Dealership Calls It "lurching"

[streetbird]

No, you are not supposed to put your car into park when you are stopped, that causes accidents. Say you are at a red light, you put the car in park, then you forget and the light turns green. You go to move but the car just revs and the person behind you slams into you thinking you were going to move. It make no sense what so ever that a car is not supposed to stay stopped when you foot is on the brake. That is the whole point of the brake.

[SW03ES]

But like I said before, the vehicle will move when its engaged in gear regardless of whether your foot is on the gas or not. The ES creeps probably 6-8MPH thats plenty fast to tear through the gate and cause the damage you showed here. If you relaxed your foot on the brake even for an instant, perhaps in anticipation of placing the car in park it could have moved forward at idle causing the damage we see here.

The car actually isn't designed to stay at a stop when the brake is pressed. We all drive that way but owners manuals and drivers handbooks all over say that the car should be moved out of gear when sitting at a stop.

Hindsight is always 20/20 and its perfectly human nature to both remember things with much more assurance than when they actually took place and to attribute fault to external forces. All I'm saying is its possible that what happened truly was an accident, and as long as that possibility is there you're not going to be able to make Lexus or the NHTSA do anything about it.

[electro992]

In reading posts like this before, its interesting to note that almost all of these incidents involve drivers that use their left foot to brake. Not that I'm pointing any fingers about fault, but that does leave your right foot to unconsciously touch the gas when you don't want it to. Just a thought.

[jragosta]

But like I said before, the vehicle will move when its engaged in gear regardless of whether your foot is on the gas or not. The ES creeps probably 6-8MPH thats plenty fast to tear through the gate and cause the damage you showed here. If you relaxed your foot on the brake even for an instant, perhaps in anticipation of placing the car in park it could have moved forward at idle causing the damage we see here.

The car actually isn't designed to stay at a stop when the brake is pressed. We all drive that way but owners manuals and drivers handbooks all over say that the car should be moved out of gear when sitting at a stop.

Hindsight is always 20/20 and its perfectly human nature to both remember things with much more assurance than when they actually took place and to attribute fault to external forces. All I'm saying is its possible that what happened truly was an accident, and as long as that possibility is there you're not going to be able to make Lexus or the NHTSA do anything about it.

There's also another possible cause.

Let's say that his memory IS 100% accurate. If the brakes failed for any reason (lack of maintenance, mechanical failure, phase of the moon, whatever), the car would seem to surge forward under those conditions. I don't consider this particularly likely, but I guess it's possible.

Bottom line is as I said before. This has been reported (rarely) on virtually every car ever made and no one has ever been able to duplicate it for a mechanic. That makes mechanical failure a very unlikely explanation.

[jragosta]

No, you are not supposed to put your car into park when you are stopped, that causes accidents. Say you are at a red light, you put the car in park, then you forget and the light turns green. You go to move but the car just revs and the person behind you slams into you thinking you were going to move.

Sorry, but if a person slams into me from behind under these circumstances, it's not my fault. The person behind shouldn't be moving until the way is clear.

[SW03ES]

No, you are not supposed to put your car into park when you are stopped, that causes accidents. Say you are at a red light, you put the car in park, then you forget and the light turns green. You go to move but the car just revs and the person behind you slams into you thinking you were going to move. It make no sense what so ever that a car is not supposed to stay stopped when you foot is on the brake. That is the whole point of the brake.

Thats how we all drive, but thats not how its "supposed" to be done. When sitting at a stop you're supposed to shift the car into neutral. All car manuals used to say that, I'm not sure if they still do or not.

[SW03ES]

Well it does appear that Lexus has removed the bit about putting the car out of gear when stopped with the engine running. The manual does however still have the same parking procedure I outlined before:

1. Bring the vehicle to a complete stop.

2. Depress the parking brake fully to securely apply the parking brake.

3. With the brake pedal held down with your foot, shift the selector into the "P" position

There it is, if you had applied the brake as Lexus described in the manual the accident may have been avoided. Thats a release from liability right there.

[pozilia]

Let's say that his memory IS 100% accurate. If the brakes failed for any reason (lack of maintenance, mechanical failure, phase of the moon, whatever), the car would seem to surge forward under those conditions. I don't consider this particularly likely, but I guess it's possible.

is it possible this lurching may be caused by the "Power-adjustable accelerator/brake pedals with memory" ??

streetbird, do you have this option on your car? is it possible to change the pedal settings while the pedals are pressed down?

also how bad is the lurching, does it feel like the car is just rolling on its own, or does it feel like someone pressed down on the gas pedal?

also, does your car have VSC? VSC should only retards throttle.. based on what I read, is that correct?

I am considering to purchase a 2005 ES330, however I am worried about this lurching forward problem. How bad is this problem, has many people experienced it, and is it controllable? If at red light or stop sign, I am afraid it can result in a very serious accident, either getting hit with a side impact or maybe hitting pedestrian.

[jragosta]

Let's say that his memory IS 100% accurate. If the brakes failed for any reason (lack of maintenance, mechanical failure, phase of the moon, whatever), the car would seem to surge forward under those conditions. I don't consider this particularly likely, but I guess it's possible.

is it possible this lurching may be caused by the "Power-adjustable accelerator/brake pedals with memory" ??

streetbird, do you have this option on your car? is it possible to change the pedal settings while the pedals are pressed down?

also how bad is the lurching, does it feel like the car is just rolling on its own, or does it feel like someone pressed down on the gas pedal?

also, does your car have VSC? VSC should only retards throttle.. based on what I read, is that correct?

I am considering to purchase a 2005 ES330, however I am worried about this lurching forward problem. How bad is this problem, has many people experienced it, and is it controllable? If at red light or stop sign, I am afraid it can result in a very serious accident, either getting hit with a side impact or maybe hitting pedestrian.

←

I wouldn't be too worried about this particular problem.

As I've stated before, it's very rare, but has been reported on virtually every car ever made. That makes it unlikely that it's a real defect in the vehicle itself.

NHTSA did a formal investigation and found no problem.

[SW03ES]

Like jrag said, don't be overly concerned about this problem. According to the independent investigation by the NHTSA they found that the accidents where the car was accused of accelerating unintentionally have all been deemed driver error. I think there were 6 reports filed with the NHTSA on the ES, which is not a lot compared to other models and not many at all when compared to the total # of ES on the road.

I would be more concerned about the e-throttle lag do some research on that, odds are you probbaly won't even feel that though, most owners don't.

[norbertk]

I've noticed this on my 1993 es300 as well. The only thing with that is, as soon as I feel that my car begins to lurch I just press the break harder and my RPM's rev to about 2000. This was due to my distributer cap problem which also related to my rough idle.

[SW03ES]

Thats probably a completely seperate issue...

[Lexlogic]

In August I went to park my car (2002 ES300) in my driveway when all of a sudden it picked up speed crashing through my brand new fence and side porch. It must be noted that I had my foot on the brake, the car was stopped and all of a sudden it took off on me. My foot never moved off the brake the whole time; the car came to a stop when it hit the porch. The day before I was driving with my mom and as I started to slow the car down b/c I was coming to a stop sign and the car all of a sudden picked up speed, but thankfully at that time I had time to press the brakes down harder and stop the car. When I park my car in the driveway it is only a couple of inches from the gate and from the gate it is about 2-3 feet to the porch so there was no way to avoid this accident.

When Lexus inspected the car they found nothing wrong with the DBW (electronic throttle control). I find this to be a coverup of some sorts b/c I've been driving for years and never had this happen to me before. I know first hand that is is not a driver error it is a manufactor's defect. I need to know if anyone else has had the same problem. I know it went into investigations and they are not recalling the cars b/c there was not ENOUGH evidence that this really happens. Since I've been bringing this issue to light I recently found out that the same thing happened to my husband's friend's wife last year. Her car took off on her and went through her garage.

Other problems with my 2002 Luxury vehicle is that the wood paneling on the console began to peel off, my steering wheel wood changed to a dull purple and about 2 weeks before the accident my back window on the drivers side stopped working. Is this the standard for Lexus???? The dealership and manufacturer are not taking any responsiblity so I want to hear from other owners if they have had the same problem so maybe it can be brought back into investigations. This dangerous problem is ovbiously not going away.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Just want you to know that this incident happen on a 2002 Lexus last 2004. After 5 years a 2007 Lexus had a Click herenintentional Acceleration

[Lexlogic]

In August I went to park my car (2002 ES300) in my driveway when all of a sudden it picked up speed crashing through my brand new fence and side porch. It must be noted that I had my foot on the brake, the car was stopped and all of a sudden it took off on me. My foot never moved off the brake the whole time; the car came to a stop when it hit the porch. The day before I was driving with my mom and as I started to slow the car down b/c I was coming to a stop sign and the car all of a sudden picked up speed, but thankfully at that time I had time to press the brakes down harder and stop the car. When I park my car in the driveway it is only a couple of inches from the gate and from the gate it is about 2-3 feet to the porch so there was no way to avoid this accident.

When Lexus inspected the car they found nothing wrong with the DBW (electronic throttle control). I find this to be a coverup of some sorts b/c I've been driving for years and never had this happen to me before. I know first hand that is is not a driver error it is a manufactor's defect. I need to know if anyone else has had the same problem. I know it went into investigations and they are not recalling the cars b/c there was not ENOUGH evidence that this really happens. Since I've been bringing this issue to light I recently found out that the same thing happened to my husband's friend's wife last year. Her car took off on her and went through her garage.

Other problems with my 2002 Luxury vehicle is that the wood paneling on the console began to peel off, my steering wheel wood changed to a dull purple and about 2 weeks before the accident my back window on the drivers side stopped working. Is this the standard for Lexus???? The dealership and manufacturer are not taking any responsiblity so I want to hear from other owners if they have had the same problem so maybe it can be brought back into investigations. This dangerous problem is ovbiously not going away.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Just want you to know that this incident happen on a 2002 Lexus last 2004. After 5 years a 2007 Lexus had a Click here Intentional Acceleration