Mark Levison Dvd-audio & Issue W/ Rear Channels

[norcal hybrid]

I purchased an '07 RX 400h w/ the Nav/ML pkg two wks ago. The DVD-Audio does not process the rear channels correctly. Depending on the source mat'l it can be very audible. It is very evident on Marvin Gaye's "The Marvin Gaye Collection" (Motown B0001109-19, DVD-Audio), Track 3 "Ain't No Mountain High Enough". Tammi Terrell's vocals are located in the rear channels in the duet w/ very little of her vocals in the front (for echo/reverb). Without proper rear channel processing, it sounds like she's in an echo chamber with her voice severely attenuated. It is also evident on Richard Thompson's "Rumor and Sigh" (Capitol 72434-77932-9-5, DVD-Audio).

Over the weekend, I went back to the dealer to see if my vehicle was at fault or is it inherent in Lexus/Mark Levinson's design implementation of DVD-Audio. I got the same results on another '07 RX 400h and an '07 LS 460. It appears to be a design flaw but more analysis is required. My wife, son, his girlfriend & I all had the same observations. I tried adjusting the DSP & controls but to no avail. My wife has an '05 Acura RL w/ DVD-Audio and it sounds significantly better (functions as intended). I also have DVD-Audio in our home theater system and it also places the rear channel musical effects correctly.

Has anyone noticed similar issues when listening to DVD-Audio discs? I contacted Lexus and they stated no other customer has communicated a similar issue. They indicated they will look into it but who knows. The Nav/ML pkg costs $4130. For this amount of money, it is reasonable to expect that it function properly.

Welcome observations from others. I posted in the Hybrid forum but it appears to be endemic to "all" ML DVD-Audio designs.

Regards,

Norcal Hybrid

[RX400h]

I think the least you should do is register your concern about this with Lexus customer service. They may not be able to do anything right away, but perhaps future models will include a corrected sound system. I rip music to a CD and use it in the CD changer - no issues at all.

Dave

[norcal hybrid]

I think the least you should do is register your concern about this with Lexus customer service. They may not be able to do anything right away, but perhaps future models will include a corrected sound system. I rip music to a CD and use it in the CD changer - no issues at all.

Dave

Hi Dave,

I did contact Lexus Customer satisfaction. The ref# is 070701-000210 in case anybody else observes the same phenomenum. Lexus responded the case has been assigned to a dept specialist who is to get back in 3-5 biz days. I let the forum know of the outcome.

I searched the other forums and found two similar topics.

'07-RX350 Forum

bnmintx "Issues with Mark Levinson And DVD-audio" Jun 10 2007, 08:09 AM

Audio/Video/Electronics Forum

joetrav "Can The "dvd Changer" Play Audio"/"When you play a DVD-Audio disk....there are diff...." Dec 21 2006, 11:57 AM

Joetrav did not state his model. I don't know about other models but '07 was the first year the DVD-Audio was an option on the RX.

I initially got a std form letter response from Lexus. I called them (email was the first communication) and the 2nd response was much better. I do agree if more people contact them it can have more impact than one person. I did tell them that for $4130 for the Nav/ML Audio package there is a reasonable expectation that it function correctly. It should be cost independent but $$ do play in the equation.

I'm somewhat surprised only 3 folks have mentioned the problem in the forums. I do hope the percentage of people playing DVD-Audio discs is higher than 3 out of thousands. For those who haven't played DVD-Audio discs in their car, go buy 1 or 2 and check it out. The sound is truly incredible-and it will be even better when Lexus fixes the bug!!

Cheers,

Norcal Hybrid

[RX400h]

I should try one in my Harmon Kardon system at home. I have heard that the Blue Ray and HD DVD players produce audio that is superior to that of most DVD players.

As we all know, hindsight is 20/20; fortunately, this type of situation serves to remind us that we should try before we buy. Certainly, that is not always possible, but .......

Recently, I read a post from a Mazda 3 buyer who asked the salesperson if the CD player option would be able to play CDs that were recorded from MP3 tunes. The manager assured the buyer that it would do this. After buying the car, the owner found out that this wasn't the case. So, Norcal, I guess others have similar issues. Let's hope Lexus figures it out before long.

[norcal hybrid]

Hi Dave,

Don't want to get too much off point as this is a Lexus topic forum but a couple of things. Blu-Ray & HD DVD do not support the DVD-Audio std. Blu-Ray & HD-DVD support Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD Master Audio & DTS-HD High Resolution Audio. The Dolby & DTS formats support 96KHz/24-bit (I believe independent of the # of channels) but are proprietary formats that Dolby Laboratories & DTS license.

DVD-Audio can support up to 192KHz/24-bit in stereo and 96KHz/24-bit in multi-channel. Can the difference be heard between 192KHz & 96KHz sampling? My guess is no (not w/o some serious listening which who wants to do when driving) as pobably the bigger variable will be the quality of the source input (the disc itself and how it was mastered). I believe the std is open source as part of the MLP consortium. Similar to CD's Red Book Std.

BOTTOM LINE

1. HD DVD & Blu-Ray shouldn't be superior to DVD-Audio wrt sound quality.

They may sound as good but it will be years before they get into the cars if they ever do. If DVD-Audio is any indication, music companies will have a tough time selling high res audio. For reasons unknown to me, there's been no SACD player for cars. Don't wait till HD DVD or Blu-Ray for a high res audio fmt. You have it already in your car if you purchased the ML Audio pkg! I have about 60 DVD Audio discs. After listening to them, it's hard to step back to CDs or MP3s. I have an 8GB Ipod Nano which I love but it's convenience not superior sound that I want when I listen to it.

2. I don't believe DVD-Audio discs will play on any current HD DVD or Blu-Ray player.

There will be universal/combo HD DVD & Blu-Ray players in the next yr but these won't support DVD-Audio discs as well. Thus, you will need multiple DVD-type players in the house if you want high res DVD-Audio and/or SACD to go with your HD DVDs and/or Blu-Ray discs!!! Could be up to 4 players but there are combo DVD-Audio/SACD players (Denon, Yamaha). I'm waiting for the combo HD DVD/Blu-Ray player so I'll only need two players as I'm running out of space and processor & TV inputs. No wonder, folks are confused and have the opinion to sit on the sidelines till things get worked out. Count me in as not being an early adopter, not because I'm confused of the numerous formats but because they're constantly evolving. Just look at HDTV, too bad if you purchased an early HDTV that didn't have a DVI or HDMI input!

Take care,

Norcal Hybrid

I should try one in my Harmon Kardon system at home. I have heard that the Blue Ray and HD DVD players produce audio that is superior to that of most DVD players.

As we all know, hindsight is 20/20; fortunately, this type of situation serves to remind us that we should try before we buy. Certainly, that is not always possible, but .......

Recently, I read a post from a Mazda 3 buyer who asked the salesperson if the CD player option would be able to play CDs that were recorded from MP3 tunes. The manager assured the buyer that it would do this. After buying the car, the owner found out that this wasn't the case. So, Norcal, I guess others have similar issues. Let's hope Lexus figures it out before long.

[RX400h]

Norcal,

Wow! Thanks for the music info. It is related to Lexus in a sense, as your audio quality in one is in question. Regarding HDMI. My Plasma has it, but I don't use it since my 2 year-old DVD player doesn't have it. As a matter of fact, neither does my receiver! BTW, I believe LG currently has a DVD player that handles both Blue Ray and HD. Okay, it's time for me to stay on topic!

Dave

[norcal hybrid]

Hi Dave,

Thx. We'll make this the Lexus & High Res Audio/Video forum. I wasn't aware the LG player was out yet. That was the one I was referring to. CNET.com has a good review of it:

http://reviews.cnet.com/video-players-and-...?tag=prod.txt.1

LG has a snazzy web site as well: http://us.lge.com/superblu/

The LG BH100 looks like it's not yet ready for primetime. Usually, companies work the kinks out by the 2nd or 3rd generation. HD DVD & Blu-Ray players are on their 2nd gen. A combo player may require two more iterations. Having two players to support HD DVD/Blu-Ray & DVD-Audio/SACD/CD/mega DVD R-W fmts/MP3/... is pretty darn amazing.

I can wait for HD DVD & Blu-Ray. I have enough toys w/ HDTV, Tivo Series3 HD, a combo DVD-Audio/SACD player and a new RX 400h which is a great excuse to buy more DVD-Audio discs!! Unfortunately, it appears the DVD-Audio format may not last much longer so I have to snap them up before they go away. Fleetwood Mac's Rumours. Eagles Hotel California & Neil Young's Harvest DVD-Audio discs all went out of print. My wife took the originals for her Acura RL so I tried to buy them at Best Buy & Fry's. Amazon is out as well though I bought them thru the Amazon marketplace (similar to eBay's stores). Not a good sign if those classics LPs can't sell enough to keep the music companies interested. I wonder how long the auto companies will continue to offer the format in their new cars.

BTW, all 3 of those discs sound amazing...particularly Fleetwood Mac's Rumours. The Chain can give you goosebumps if you have a good sub.

Cheers,

Norcal Hybrid

Norcal,

Wow! Thanks for the music info. It is related to Lexus in a sense, as your audio quality in one is in question. Regarding HDMI. My Plasma has it, but I don't use it since my 2 year-old DVD player doesn't have it. As a matter of fact, neither does my receiver! BTW, I believe LG currently has a DVD player that handles both Blue Ray and HD. Okay, it's time for me to stay on topic!

Dave