SmilingBoognish

We've been getting about 21mpg (calculated by dividing miles by gallons at fill up) in the bay area, with most of that being on the freeway on our AWD RX350. The reason we went with AWD is because the law in this state says that if you don't have it, you have to chain up in R1 conditions and, like you, enjoy winter time trips to Tahoe. I'm not sure how well this vehicle will do in the snow with the stock tires and questionable AWD system, but I'll update with my opinion next winter!

I intend to mark my tires for the complimentary first service, and check them before leaving the lot. It's unfortunate that you had such a lousy experience. Lexus has built a reputation for customer service which, unfortunately, did not shine through on my purchase experience.

The more important one is that you have now been CONNED into believing you need to have your car serviced every 5,000 miles even though the factory says otherwise. According to Porsche the oil/filter change for my '01 911/996 is at 15,000 miles.

Your 911 motor has about 4X the amount of oil in it than the RX350 motor. That goes a long way to explaining the extended drain intervals.

You can register here:

http://forums.lexushelp.com/local_links.php?catid=47

And download all the TSB's - one a day for free or you can pay them to have unlimited downloads.

How fast can I accelerate on a "known" slippery surface...just what does that go to proving...??

traction.

I'm done trying to entertain any rational discussion on this topic. I think anyone who is reading this has enough information to make an intelligent choice. Good luck out there.

:( After 23 posts and you are calling people Idiots??? You are the total idiot period!!!!!!! :chairshot:

Looks like a duck, walks like a duck and talks like a duck...

At least I'm not posting patently false information.

Um, the "world" has been convinced. Quit being an idiot. Here's an ice rink test done by one of the sponsors of this site:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=80

If you want to believe that the world is flat, that the Easter Bunny hides eggs for you and that drilled brake rotors are better in the rain than vented rotors, that is your business. It really doesn't affect anyone else. But advocating the use of summer tires in winter conditions is dangerous and irresponsible. We all have to share the road with you. I don't give two shiny shytes about proving anything. What I do care about is someone believing your drivel and consequently crashing into an innocent driver.

Maybe someone else knows better than I, but the only way I could tell when I was looking at used RX's was to look under the rear bumper to see if it had a rear diff.

Stay away from Jiffy Lube places. They employee young kids, and don't do a great job screening them. They are notorious for not changing filters, forgetting important stuff like putting your drain plug back in and trying to sell you services that you do not need.

If I don't have time to do oil changes myself, I take our vehicles to the local gas station mechanic. His name is Mike, and I trust him to use a new oil filter (I've checked his work in the past) and he charges a reasonable $30 vs. the unreasonable $90 that Lexus would charge.

"It's a fact..."

Facts are almost always printed in hardcopy somewhere but try as I might I cannot find any references that indicate that summer tires are any less capable of remaining "soft" than are winter specialty tires.

Granted, there is lots of documentation indicating that many winter tires have specially formulated rubber compounds so as to keep their grip in COLD weather. But where does it say that those special rubber formulations are not used in "summer use only" tires...???

And I see NOTHING in the links you supplied that refutes my overall position.

The links I provided talked about the snowflake emblem and that in order for a tire to have it, it must past certain performance tasks which prove they meet certain minimum criteria for winter traction. Why you continue to post this opinion of yours that summer tires are just fine in packed snow and ice conditions is beyond me and actually dangerous to anyone stupid enough to believe you.

Evidently, figuring out that summer tires get hard in the cold is pretty tough. Here are the first four hits I got from a google search:

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/ti...n-the-cold-406/

Summer tires are out of their element when it gets cold and slippery and shouldn't be driven on ice or snow because they are designed for dry and wet conditions. Their performance rubber compounds are stiff in cold temperatures, and their treads lack the slits, called sipes, that bite into snow.

http://www.moderntiredealer.com/t_inside.c...312&pgNum=2

This compound's makeup will likely tend to become "harder" (the rubber will tend to become more like plastic) when exposed to temperatures below 32 degrees F, which detracts from tractional properties. Winter tires utilize special compounds that remain pliable in cold temperatures.

http://www.dailypilot.com/articles/2008/04...71918167798.txt

Keeping it simple, the basic thing to know, according to Vandewater, is that summer and winter tires are specifically built for those seasons, temperatures and driving surfaces. All-season tires, on the other hand, are a compromise between both since the properties of a good summer tire and a good winter tire contradict each other in nearly every aspect, from tread design and softness of the compound (which used to be made of rubber but is now a blend of synthetic ingredients) to sidewall construction.

http://www.freshalloy.com/site/features/te.../001/home.shtml

If you use a summer tire with its specially designed compound in the winter, the compound makes the tire very hard and it won't conform as well to the road conditions.

To try and take this thread back to some semblance of it's original intent, I'll sum and say don't let the AWD system be the deciding factor between a hybrid or non-hybrid. Tires are much more important.

Assuming tire manufacturers have a rubber formulation that allows winter "specialty" tires to remain "soft" in cold weather what makes you of the mind that the same formulation would not be used for summer ONLY tires..??

Oh, when was the last time you saw a winter specialty tire tested other than on the "loose" stuff, or up against a "summer use" only tire on packed snow or ice..??

The formulation of both the tread and sidewall is different in summer tires vs. winter tires. It's a fact, and if you choose not to believe it, that is your business. But for the sake of everyone around you, I hope that you do chain up at the slightest hint of a snow flurry. I can guarantee you that appropriate tires on packed snow and ice are superior and safer than summer specific tires. I have seen it, and independent organizations test it.

http://www.canadiandriver.com/winter/tires/snow_tires.htm

http://www.tripcheck.com/Pages/RCMap.asp?m...v=TractionTires

So far we've achieved a best of 23, which was all highway, with the exception of cutting through SF on the way to the bridge, and a worst of 19 which was almost all city driving. I've been pretty impressed with the highway mileage, given the weight and tall profile of the vehicle. City mileage is as we expected. All in all, it ain't bad for throwing a brick in the wind with 270 hp.

I wouldn't consider anything other than plain old vented rotors for an RX. Slotted rotors are beneficial on a track, but they will eat your streetable brake pads a bit faster than necessary on the street.

Cross drilled rotors are just bling. Yes, new Porsche's have cross-drilled rotors. However, if you talk to anyone who regularly tracks their Porsche, they upgrade to slotted or sometimes solid rotors after the factory rotors crack.

Here in the Puget sound area we often have, encounter, the RAIN situation.

My 78 911 does not have drilled or slotted rotors and I have had instances of sliding almost into an intersection as a result. My '01 911 does have drilled rotors and I haven't notice any such problem.

I'd be willing to bet bet you a beer that the difference you are experiencing has more to do with your tires and brake pad material than it does with your rotors. ;)

I am also of the opinion that since my summer tires have more tread contact area than almost any, if not all, specialty "winter" tires they actually give me better performance on ice or packed snow. IMMHO winter specialty tires are only advantagous if the surface "stuff" is loose enough for tread "bite".

You must be talking about all-season tires, not summer tires. Summer tires turn to hockey pucks somewhere around 35-40F and are insanely dangerous in any type of winter conditions. Having driven the same vehicle in snow on different tires, I can assure you that winter specific tires are vastly superior to all-seasons in ice and packed snow. It has more to do with the tire compound than actual tread pattern, but the effectiveness is both real and profound.

I've always worried over the years about how many naugas they had to kill to make Naugahyde.

Dude. unlike other animals, which must typically be slaughtered to obtain their hides, Naugas can shed their skin without harm to themselves. :D

I've used Lexol cleaner in the past with success on my leather/pleather seats, and only used the Lexol conditioner on the leather. However, I've never had to park my cars outdoors, and I'm sure some amount of UV gets through the glass in our vehicles, so I'm not sure how that would work if you had to park in the sun every day.

Even back when we had Jeeps, an '85 and then a '92, I never hesitated to chain up if the going got rough. By rough I'm talking snow, packed snow, and ice.

Remember that you're not the only driver out there, far from it, amd the clear majority of other drivers are sheer idiots (mostly coupled with FWD or F/AWD) when it comes to driving on the slippery stuff.

Oh, I probably wouldn't chain up either on "powder days", but what we get around here mostly is something we refer to as Pacific Boiler-plate.

Thanks for the response. My Subaru had proper winter tires, with the snowflake emblem, and in my experience they stopped and turned better than all-seasons (M+S stamp) with chains. I will definitely be looking into a second set of wheels to wear winter tires on the Lexus, as well. Just for clarification, when it snows in the Sierras, CalTrans is right there scraping the roads and folks are busy driving on them. It gets packed and icy pretty quickly, and you the biggest danger is the person in their SUV who has never driven on snow before plowing into you. That is precisely why I spend the extra dough on proper tires - it increases my chances that I can maneuver out of the way of such an idiot.

In a few months your tire pressure warning light will come on and you can play 5 way roulette to find the low tire. My son has an 07 RX-350, my wife an 08 RX-350. Both have the same annoying problem. I suppose that any car with a TPMS would have this, but on a $40 - 50 K car I would expect it to tell you which tire is low - especially with such a sensitive TPMS.

Steve

No offense, but you should check your cold tire pressures *at least* once a month with, or without a tire pressure monitoring system. Particularly if you're rolling around in a 4,000+ pound vehicle.

I drove both the 400h and the 350. I found the 400h to have an annoying vibration and it wasn't as smooth as the as the non-hybrid. I didn't buy a vehicle this big for it's gas mileage and it is primarily a highway cruiser for us so the hybrid wouldn't have helped much, anyway.

WWest,

What has been your real world experience with your RX in slippery conditions? If I've got to chain up I'm going to be livid! My previous snow experience has been with Subaru's, which I've never had to chain up in 8 years of Tahoe powder days.

The MDX is better handling and is more "masculine" but casts a bigger shadow and has worse mileage. The RX has slightly wishy-washy handling but goes where you point it and gets decent highway mileage with excellent comfort.

My wife and I test drove both, and I personally think both vehicles handle very poorly, but as expected: like a Camry with a 600 pound box strapped to the top! However, handling is a very subjective thing, so I'll leave it at that. :)

I have an '07 -350 and an '03 MDX. The MDX is excellent and I find it more comfortable than the RX. Don't pass up a test drive in the MDX, you'll be impressed.

Interesting!

Definitely drive both vehicles. We found the RX seemed nicer and more comfortable, but again, that is very subjective. If I lived somewhere that got a lot of snow, I'd probably have leaned towards the MDX as it has a much better all wheel drive system. We use our AWD occasionally for trips to Tahoe and I think it will be ok, but if I had to live in the snow I'm not sure I would chance it.

The vehicle we purchased does not have the Levinson audio, air suspension, adaptive cruise control or rear DVD. I think it's got everything else. I guess I don't have a lot to comment on in that department...the back up camera integrated with the Nav is nice for making sure there are no kids playing behind the vehicle when backing it up, and has proven useful in parallel parking. I like the stock stereo just fine, although it seems that others do not. We've really enjoyed the driver's pre-set function and heated seats.

Happy hunting!

Gotcha! It's funny, my wife really wanted the Nav package for the back up camera, as well. The vehicle was purchased because she loved the smooth ride and quietness of the thing...a driver's vehicle it is not! I'm saving up for a noisy, raucous beast myself. ;)

Junxus,

There is no need to shout. With all due respect, it sounds like you didn't research your purchase very well. Most of the things you are complaining about are easily researched such as the features of the GPS system, the warranty coverage and the type of AWD system. If that stuff was important to you, you should have weighed that in your decision before making the purchase.

The service manager at the Lexus dealer told me that the 08 RX350 goes 100K on transmission oil. Starting in 08 the oil used is full synthetic. Same for the other fluids - except engine oil of course.

Much thanks!

I actually stumbled upon a Lexus TSB at lexushelp.com (TC008-07) which says, in part:

100,000 Maintenance Interval — Inspection only; ATF-WS does NOT require any

flushing or changing during the life of the vehicle.

The use of Genuine Toyota ATF-WS is recommended.

The use of additives or aftermarket fluids that are considered compatible

or substitutes may result in shift concerns and damage to the internal

transmission components.

ATF-WS is NOT compatible with T-IV or Dexron ATF.

Amazing!

Sorry to bump an old thread, but I thought it might be interesting to note that I get the exact same sensation of down shifting in my wife's '98 Camry. It is barely noticeable in either vehicle, but noticeable nonetheless and slightly more so on the RX.

When shopping for a new snow vehicle for our family of one kid and one smallish dog, we drove the MDX and Subaru Outback XT.

The MDX did not feel as comfortable and had a bit more body roll than the RX. It felt bigger than the Lexus (it is), but I much preferred the Acura all wheel drive system to the Lexus set up. The gas mileage was also a bit worse than the Lexus.

The Outback was a smaller vehicle, and as a result it was much faster/responsive and much better at cornering, although it had quite a lot of body roll compared to vehicles I've driven in the past. The visibility was also superior to either of the taller SUV's. Like the Acura, I preferred the Subaru all wheel drive system to the Lexus. Hopefully I'm not in the market for a new set of RX wheels with winter tires next season for Tahoe trips...we'll see how the fancy electronics do as a substitute for real differentials!

In the end we went with the Lexus because it was the most comfortable, but I'm pretty sure I'd be happy with any of these vehicles from a utilitarian and reliability stand point. The reliability is why we didn't bother test driving German utility vehicles, and the comfort is why we strayed away from most others...

Go wherever is cheapest that you feel OK doing the list of things you want done ... NO REASON to use Lexus imho.

Totally agree....no reason to pay big $$'s for a oil change. I remember awhile back I had my 05 RX330 in for warped rotors (covered under warranty) and asked Lexus to rotate my tires. They wanted to charge me something like $80 bucks....just to rotate the tires. I went to my local Firestone and they did it for me for $15.

Wow! There is absolutely NO additional work required to rotate tires when you've already got them off to turn the brake rotors.

Edit: I suppose there is a little additional work if you rotate the spare as per the owner's manual. But $80 to remove and re-install a spare?!?

To find out if your vehicle will work with lower octane fuels:

Run your vehicle down to 1/8 th of a tank.

Fill up with 5 gallons of mid-grade (89 octane in my area).

Drive normally. If you feel any knocking or pinging, IMMEDIATELY top the rest of the tank with premium (91 octane in my area).

If no knocking or pinging occurs, your good to drive on that octane level.

If you can actually hear a Lexus motor pinging through all the sound deadening material, you have already done significant damage. Modern engines, as alluded to above, are required by law to function on 87 octane. This is done by the ECU sensing knock and retarding timing. Read that again, the ECU has to "sense knock" before it makes any adjustment to timing in order for pre-ignition to be avoided. I plan on keeping my vehicle well past the warranty, and I'll gladly put the proper octane in my tank that the engineers intended. Bad things happen to engines running on lower octane than they were designed to for...this thread makes me glad I got a good deal on a new one rather than buying used.