Is Nav Worth It?

[Zeusallmighty]

Hi all--

New to the forums. Looking to buy/lease an IS350 in the near future. I definitely will be looking to order the ML audio, but am presently leaning against the NAV option. Seems rather costly and not sure is functionally superior (or equivalent) to some late model portable GPS units on the market (e.g., Garmin Nuvi 700 series). Yes, the display in the center console looks sleek and modern, but what additional functionality does this integrated option offer?

Thanks

[CrunchySkippy]

There is a divided opinion here on whether or not the NAV is worth it... But before we get there, I'm not sure you can even get the ML audio without NAV. I believe on a previous thread it was determined the the portable GPS units now have Bluetooth - so the only additional feature the OEM NAV provides is the backup camera (which I think is pretty nice).

That's all I can think of. The decision is really yours, good luck.

This thread may have some information for you:

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...showtopic=40869

[Knightshade]

You absolutely can get ML without Nav, that's exactly what I did... for the reason you mention- Adding Nav would be $3000 and would do -less- than the $300 aftermarket GPSes you can buy today. (specifically an aftermarket nav doesn't cripple itself while the car is in motion... plus it can be moved to a rental vehicle if you travel, or your wifes car if taking it on a trip, etc....). Plus you can get realtime traffic in many aftermarket units today, which isn't available with the factory system... and you can get Bluetooth... so the only thing the factory unit really gives you stock is the backup camera... and honestly the car isn't so big you really need one.

Plus to update a Garmin GPS maps each year is $75. Your lexus dealer will want $300 for new maps.

Oh, and OEM Nav is bad for resale value too.

So, in short, skip the nav :)

[Zeusallmighty]

You absolutely can get ML without Nav, that's exactly what I did... for the reason you mention- Adding Nav would be $3000 and would do -less- than the $300 aftermarket GPSes you can buy today. (specifically an aftermarket nav doesn't cripple itself while the car is in motion... plus it can be moved to a rental vehicle if you travel, or your wifes car if taking it on a trip, etc....). Plus you can get realtime traffic in many aftermarket units today, which isn't available with the factory system... and you can get Bluetooth... so the only thing the factory unit really gives you stock is the backup camera... and honestly the car isn't so big you really need one.

Plus to update a Garmin GPS maps each year is $75. Your lexus dealer will want $300 for new maps.

Oh, and OEM Nav is bad for resale value too.

So, in short, skip the nav :)

Thanks, Knightshade...

Did you have to special order your IS with the ML only? If so, how was that experience? Haven't thoroughly searched the forum yet, but seems that "special orders" are something that many dealers shy away from or demand MSRP for... I'm not sure why this is the case...

[CrunchySkippy]

Oh, and OEM Nav is bad for resale value too.

That is taken out of context... You will still get more for a car with NAV on resale than you would on a similar car without NAV. The additional value allocated to the NAV would just be severely discounted. If you read the entire article, you will understand.

There is also an argument that for the extra dollars you are spending on the ML system, you can get a superior custom sound system (to include HD Radio) installed by a professional. Maybe even get a head unit with built-in GPS. Probably wouldn't be interested in this route if leasing the vehicle.

[Knightshade]

There is also an argument that for the extra dollars you are spending on the ML system, you can get a superior custom sound system (to include HD Radio) installed by a professional. Maybe even get a head unit with built-in GPS. Probably wouldn't be interested in this route if leasing the vehicle.

Except, you can't.

The ML only option is just $940. Given what is involved in replacing the factory head unit you're not going to get a superior custom installed system for anywhere -near- that cost, especially not one that does nav. Hell, you can pay more than $940 for -just- an aftermarket head unit with nav, no amps, no speakers, no custom install certainly.

To the previous poster- Yup, mine was a special order, not just for wanting ML without Nav but also for wanting the sports package (mine is an 08, and was still the first sports package car the dealership had ever seen).

My experience was excellent, because I was lucky enough to find a sales manager that appreciated I was basically walking in off the street with a suitcase of cash I wanted to hand to him in exchange for him filling out a couple of forms. Not all dealers are this reasonable abut special orders though, it's very much a YMMV thing.

[CrunchySkippy]

Except, you can't.

Agreed. My previous statement was a bit over-reaching with the headunit w/ GPS.

The ML only option is just $940. Given what is involved in replacing the factory head unit you're not going to get a superior custom installed system for anywhere -near- that cost, especially not one that does nav.

I was utilizing $1500 (based on the ML+NAV package at $4,000 compared to the NAV package at $2500). AND if I refocus my arguments to say:

Anyone who does not care if there's GPS stuck on the windshield (or dashboard) and the power supply dangling down CERTAINLY won't care if the sound system is professionally installed. $1500 should be able to purchase some pretty good equipment!

All joking aside, I hear what you're saying. I elected not to get the ML system, but you won't find me replacing the factory system.

[Knightshade]

I can happily report the flat area of the dash right above the center stack is perfect for a weight-mount Garmin GPS, and then the power cable goes straight down to the plug next to the ashtray, no clutter at all. Plus by using the weight mount it takes less than 30 seconds to install/remove it, if you want to put it away in the console, or move it to another vehicle (I take mine with me anytime I'm flying someplace where I'll have a rental for example)

BTW, the ML system itself (different head unit, different amps, different speakers) is really only $940 regardless of if you get nav or not... the extra $500 you get charged if you get Nav with ML is to swap the CD changer for a DVD changer... so I suppose technically if you REALLY care about DVD-A discs then the ML w/Nav option offers one other thing the aftermarket GPS won't.

[joeb427]

This from another Lexus forum on the Lexus Nav system

"yep the NAV looks nice and all but is very disappointing in its

functionality. Maps are freakin old and the user interface is crap. For

$2000+ extra I would think it would work as good as a garmin or similar

unit."

[SW03ES]

I have the Toyota nav in two cars and have been using it for nearly 5 years. I'm 100% satisfied and would never purchase another car without built in nav.

Sure aftermarket systems might have more functions, but I've never needed more functions and the sheer ugliness of aftermarket units in a brand new $40k car would keep me from ever considering it. I think the people who are complaining about the system are used to using portable and aftermarket systems. If you've never used one then you'll never miss any of the functionality.

I also see a BIG difference in value on the used market in cars without nav...

[Knightshade]

That's true. Cars with nav lose a lot more of their value than cars without nav.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2007-0...sale-usat_N.htm

I've used in-car nav. It's annoying that it costs 10 times as much yet does a lot less. I can't see any logic in that math.

Even worse when they charge 3-4 times as much for map updates too.

And if you don't see the value in real-time traffic info on your GPS (which aftermarket offers but OEM doesn't), well, you live in DC, I can't see HOW you don't understand the value of that unless you've never used it. It'll auto route you around accidents and other problems.

[joeb427]

I have the Toyota nav in two cars and have been using it for nearly 5 years. I'm 100% satisfied and would never purchase another car without built in nav.

Sure aftermarket systems might have more functions, but I've never needed more functions and the sheer ugliness of aftermarket units in a brand new $40k car would keep me from ever considering it. I think the people who are complaining about the system are used to using portable and aftermarket systems. If you've never used one then you'll never miss any of the functionality.

I also see a BIG difference in value on the used market in cars without nav...

NAV in my '06 was a over a$2K option.

Trade in value on my '06 with NAV is $500 more.So you lost over $1500 + tax and interest if financed and the NAV doesn't do what the Garmin Nuve 350 I have does.Let alone the ability to move from vehicle to vehicle.I'd bet 80% of people don't even use their built in NAV much.They just like the look.

It's more a status thing than function thing for most.

Another negative thing about factory NAV is the uipdate disc.I hear through Lexus it'ss over $250.

Garmin a $75 download.

[CrunchySkippy]

It's more a status thing than function thing for most.

Um...like driving a Lexus?

[joeb427]

It's more a status thing than function thing for most.

Um...like driving a Lexus?

Not really.

The 250 is the cheapest model.

Sort of like buying a C class Benz. :)

I bought it for the reliability and look not the so called Lexus status.

If I wanted status,I'd buy a more expensive Lexus model.

$35K is not big bucks for a vehicle today.

[tex2670]

It's more a status thing than function thing for most.

Um...like driving a Lexus?

Not really.

The 250 is the cheapest model.

Sort of like buying a C class Benz. :)

I bought it for the reliability and look not the so called Lexus status.

If I wanted status,I'd buy a more expensive Lexus model.

$35K is not big bucks for a vehicle today.

But SOME people buy a Lexus (any Lexus) or an MB (any MB) for status. And some don't.

And some people get factory nav for status. And some don't. Until a scientific poll is conducted, I don't think it's really fair to say "most" people buying factory nav do it for status. I didn't want dealing with a portable unit. I know you'll tell me it's no hassle, but just as I won't convince you factory is better, you won't convince me that the hassle of portable nav is no big deal.

[joeb427]

It's more a status thing than function thing for most.

Um...like driving a Lexus?

Not really.

The 250 is the cheapest model.

Sort of like buying a C class Benz. :)

I bought it for the reliability and look not the so called Lexus status.

If I wanted status,I'd buy a more expensive Lexus model.

$35K is not big bucks for a vehicle today.

But SOME people buy a Lexus (any Lexus) or an MB (any MB) for status. And some don't.

And some people get factory nav for status. And some don't. Until a scientific poll is conducted, I don't think it's really fair to say "most" people buying factory nav do it for status. I didn't want dealing with a portable unit. I know you'll tell me it's no hassle, but just as I won't convince you factory is better, you won't convince me that the hassle of portable nav is no big deal.

You won't see a scientific poll.You will see articles like the one above on how buying a manufacturers NAV(at this point anyway) is a bad investment.

Unless you're in sales or travel a lot,a $2500 NAV option is a waste but it looks nice.

You may use it often but according to articles I've read and seen on TV and people I know,most people rarely use NAV but it does look nice.

[Camski]

Ahem (add ML), DVD's anyone?

This guy is right, some people do buy it for status but less common is buying a Lex for status generally it's the German "Badge" that attracts buyers.

Well if you ask me the Nav. is worth it. It's just the convenience more than anything else added with the fact that comparing to some portable units it is also more accurate. Pair that with wheel tracking and you've got a setup that will work without satellite coverage.

Now i'm sure it's not just the Nav. either, bluetooth and the mentioned backup camera.

Let me mention the bluetooth however, how does one answer the call via the portable unit?

Steering wheel buttons are a LOT easier and safer. Also think about the Lexus market, with the IS in mind, think of all the "executives" with their Blackberry's - They probably wish it'd shut up.

Here in Australia, I'm the one that get's to point the finger and laugh at people that went and spent the same amount of AU$$ on a BMW 320i that got half what we got (engine size, reliabilty, features etc.).

Lastly, it's one of those things you won't rely on until you actually have it installed. So it's really up to you but I can almost assure you that if you get it installed you won't look back.

[joeb427]

Ahem (add ML), DVD's anyone?

This guy is right, some people do buy it for status but less common is buying a Lex for status generally it's the German "Badge" that attracts buyers.

Well if you ask me the Nav. is worth it. It's just the convenience more than anything else added with the fact that comparing to some portable units it is also more accurate. Pair that with wheel tracking and you've got a setup that will work without satellite coverage.

Now i'm sure it's not just the Nav. either, bluetooth and the mentioned backup camera.

Let me mention the bluetooth however, how does one answer the call via the portable unit?

Steering wheel buttons are a LOT easier and safer. Also think about the Lexus market, with the IS in mind, think of all the "executives" with their Blackberry's - They probably wish it'd shut up.

Here in Australia, I'm the one that get's to point the finger and laugh at people that went and spent the same amount of AU$$ on a BMW 320i that got half what we got (engine size, reliabilty, features etc.).

Lastly, it's one of those things you won't rely on until you actually have it installed. So it's really up to you but I can almost assure you that if you get it installed you won't look back.

You have made some very good points about NAV and BMW's..

Bluetooth is available on some Garmin models like the Nuvi 360.I have the 350 without Bluetooth.It would be much easier to answer a call on the steering wheel than on the portable unit unless somehow the call comes through automatically.

The backup camera and DVD are plusses too and the look of NAV is great also.I don't have factory NAV but do read posts on other Lexus forums on the shortcomings of the Lexus unit versus portable NAV units and at $2500 is a travesty along with a $250 update disc issue.My son in law has a '04 LX 470 with NAV,ML and backup camera.The unit isn't too good but it is now 4 years old.Newer units have to be be better functioning.

By the time I'm ready for a new car,NAV systems should much cheaper and even better.Then I'll pretty up my dash with a factory one.

[Knightshade]

Bluetooth is available on the aftermarket NAV units- They can even pipe your calls through the factory stereo system, so no real loss there.

DVD? It only works in park at a dead stop, unless you're willing to hack up the wiring and void your warranty. Likewise you have to be stopped to input a lot of things, while with an aftermarket unit your passenger can safely do this while in motion.

Which seems more useful? Being able to watch movies while the vehicle is in park, or being auto-routed around accidents and construction like an aftermarket unit can do? Some aftermarket units will also download realtime data on the cheapest price of gas near you, current weather conditions where you're traveling, and a lot more.

Oh, and there are aftermarket units that do dead reckoning too (working if you lose sat. signal)

Like I said, I've used built in nav. It SUCKS compared to a good aftermarket unit that's a lot cheaper and does a lot more... plus is cheaper to update, is portable between vehicles, and if even more new features the OEM unit can't ever do become available I can upgrade to a new unit for again massively less money than I'd have paid for the OEM unit.

I guess if you want to pay $2500 extra to get a less-functional unit that "looks" slightly nicer by being built in, well, that's your choice... but it's certainly not "better" in any objective sense.

[joeb427]

Bluetooth is available on the aftermarket NAV units- They can even pipe your calls through the factory stereo system, so no real loss there.

DVD? It only works in park at a dead stop, unless you're willing to hack up the wiring and void your warranty. Likewise you have to be stopped to input a lot of things, while with an aftermarket unit your passenger can safely do this while in motion.

Which seems more useful? Being able to watch movies while the vehicle is in park, or being auto-routed around accidents and construction like an aftermarket unit can do? Some aftermarket units will also download realtime data on the cheapest price of gas near you, current weather conditions where you're traveling, and a lot more.

Oh, and there are aftermarket units that do dead reckoning too (working if you lose sat. signal)

Like I said, I've used built in nav. It SUCKS compared to a good aftermarket unit that's a lot cheaper and does a lot more... plus is cheaper to update, is portable between vehicles, and if even more new features the OEM unit can't ever do become available I can upgrade to a new unit for again massively less money than I'd have paid for the OEM unit.

I guess if you want to pay $2500 extra to get a less-functional unit that "looks" slightly nicer by being built in, well, that's your choice... but it's certainly not "better" in any objective sense.

So true.

The only advantage of the Lexus unit is the backup camera which is nice but not a big deal to me.

[tex2670]

Bluetooth is available on the aftermarket NAV units- They can even pipe your calls through the factory stereo system, so no real loss there.

DVD? It only works in park at a dead stop, unless you're willing to hack up the wiring and void your warranty. Likewise you have to be stopped to input a lot of things, while with an aftermarket unit your passenger can safely do this while in motion.

Which seems more useful? Being able to watch movies while the vehicle is in park, or being auto-routed around accidents and construction like an aftermarket unit can do? Some aftermarket units will also download realtime data on the cheapest price of gas near you, current weather conditions where you're traveling, and a lot more.

Oh, and there are aftermarket units that do dead reckoning too (working if you lose sat. signal)

Like I said, I've used built in nav. It SUCKS compared to a good aftermarket unit that's a lot cheaper and does a lot more... plus is cheaper to update, is portable between vehicles, and if even more new features the OEM unit can't ever do become available I can upgrade to a new unit for again massively less money than I'd have paid for the OEM unit.

I guess if you want to pay $2500 extra to get a less-functional unit that "looks" slightly nicer by being built in, well, that's your choice... but it's certainly not "better" in any objective sense.

True that you don't have to hack the portables. You don't have to hack the Honda systems. I've used my Honda system on the go, and I really shouldn't. Type in an address while driving down the road (yes, I know, my passenger could do it--if I have one)--I've done it at 5mph, but I wouldn't want to do it a full speed. I cant imainge trying to type in on the small portable screen on the fly.

There's got to be a hundred threads on this--there will never be agreement.

Now, I take the entirely OPPOSITE view on factory rear entertainment systems. For the $1500, I could buy 2 separate portable DVDs--one for each kid, and still have $1300 left over.

[Knightshade]

I don't think I'd try typing into the unit at 75 mph while driving either. But when I'm using my GPS it's usually on a trip (be it a roadtrip in one of our cars, or a longer trip in a rental using my GPS) and so my wife is usually right next to me and she can type stuff in without any safety issue. If we had to come to a stop to do that it'd be a massive annoyance.

[terry993]

I have 10K miles on each of the Garmin 350 and my built in Lexus Nav. Garmin makes up for small screen size with better user interface and text to speech instructions. I am used to hearing my wife tell me where to turn :chairshot: and I prefer to not take my eyes off the road. If you want to see a really bad UI, try a MB with toggle switch to enter text :cries: or BMW with the round button that you press, turn and toggle for text only, no map Almost as bad as no Nav at all.

[tex2670]

I have 10K miles on each of the Garmin 350 and my built in Lexus Nav. Garmin makes up for small screen size with better user interface and text to speech instructions. I am used to hearing my wife tell me where to turn :chairshot: and I prefer to not take my eyes off the road. If you want to see a really bad UI, try a MB with toggle switch to enter text :cries: or BMW with the round button that you press, turn and toggle for text only, no map Almost as bad as no Nav at all.

I read the nav in the new MB C class is a huge improvement, and received rave reviews.

[SW03ES]

That's true. Cars with nav lose a lot more of their value than cars without nav.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2007-0...sale-usat_N.htm

I've read that article and disagree. I see a big difference in value on the used market in favor of the nav, meaning cars with nav sell for more.

And if you don't see the value in real-time traffic info on your GPS (which aftermarket offers but OEM doesn't), well, you live in DC, I can't see HOW you don't understand the value of that unless you've never used it. It'll auto route you around accidents and other problems.

I absolutely understand the value of it, and Lexus offers real time traffic in their systems just not on the IS. I've used the system with no real time traffic for years though, I don't really see it as a neccesity.

Like I said, I've used built in nav. It SUCKS compared to a good aftermarket unit that's a lot cheaper and does a lot more... plus is cheaper to update, is portable between vehicles, and if even more new features the OEM unit can't ever do become available I can upgrade to a new unit for again massively less money than I'd have paid for the OEM unit.

I've used the built in Lexus nav for many more years than you and I've used plenty of portable units. I would never spend one dollar on a portable unit, they hold absolutely no interest for me at all.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.