increased the rate of the leak.

Anovice

It could be your hydraulic pump for the radiator fan is cracked and leaking power steering fluid.If it is I have 2 for sale!!! Dealer price is $ 399 I'll sell it for $ 60.00. iTS in excellent condition.

[Anovice]

Good to know and I will have definitive information Wednesday when I bring the car back in.

That said, the mechanic is fairly certain the problem is the hose. I ordered it on line as it was $30 less than the local dealer and it is to arrive UPS Tuesday. In the unlikely event it turns out not to be the problem, so long as the part is not used it can be returned.

Is has been about a week since I added p/s fluid, but that is because I have not used the air conditioning. Once I do and the cooling fan runs, I loose the fluid quickly.

After Wednesday I will post the findings.

Anovice

[Anovice]

As scheduled, I had the hose changed on Wednesday. Thus far the reservoir remains full, which is a good thing. If this was the problem (only) as it appears, the cost was $104 for the hose and $130 for labor.

Thanks for all the help!

Anovice