thelazydogsback

Okay, reading about hypermiling and people turning off their engines downhill (not a good idea...) got me to wanting to ask this again...

So, the question I have is: why are the only cars that shut off their ICE's on-demand currently hybrid cars?

It seems like a no-brainer to have only cars with ICE's turn off their engines when not needed - whether at a full stop or coasting. Yes, you need a special starter/engine configuration, but you would avoid the cost, weight and environmental footprint of the battery all-together. Sure, w/o a elec. motor to take the slack, there'd be more of a stating delay, but the ICE in the 400h starts up pretty darn quickly, and if you in a performance frame of mind one could always disable the on-demand mode.

There is more too it than that. With the Synergy system accessories like steering, braking, (as well as A/C)

are electric. Coasting with the engine off in a non-hybrid car is dangerous.

/Steve

Sure, but one would that that not having to provide energy for moving the car but just to support steering, etc., pumps that a much smaller secondary (if not beefier primary) batter could be used charged of the alternator when the ICE is running. (No elec. motors, no regen braking, smaller sec. batt.)

At least under stop/go city traffic this seems like it would be woth it - but maybe you're right, could be a slippery-slope toward a full hybrid. Still, avoiding the cost of an electric drivetrain while having an engine that could shut off seems worthwhile. But you must be right, as one would think that automakers would have gone in this direction.

Okay, reading about hypermiling and people turning off their engines downhill (not a good idea...) got me to wanting to ask this again...

So, the question I have is: why are the only cars that shut off their ICE's on-demand currently hybrid cars?

It seems like a no-brainer to have only cars with ICE's turn off their engines when not needed - whether at a full stop or coasting. Yes, you need a special starter/engine configuration, but you would avoid the cost, weight and environmental footprint of the battery all-together. Sure, w/o a elec. motor to take the slack, there'd be more of a stating delay, but the ICE in the 400h starts up pretty darn quickly, and if you in a performance frame of mind one could always disable the on-demand mode.

> You do sound unhappy about a lot of things on the RX that I would have thought you would have noticed before you bought one

I disagree. (I had a similar diatribe on here after I bought mine.)

I *drove* the car several times - I certainly didn't have the inclination or time to play with the nav unit -- I assumed (and was also assured by the Lexus staff) that the nav unit was up-to-snuff.

I don't care how old the RX model line is, there is simply no excuse for that unit as it is to *ever have shipped with any car*, never mind on an expensive cutting-edge vehicle.

The voice reco *is* horrible -- and I'm not talking about the accuracy of the reco, but even it's whole rasion d'etre, as even if it performed perfectly, it adds little value as it is designed.

Ignoring all the other problems of the nav unit, the thing that makes it most usless is that I only get about a 50% hit with any destination:

- Entering an address often results in "That address does not exist". Really?

- Address entering (umlike a Garmin, etc.) doesn't use the current position to prioritize address entry -- so you end up seeing crap for many miles that isn't necessary

- AFAIKT, the POI list is about 10 years old, or only includes things like gas stations, which I couldn't care less about.

I end up using Telenav on my Blackberry, which is always seems bizzare with an in-dash nav.

They should at least install the head into a standard-double bay so I can replace the damn thing if I want to...

But otherwise, the car has been great. (Ok - adjustable suspension would be nice :))

mike

Well, I've had my RX400h about 9 months now and I have to say, I am unlikely to buy another Lexus (or Toyota). I guess I was spoiled by BMW's thoughtful engineering, and the Lexus just has too many stupid design decisions for me to overlook.

My list (not in any particular order):

• - The GPS is a TRAINWRECK. I have had GPS since 1997 in most of my cars. Had I known how bad the GPS is on the Lexus, I would have bought a Ford Hybrid Escape. The list is long:
  • - Can't Enter Address Use While Driving. This is just plain idiotic. But I think everyone agrees on this point. My BMW and Honda both work normally. But hey, I can POINT TO A LOCATION by scrolling the map while driving (oh, that's a good way to keep your eyes on the road!). Thanks, lawyers and lousy Lexus UI engineers.
    

• - The Voice Recognition only works in the driveway. Well, maybe at speeds that cause no road noise. Above that, forget it. I end up screaming a string of obscenities at the car. And it can't recognize my home town at all ("San Jose"). No, I don't have a strange accent. But I have tried a Japanese accent...no luck. The Honda is MUCH better.
  

• - Stupid restrictions on which screen you can use voice recognition commands. You want to "Go Home" but you're on the wrong screen? Well, the unit will recognize "Go Home" (after 2-3 tries) but then tells you "Not Available on this Screen". Seriously? Was it not clear what I wanted to do? Unbelievably stupid UI design. The same if I want to enter an address but I am on the Energy screen. So how is this safer? I need to push a bunch of buttons just to do what it ALREADY HAS RECOGNIZED that I want to do. My Honda doesn't do this. "Go Home" works everywhere.
  

• - Really dumb algorithm for calculating arrival time. OK, so you FINALLY got the address in to the unit after pulling over on a dangerous shoulder to satisfy the lawyers. Now, the GPS blindly uses whatever speeds you've programmed into the unit for highway, local road, etc. Even my 10 year old BMW did a better job than this by looking at average speeds. And I am amazed at how well the Honda does (and I don't know how it does it, don't care.)
  

• - No 3D View. OK, this is just jealousy of the Acura and BMW GPSes. But Lexus is in the same class of product, it should be just as good.
  

• - The Overall Console Interface. By this I mean both the LCD screen and the small LCD on the radio. Want to see a song title or artist? Well, you're not allowed on the big screen while you are moving. But by pushing multiple buttons on the lower screen, you can! Does this make ANY sense? If the idea is to keep my eyes on the road, why allow it at all? This type of arbitrary design is EVERYWHERE (especially with the GPS, see below). My Honda let's me see the song name and title while driving.
  There are MULTIPLE examples of where actions are arbitrarily allowed while driving while others are forbidden. There appears to be little rhyme or reason. Get a clue Lexus, I am an adult and it is not your responsibility to prevent me from using what I paid for.
  

• - I like the fact you can play MP3/WMA CDs, but why not MP3 DVDs? You have DVD read capability, this is just software. But as long as we're talking MP3s...
  

• - No iPod interface or HDD based player? Really? It's 2008 guys! I long for the capabilities in those cheapo Fords I see in commercials ("play artist 'Strokes'"). It's just sad leading edge technology is not in this car.
  

• - $500 to install XM? Really? It was FREE in my Honda (which was $20K less).
  

• - The mileage is not as high as the EPA mileage. If I drive perfectly I can get around 25. Usually it is around 22.5. Nothing like the 30+ you advertise for city driving. And pretty much everyone I have spoken to who has a RX400h agrees.
  

• - The headlights are horrible in extremely dark conditions. I was on highway 80 west of Truckee California and was SHOCKED at how bad the lights are in pitch black conditions. The beams seem to die instantly about 150 feet out. No rolloff, they just die. I mentioned this to the dealer at the 5000 mile checkup and the service person said "yeah, customers have been complaining about that for years." Really? Lexus, are you listening?
  

I have more annoyances that are minor, like the dumb knee-bashing placement of the left cup holder near the door (though it was nice to find it, 3 months after I had the car :)). But I think I'll stop here.

I had high hopes for the RX400h when I first got it, but the annoyances are so many that I can honestly say I will never buy another Lexus. As soon as there is a hybrid (or hydrogen!) BMW small SUV, the RX is going away...

You do sound unhappy about a lot of things on the RX that I would have thought you would have noticed before you bought one, but the good news is the resale value of your Lexus RX 400h should be real high as hybrids are in demand and short in supply where as other SUV's are severly depressed in the market. Bet you could sell it and make a great deal on a gas guzzling BMW SUV.

As for not getting the mileage the sticker said I do better on the highway side on my 08 RX400h, if I drive carefully I can get around 32.6 MPG I average around 28.4 MPG city and highway combined about 50/50.

As for the nav system, I agree, I have a 07 Acura MDX and the Lexus nav system is a joke in comparison, but I added the Coastaltech Lockpick 3 basic and it allows me to input destinations while moving, look for POI's ect., and for only $99 and it only took 5 min to install. The lockpick really improves the functionality to a point where I am not totally happy with the Lexus system, but it is now quite usable while driving. Oh and while I like my Acura the gas mileage sucks compared with my Lexus RX400h.

One other point, the cup holder you mentioned, wow you must have long legs to have a problem, that it is up past the centerline of the steering column and up against the door, dont know what else they could have done other than not put one there at all.

I think you have to consider the Lexus is a 5 yr old design that will probably be improved when the new model comes out next year, but I doubt the nav system will be improved, except again the Lockpick is well worth the money if you plan on keeping your current RX very long.

I beleive there's a little pushbutton on the left front around hip-level -- check under the area of the gas-tank door release...

You guys all got to *choose* your color?

AFAICT, as soon as they arrive off the boat in Seattle, you take what they tell you they have <_<

My '07 has the blue tag as well.

It looks great with the mica body -- I'm trying to figure out how I can add more blue somewhere else...

I don't notice ICE transition at at when under speed -- if you can feel it then, I'd say something is amiss.

At a standstill when the ICE comes on to keep things warm, sometimes there is a small jolt, when can be disconcerting if my foot is only lightly on the brake (just enough to stop the car from rolling on a flat surface, but not fully depressed) as the car can jump. Although it's only a few mm, it's disconcerting nonetheless.

On a related note, I've noticed that unless I fully depress the break, the energy indicator shows the it's running the front elec motor from the batts, even though the car isn't moving - fully depressing the brake will stop this process.

mike

The noise and clunk I get during the transition from electric to gas seems to be getting worse. It's noticeable during both hard and light acceleration.

I drove a friend's 600h recently and there was zero noise. It was silky smooth and the transition was hardly noticeable. Now, I realize that it's double the price, however, isn't it essentially the same system? Shouldn't my vehicle be as smooth and as quiet?

I made an appointment with the dealer next week. My service advisor said that it seemed normal, but they would take a look at it, of course.

I'd like to hear from other 400h owners about this since I have no basis for comparison. Is it normal? Am I being paranoid?

No s@#t! When I first opened the rear window(s), I thought I had just missed the last chopper leaving Saigon... -- it's pretty much intolerable.

One of a long list of things that I'm surprised Lexus let out of the factory. (Luckily, the whole drivetrain and all is pretty sweet - they just need an electronics and body redesign :))

You'll have to crack the front window on the same side to get it to stop...

Another great window feature is that if it's been raining, the roof-line and door are expertly desinged to have all the standing/running water fall into the car when the windows are opened, forming a nice pool in the seat :)

I thought buying rain-gutters would fix this and possibly help the wind problem, but (a) the roof-line is way to far inside of the car for the gutters to do anything, and (B) although the gutters fit like a glove, the too-smart electric windows rolled back down when they reached the top after they are installed. I asked a tech, and he said he didn't think you could adjust the point-of-no-return point of the auto-rollback -- it's less than a baby-pinky-width from being rolled up, so I don't see the harm...

While traveling at about 40mph on a local road, I opened the passenger side rear window by mistake. The result was a pressure change in the cabin that caused a rapid thumping noise/sensation that was actually painful in my wife's and my ears. It was similar in some ways to pressure changes while flying in a light aircraft. I thought it might be a seat belt being whipped around by the wind stream, but nothing in the back was moving. With both rear windows down, it got worse. I've experienced wind noise from rear windows, but never anything like this. In my opinoin, and that of my wife, the RX400h is undriveable with the rear windows down. Lucky we never have them down. It rides like a dream all closed up, smooth and quiet. Front windows cause no problem.

Anybody else have a similar experience with the airflow over the car.

Stu

I love my new 2008 400h as far as the auto itself goes - but voice interface is embarrassingly bad - I really don't see how a company like Lexus could let the system roll off the line for a $50,000 automobile.

Voice dialog, what should be a one-click operation, takes so many delays, button presses, and confirmations that it's virtually useless, and the name dialing isn't even speaker-independent but is template-based and must be trained per-item. Dialog with the verbose female prompt is so bad, it sounds like a pardody of a 'bot from a bad BBC space-comedy.

The advise of the resident Lexus tech. specialist is to simply not use the feature and rely on position-dependent speed-dials. (Remeber those boxes from the '70s??)

So, okay, the system is pretty bad -- but I should just be able to click on the voice button and instead have it initiate the great voice-dialing that my phone (blackberry pearl - speaker-independent and updated over-the-air from my exchange server) already has, right?

(Just as any $40 bluetooth headset could do.) Hmm- no, can't seem to find an option for voice bypass to the phone.

Not only can voice dialing not be initiated from the car, but if I initiate voice-dialing from the phone, the phone recieves input from neither the 400h's mic., nor the blackberry mic. which is now shunted by the bluetooth connection.

I miss the voice prompting (TTS street names, etc.), great rendering and sensible features that my Garmin Nuvi nav. had as well, but I can live with a worse nav. - but really, I think I should be able to dial my phone for $50,000.

Anyone please have a solution for this??

thanks!!