Creaking Sound From Ls400 Front Brakes - Ideas?

[Big Iron]

The front brakes of my 1999 LS400 have begun making a creaking sound, similar to an old garage door spring, when I depress the pedal. With the vehicle parked but running I had someone depress the pedal, and I was able to confirm it's coming from the caliper area on both sides. The sound is much fainter with the engine off. The vehicle stops the same as it always has. The dealership measured the front brake lining as being 6mm or greater 4,000 miles ago.

Any ideas? I appreciate the help!

[VBdenny]

As brakes wear, the pad linings become harder and the rotor becomes smoother. Creaking is a symptom of parts not being new. Most people included our beloved Lexus service techs are terrible at cleaning and lubricating the caliper slide pins. Others leave off the Shim pads and wishbone springs, seen both.

Of course I have zero trust in Lexus dealership service departments. Find a Toyota dealership NOT owned by the same people that own your Lexus dealership and take it there for service. You might find the best way to solve the braking issue is just to replace the pads, and have the rotors either turned or replaced. Calipers hardly ever go bad except failing to lubricate the slide pins which can cause them to hang up. A common Nissan 50,000 mile issue. One of the benefits of replacing pads at half-life is less wear on the rotors and smoother braking. Letting pads go to the end of their life causes the caliper boots to expand all the way out increasing the possibility that they will hang up when retracted.

Not sure of weather in Oregon but I think there is a lot of moisture there which also contributes to creaking as a light coating of rust can form on the rotors after being wet.

Hope this helps some

Denny

[Big Iron]

Thanks for the reply. My first guess was a lubrication issue as well, as it sounds like a metal spring losing shape. I've never looked at the brakes on these, so I have no idea what might be flexing in there to make the creaking sound. Can you think of anything I might check or lubricate, before a front brake job? Any idea what the OEM components for a front brake job run?

[landar]

Joe, my guess is that it is the slide pins 'creaking' as they move inward. A chattering as they move. But it could also be the pads as well. As you might imagine, there is a tremendous amount of pressure exerted on the pads/calipers as the brakes are pressed. The reason your noise is 'fainter' with the engine off is due to the brake booster.

I believe the pads start out with a thickness of about 11 mm and should be replaced before reaching 1 mm. So, you are in-between. If you are handy, you might consider trying to lube the slide pins. New pads for the front are fairly inexpensive depending on brand...certainly under $100. And not that hard to do yourself. You might consider, as VBdenny suggested, just having new pads installed, slides lubed, new shims installed. Rotors would be the most expensive but if you do not have a shimmy in the steering wheel when braking, they are probably good.

And finally, realize that you are suffering from Lex-itus as we who own one of these fine machines often do. You probably would not give this creaking a second thought if this were a Ford or Chevy but a Lexus, especially an LS? Unthinkable. I know, I suffer the Lexus OCD too.

[Exhaustgases]

If the car is static when this happens then likely your pads are worn and the fluid is following the master cylinder back, and pulling the caliper pistons with it. So does the pedal have lots of movement before you feel the brakes contacting? In the old days drum brakes would make that sort of noise when adjusted very loose. I have never heard disk brakes do that. The slide lugs on the pads could make noise and that's why some use a brake grease on them, and maybe even a very slight movement would cause them to creak a bit.

Have you figured out which side is making the noise?

It could also be that the caliper mounting bolts are loose and the application pressure is moving it ever so slightly to cause movement and the noise. Also look for cracks on everything down there. If the rotor was cracked it could creak I would think.

[VBdenny]

None of these repairs are really very expensive. Toyota brake pads for the LS400 are available online (I'd paid $70 US) or at the parts department at a dealer (worst option). I would use only real Toyota brake pads. Certainly there are many fine options on these but sticking with factory is the best option I've found. I will also point out that aftermarket pads do not come with the factory shims which causes many shade tree'ers to dump them altogether. You actually reuse the same shims (2 on each outboard side) and the wishbone spring. Some service people take the time to clean the part, apply the proper lubrication, clean and lubricate the slide pins (they are easy to remove) and reinstall everything to factory specifications.

Being rather heavy vehicles, it is not uncommon to overheat the brakes on these cars. Once overheated, the rotor is pretty much done for those that like smooth brakes. Like Bob suggested, check the rotors carefully. I've found Lexus brakes to be pretty easy to work on with basic tools.

I replace my brake pads when they reach 5-6mm

[Exhaustgases]

And check for cracks and looseness on all the parts associated with the brake calipers. That is not a normal problem.

There is creaking when the squeaker rubs on the rotor, but that's a moving car and not with new pads.

[Big Iron]

Thanks for the tips guys, lots of good suggestions and information. My intuition leads me to believe it's likely a lubrication issue. The odd thing is that both sides make the noise.

Just for fun, I figured I'd call the Toyota dealer before I ordered the parts. I was surprised when they quoted $280 for the front brake job (OEM pads, resurfacing of rotors). The shop where I do my work is over an hour away and I'm short on time right now, so I'm going to have them do it.

[VBdenny]

For $280 and no aggravation, I'd sure go that route. Pads will cost $70 aggravation is much more expensive.

[Mont]

My GS300 has a similar issue... a clanking sound when the brake pedal is pressed. I had it checked out and the lower control arm bushings are shot, so the joints are hitting metal. I thought it was a brake issue, but I was wrong. You may want to look into this to be sure you are spending your money in the right place. Hopefully, your situation will be resolved with a brake job because the lower control arms are pricey - dealers don't sell just the bushings. :(

[Big Iron]

For $280 and no aggravation, I'd sure go that route. Pads will cost $70 aggravation is much more expensive.

That's the way I saw it :)

My GS300 has a similar issue... a clanking sound when the brake pedal is pressed. I had it checked out and the lower control arm bushings are shot, so the joints are hitting metal. I thought it was a brake issue, but I was wrong. You may want to look into this to be sure you are spending your money in the right place. Hopefully, your situation will be resolved with a brake job because the lower control arms are pricey - dealers don't sell just the bushings. :(

Remember that this is happening when the vehicle is in park (not moving).

[Big Iron]

So I dropped it off at the local Toyota dealership for an early oil change, with which they said they'd take a look at no additional cost. The tech confirmed the noise and lubed everything up, but the noise persisted. They're recommending replacement calipers at an additional cost of $1,000, so it looks like I'll be tackling this issue in-house (doing it myself :D).

Looks like the caliper rebuild it part number is 04479-50091, which includes everything to rebuild both front calipers. This job is a PITA which I'd rather hire out for, anyone know a source for OEM rebuilds at a decent price? I can do the R&R.

[Exhaustgases]

Any auto parts place will likely have them and the cost will not even come close to the 1k mark. Check on rockauto

[Big Iron]

Thanks for the tip, but I prefer sticking with Toyota OEM. I believe their OEM quality is a large part of the reason my FJ80 is still going strong after 245k (my LS400 is only at 180k) :)

[Exhaustgases]

Well with all the outsourcing in all manufacturing OEM pretty much means nothing now. Now if you get NOS OEM that was made in Japan then you have something. Your best inexpensive bet is reman slash rebuilt OEM parts. And since items like calipers are a no brainer RandR deal, I wouldn't worry about it. When I get brake pads for cars I sometimes get the cheapy ones and on one non LS car I can get 50K miles out of them. I don't over do the brake pedal like most do.